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azureglo

Colourcoats drying time

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I have decided to think about an alternative to my beloved Mr Color and Mr Paint and in a moment of patriotic zeal ,I  thought about using locally produced paint, especially having been wowed by Stew Dapples sex god apron outfit at Telford, it's time for some Colourcoats. Now I am familiar with its previous incarnation through White Ensign and have no qualms about the quality and colour matches which from what I can see are pretty exacting.

 

My interest is in the speed of drying, I'm spoilt as Mr Color/Paint +Mr Leveling dries rock hard and Tamiya tape ready in 30-120 minutes on average in my temperature and humidity controlled spray room. What kind of drying times are folk getting in the real world, especially with their dedicated thinner? Has anyone tried it with the terabine type drying accelerators like Rustins for instance?

 

Some real world experiences  and links to some results/build threads would be good. To give a benchmark , in my latest build below, I did a 1/72 BoB 109E by spraying RLM 65 at lunchtime , masking the underside and RLM 02 at 16:00 and then applying splinter tamiya/oramask 810 masks and doing the RLM 71 two hours later and then finally at 21:00 gloss coating it, no tape lift whatsoever. Ideally thats the kind of speed I'd be looking to replicate.

 

 

Again it's no big deal as I'm happy with my paints but unhappy that its made many thousands ( or even hundreds) of miles away and shipped all the way here with all the harm that entails. that and supporting small local producers.

 

Anil

 

 

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I would never expect that kind of drying times with any enamel paint.  I think that I will stick with quality and colour matching as my priorities.

Edited by Graham Boak

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11 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

I would never expect that kind of drying times with any enamel paint.  I think that I will stick with quality and colour matching as my priorities.

+1

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37 minutes ago, azureglo said:

Ideally thats the kind of speed I'd be looking to replicate.

Never going to happen. Enamels plus cellulose thinners plus overnight in the airing cupboard before you handle it. I'd allow 24 hours minimum before putting masking tape anywhere near it.

Colourcoats advises 6 hours before applying another coat, with enamels you can apply another coat before the first coat is fully cured, but I wouldn't handle or mask over the first coat until it has cured.

Work on something else whilst the paint dries.

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5 hours ago, Dave Swindell said:

Never going to happen. Enamels plus cellulose thinners plus overnight in the airing cupboard before you handle it. I'd allow 24 hours minimum before putting masking tape anywhere near it.

Colourcoats advises 6 hours before applying another coat, with enamels you can apply another coat before the first coat is fully cured, but I wouldn't handle or mask over the first coat until it has cured.

Work on something else whilst the paint dries.

Do you use colourcoats?

 

As for the "never going to happen" type of replies I beg to differ, I was drying and masking the notoriously slow drying Xtracolor enamels a few years back using their XDTT thinner + rustins paint drier (terabine) in 1-2 hours max at room temperature and 30-45 minutes in a a food dehydrator ( a US model car builder practise and a scaled down version of our slow bake enclosures at work).  I changed to Mr Color/Paint as I found their colours looked better to my eye ( I'm told the Xtracolor are more accurate tho'). I have heard hearsay that both Xtracolor and Colourcoats are made by the same factory so would surmise Terabine would work for them as well?

 

As the half owner of car restoration business with two dedicated spray shops, I'm more aware of paints etc than most folk so no more opinions please, I can get plenty of those in the pub.

 

What I'm looking for is some constructive input from anyone who uses actually uses colourcoats and has cracked the slow drying times as starting point for my own experiments.

 

Anil

 

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Colourcoats, WEM, Xtracolor, Humbrol, Revell, Precision, Compucolour, Airfix, ModelMaster, Daco, Tamiya - all enamels I've used, no siginficant difference in drying times.

Matt and satin paints are touch dry quicker than gloss but don't fully cure any faster.

If you're using enamels and masking between coats accept that you're only going to get one colour done a day and you'll get good results.

If you're doing a soft edge camo freehand and can avoid handling the first colour you could get 2 colours done.

You're never going to do a blitzbuild paintjob with enamels.

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I have used the Colourcoats enamels for quite a few projects recently. Originally I was using Mr Color Thinners to thin them, yes Mr CT works a treat, and found that the paints were touch dry in around 20 minutes and I could mask up in a couple of hours (but usually waited until the next day as I do with MRP and Mr C anyway). Since those earlier projects I have acquired the Colourcoats naphtha based thinners and have found that the drying times are very similar to the above. I have also found that initially I was mixing too much paint up for use as the Colourcoats covered the surface a lot better than I had expected so I now mix up less. If I've used the Colourcoats Thinners I usually pour the excess back into the pots and haven't had any problems doing that so far.

While I am still using my lacquer based acrylics (MRP and Mr C) on many projects i am now buying and using Colourcoats more regularly for the newer subjects that I don't have paints for. I find they are generally quite hard wearing but can be scratched if I'm clumsy, that could be down to the thinness of coats that I am using. My previous experience of enamel paints was with another well known UK Brand and they took weeks to dry off and that put me off enamel paints in general, these Colourcoats are a million miles away from  those and I'm very happy with them.

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2 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said:

Colourcoats, WEM, Xtracolor, Humbrol, Revell, Precision, Compucolour, Airfix, ModelMaster, Daco, Tamiya - all enamels I've used, no siginficant difference in drying times.

Matt and satin paints are touch dry quicker than gloss but don't fully cure any faster.

If you're using enamels and masking between coats accept that you're only going to get one colour done a day and you'll get good results.

If you're doing a soft edge camo freehand and can avoid handling the first colour you could get 2 colours done.

You're never going to do a blitzbuild paintjob with enamels.

That's what my previous experience with enamels was too but honestly I have masked off Colourcoats within a couple of hours and had no problems. If I can find the photos for that build I will post the photos up.

i know the sceptics will think I'm just saying all that because I'm a mate of Jamie's and sell his paints but I wouldn't get involved in this discussion if I didn't believe in what I'm saying.

 

Duncan B

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2 minutes ago, Duncan B said:

I have used the Colourcoats enamels for quite a few projects recently. Originally I was using Mr Color Thinners to thin them, yes Mr CT works a treat, and found that the paints were touch dry in around 20 minutes and I could mask up in a couple of hours (but usually waited until the next day as I do with MRP and Mr C anyway). Since those earlier projects I have acquired the Colourcoats naphtha based thinners and have found that the drying times are very similar to the above. I have also found that initially I was mixing too much paint up for use as the Colourcoats covered the surface a lot better than I had expected so I now mix up less. If I've used the Colourcoats Thinners I usually pour the excess back into the pots and haven't had any problems doing that so far.

While I am still using my lacquer based acrylics (MRP and Mr C) on many projects i am now buying and using Colourcoats more regularly for the newer subjects that I don't have paints for. I find they are generally quite hard wearing but can be scratched if I'm clumsy, that could be down to the thinness of coats that I am using. My previous experience of enamel paints was with another well known UK Brand and they took weeks to dry off and that put me off enamel paints in general, these Colourcoats are a million miles away from  those and I'm very happy with them.

Hey Duncan, thanks for this., especially from a modeller who work I follow & admire! The fact you're comparing them to Mr Paint/Color is also reassuring

 

The part about the thinned paint lasting is good to know as  I pre thin and rebottle all my paint otherwise my paid for builds would back up instantly. From what you said I'm going to order up a batch of Colorcoats and try the Terabine/de-hydator. Re the scratching, its interesting since I moved from Stynylres to Mr Surfacer 1500 as my primer Mr P/C seems a lot more delicate .

 

BTW I think you were talking about Xtracolor, they were my no 2 choice for a local producer and I managed to crack their drying time but their WW2 stuff just looks "flat" to me- totally subjective as I hear they are very well matched to things like Merrick et al. maybe its the "scale effect" thing which I'm not getting

 

Anil

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14 minutes ago, Duncan B said:

That's what my previous experience with enamels was too but honestly I have masked off Colourcoats within a couple of hours and had no problems. If I can find the photos for that build I will post the photos up.

i know the sceptics will think I'm just saying all that because I'm a mate of Jamie's and sell his paints but I wouldn't get involved in this discussion if I didn't believe in what I'm saying.

 

Duncan B

No need to post anything my friend, I have perved many of your builds!! And Jamie and his wife seem like genuinely good folk who deserve our support. That Stew Dapple character on the other hand needs to be closely watched...BTW the speed is critical for me as I sell on 3-5 1/72 a month to order and stuff needs to built, primed,painted and boxed up in 5-7 days...

 

Cheers

 

A

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Yes, best keep an eye on that Stewed geezer!

 

I have had a quick look at some of my builds where I used Colourcoats and this is a fine example of multiple coats going on in a shorter time than many enamel users might expect. I was using Montex vinyl masks for the National Insignia. The work below was airbrushed, I can't comment on hairy stick drying times as I don't do that.

 

Photo 1: Base colour Colourcoats Chrome Yellow. Photo taken at 1248 on the 20th November

IMG_4792-M.jpg

 

Photo 2: Insignia Blue on White base applied using Montex Mask. Photo taken at 1143 on the 21st November

IMG_4793-M.jpg

 

Photo 3: Wing National markings completed and mask removed,  painted using Colourcoats . Photo taken at 1412 on the 21st November

IMG_4794-L.jpg

 

Possibly not what you might expect from enamel paints?

 

Duncan B

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10 minutes ago, Duncan B said:

Yes, best keep an eye on that Stewed geezer!

 

I have had a quick look at some of my builds where I used Colourcoats and this is a fine example of multiple coats going on in a shorter time than many enamel users might expect. I was using Montex vinyl masks for the National Insignia.

 

Photo 1: Base colour Colourcoats Chrome Yellow. Photo taken at 1248 on the 20th November

 

 

Possibly not what you might expect from enamel paints?

 

Duncan B

Outstanding! Not just the build but the facts backing it up. Now Montex use that hideous black vinyl that has what seems like superglue gel as adhesive. If the Colourcoats can shrug off this demon glue in a few hours, Tamiya masking sheet and Oramask 810 wont even be noticed.

 

Great stuff  and answers my question perfectly, shows a superb build and all the facts to make an informed decision This is what forums should always be like!  I just need to run down my Mr P/C stocks and then onto the colourcoats- I wager the Rustins driers will also result in sub hour drying times. 

 

Many thanks Duncan for taking the time to help a fellow modeller, hopefully you'll be at Telford 2019 ? ( watching Stew), a pint or two will be bought!

 

Anil

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If I qualify by saying that brush painting is a whole other ballgame - if airbrushing with a fairly warm thinner (e.g. cellulose or our's) then I can/do mask over with Tamiya tape in around 20mins. I have (using matt Colourcoats and cellulose) masked and sprayed 3 colours within 45mins 100% successfully more than once before but realistically I seldom punish myself like that.

 

Brush painting is much rougher on the paint below and needs much longer between coats but airbrushing puts a much thinner coat on which is fit to mask and spray over very quickly.

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58 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

If I qualify by saying that brush painting is a whole other ballgame - if airbrushing with a fairly warm thinner (e.g. cellulose or our's) then I can/do mask over with Tamiya tape in around 20mins. I have (using matt Colourcoats and cellulose) masked and sprayed 3 colours within 45mins 100% successfully more than once before but realistically I seldom punish myself like that.

 

Brush painting is much rougher on the paint below and needs much longer between coats but airbrushing puts a much thinner coat on which is fit to mask and spray over very quickly.

Fair point, I hadn't noticed that the requirement was for brush painting. My work above was obviously airbrushed.

 

Duncan B

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I spray all my enamels, regardless of brand, thinned with a 50-50 mix of mineral spirits and lacquer thinner and have for years. The lacquer thinner seems to accelerate the curing time (Note: Enamels cure, not "dry.") with no ill effect. But my rule has always been, regardless of the type of paint or thinner, if I can still smell it on the model, it's not yet fully cured/dry. You can also accelerate curing/drying time with a homemade paint dryer. Here are a couple of ways to build one:

 

http://www.ninfinger.org/models/tools/dryer.html

 

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/tools_techniques_and_reference_materials/f/18/t/146050.aspx

 

Or, if you are made of money, you can opt for one of these beauties: https://www.micromark.com/Dr.-Dry-Booth

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2 hours ago, Duncan B said:

Fair point, I hadn't noticed that the requirement was for brush painting. My work above was obviously airbrushed.

 

Duncan B

Yo,

 

I don't think brush painting was stipulated and if Mr Paint is a current product used by OP then I assume airbrush is the order of the day.

 

I only qualified because as noted above our tins do say rather a long time, but I know Graham Boak who contributed above at least is normally a brush painter so the question of time has two very different answers depending on application method :)

 

As you know, I am not blessed with patience so it's airbrush all the way for me

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15 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

If I qualify by saying that brush painting is a whole other ballgame - if airbrushing with a fairly warm thinner (e.g. cellulose or our's) then I can/do mask over with Tamiya tape in around 20mins. I have (using matt Colourcoats and cellulose) masked and sprayed 3 colours within 45mins 100% successfully more than once before but realistically I seldom punish myself like that.

 

Brush painting is much rougher on the paint below and needs much longer between coats but airbrushing puts a much thinner coat on which is fit to mask and spray over very quickly.

Just what I needed to hear: Just had to do some remedial work on my current build during final assembly, had sprayed the gear doors of my 109E RLM 78 by mistake...a coat of 50% super uv ct matt and 50% Mr Color RLm 65 went on and was dry enough  to continue assembly in 15 minutes. I really need speed like that for my paid builds where I really can't wait a day for one part to dry, accidental paint chips etc as there are usually 2-3 models in production simultaneously

14 hours ago, Duncan B said:

Fair point, I hadn't noticed that the requirement was for brush painting. My work above was obviously airbrushed.

 

Duncan B

Mea Culpa gents, I only airbrush through my various H&S, Iwata and Badgers. I just use brushes for touch ups and pilot painting. 

 

Thanks again both

 

Anil

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10 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

As you know, I am not blessed with patience so it's airbrush all the way for me

I rarely airbrush because all the faffing on takes so much time and effort that it is quicker and easier to pick up a brush and get on with it.  Maybe I just don't have the patience to airbrush.  Maybe if I made larger models the balance would be different.

 

Drying time isn't a problem, there are plenty of other models to be getting on with.

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