Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Anyone know which unit this Phantom belonged to ? I know it was an early Gull grey over white phantom that was repainted in theater. That explains the bad paint erosion on the sides. The codes were either painted over or zapped out of the photo by censors ? Help is graciously accepted. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fubar57 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Some info here... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskey Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 https://www.arcair.com/Gal3/2301-2400/Gal2386-F-4C-Roberts/00.shtm 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 7 minutes ago, fubar57 said: Some info here... Thats a good link i forgot about. It is the same plane, many thanks. 👍🏻 Dennis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said: Thats a good link i forgot about. It is the same plane, many thanks. 👍🏻 Dennis Sorry to smash your thoughts, Dennis, but it isn't the same. Te one you posted is the th "64-08xx" serial range. The BM link shows a "63-7XXX" machine. There were also no codes. Martin Edited June 24, 2019 by RidgeRunner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 28 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said: Sorry to smash your thoughts, Dennis, but it isn't the same. Te one you posted is the th "64-08xx" serial range. The BM link shows a "63-7XXX" machine. There were also no codes. Martin Dang ...? I will have to try and figure the plane out, that or maybe just make a generic Phantom and weather it accordingly. I don't suppose you have any clue as to what it might be ? Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Sorry Dennis but F-4s are not my thing...... Not the thing to say on this forum! Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 26 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said: Sorry Dennis but F-4s are not my thing...... Not the thing to say on this forum! BURN THE HERETIC! 😀 The pic is smallish, but she looks like 63-7489, a 480th TFS / 35th TFW F-4C. HTH, Andre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 Hmm i wonder if it either 64-0679 or 64-0699 ? Either way if i opt to build one from this era and unit i know what it should look like it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said: Hmm i wonder if it either 64-0679 or 64-0699 ? Either way if i opt to build one from this era and unit i know what it should look like it ? Alright - I have managed to rummage through some more of my references. Lou Drendels "..And Kill MiGs" (ISBN-13: 978-0897470568) has a photo and kill description (p.11) and color profile (p.48) of the Flaky Phantom, but just the date July 14th 1966 and crew William Swender and Duane Buttell, and no serial. Donald J. McCarthy, Jr's "MiG Killers: A Chronology of US Air Victories in Vietnam 1965 - 1973" (ISBN-13: 978-1580071369), however, confirms the serial of 63-7489. So, 63-7489 it is! "See, honey? That's why I never get rid of a book..." HTH, Andre EDIT: should you wish to make a model of her in Gentlemen's Scale: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/print-scale-72-192-f-4-phantom--986151 Should you prefer 1/48th: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/aeromaster-48-764-early-phantoms-in-combat-ptii--174450 Edited June 24, 2019 by Hook links to sheets added 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Hook said: BURN THE HERETIC! 😀 The pic is smallish, but she looks like 63-7489, a 480th TFS / 35th TFW F-4C. HTH, Andre The picture in Dennis' first post? Definetly a 64-08...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskey Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) According to Peter E. Davies in USAF F-4 Phantom MiG Killer 1965-68 the aircraft in question is 64-0660, a triple MiG killer.The same aircraft in the previous link I posted and this one as well. 64-0660 is an odd one however as I have one source that states "F-4C 64-0660(15th TFW, 47th TFS)hit by SA-2 over the Ninh Binh bridge, North Vietnam. Capt Chambless M.Chesnutt KIA. 1th Lt Michael D.Chwan KIA. Sept 30, 1965." A few F-4's out there made it a long time in their lives with various units, liveries, and schemes. Fortunately there are a few decal manufacturers that have covered some of those aircraft in their different colors as well, this one of them. I've had plans to do this one, and others, throughout their careers. Edited June 24, 2019 by whiskey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Hook said: See, honey? That's why I never get rid of a book..." I have tried to explain that to SWMBO as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Ranger Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) I posted the photo on the 72ndscaleUSmilair Yahoo group and received a couple of replies. From Norm Filer: "That is clearly one of the first delivered F-4Cs. They were painted with the Gray over White scheme with full sized markings. When the Two Greens and Tan over very light Gray scheme came around they were not stripped and properly prepared for repaint. What you see is the results. I can't tell from the photo if it has the flat wing of the F-4B, but it could be one of the few straight Navy F-4Bs loaned to the Air Force prior to delivery of the real F-4Cs." From Will Alcott: "It's identified in Squadron's "And Kill MiGs" as F-4C Flown by Bill Swendner and Duane Buttell on their MiG killing mission of 14 July 1966, though the profile does not show a serial on the tail. Osprey's "USAF F-4 Phantom II MiG Killers 1965–68" further identifies it as F-4C-18-MC 63-7489 of Captain W J Swender and 1Lt D A Buttell Jr, 480th TFS/35th TFW, Da Nang, July 1966. The Osprey profile shows curved leading edge USAF-style inner pylons, whereas the photo and Squadron profile show the straight edged Navy style used by the earliest USAF F-4s. The F-4C-18-MC was the 4th block produced. Assuming the blocks were produced sequentially, this would have been among the first 121 USAF Phantoms built as C models." Hope this helps. Edited June 24, 2019 by Space Ranger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 10 hours ago, RidgeRunner said: The picture in Dennis' first post? Definetly a 64-08...... There’s a „6“ visible on the fuselage side, at least it looks like one to me, and from its position I‘d say it’s the first of the last three - which would make it a 64-06xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) 40 minutes ago, tempestfan said: There’s a „6“ visible on the fuselage side, at least it looks like one to me, and from its position I‘d say it’s the first of the last three - which would make it a 64-06xx Agreed, it could be. Edited June 25, 2019 by RidgeRunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 12 hours ago, whiskey said: According to Peter E. Davies in USAF F-4 Phantom MiG Killer 1965-68 the aircraft in question is 64-0660, a triple MiG killer.The same aircraft in the previous link I posted and this one as well. 64-0660 is an odd one however as I have one source that states "F-4C 64-0660(15th TFW, 47th TFS)hit by SA-2 over the Ninh Binh bridge, North Vietnam. Capt Chambless M.Chesnutt KIA. 1th Lt Michael D.Chwan KIA. Sept 30, 1965." A few F-4's out there made it a long time in their lives with various units, liveries, and schemes. Fortunately there are a few decal manufacturers that have covered some of those aircraft in their different colors as well, this one of them. I've had plans to do this one, and others, throughout their careers. For some reason 64-0660 is quoted as lost over Vietnam in several sources, however she sure survived the war to serve with several units, last of which was 107 FIG of the NY ANG and is today preserved as a gate guardian. I have several pictures of this aircraft in various post Vietnam markings. Guess that she was confused with another aircraft and the information got copied and pasted over the years. On 6/24/2019 at 1:37 AM, Corsairfoxfouruncle said: Anyone know which unit this Phantom belonged to ? I know it was an early Gull grey over white phantom that was repainted in theater. That explains the bad paint erosion on the sides. The codes were either painted over or zapped out of the photo by censors ? Help is graciously accepted. Dennis The codes were not painted over or removed, the aircraft carries the standard USAF markings of the day, before the introduction of tail codes indicating the unit or the base: USAF on top and serial number below this. Problem is that they are very hard to discern in the picture 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Also, most likely just the SEA upper colors were field applied on those early birds, with the lower surfaces remaining Gloss White. Some pics of these aircraft show the large USN style national marking under the wing. Cheers, Andre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 @Corsairfoxfouruncle Dennis, note the serial is smaller (standard SEA size) than shown on the Z-M build. M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Giorgio N said: For some reason 64-0660 is quoted as lost over Vietnam in several sources, however she sure survived the war to serve with several units, last of which was 107 FIG of the NY ANG and is today preserved as a gate guardian. I have several pictures of this aircraft in various post Vietnam markings. Guess that she was confused with another aircraft and the information got copied and pasted over the years. McDonnell F-4C-21-MC Phantom II/64-0660 1966: USAF 390th TFS (35th TFW). 5/12/1966: Credited with shooting down a MiG-17 over North Vietnam. 1967: USAF 480th TFS (366th TFW). 5/14/1967: Credited with shooting down a MiG-17 over North Vietnam. 6/5/1967: Credited with shooting down a MiG-17 over North Vietnam. 1968: USAF 35th TFS (347th TFW). 1975-79: USAF 310th TFTS (58th TFTW). 1983-87: New York ANG 136th FIS. 12/7/1987: Struck off charge. Currently preserved at Niagara Falls APT, NY. Edited June 25, 2019 by RidgeRunner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskey Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 6 hours ago, Giorgio N said: For some reason 64-0660 is quoted as lost over Vietnam in several sources, however she sure survived the war to serve with several units, last of which was 107 FIG of the NY ANG and is today preserved as a gate guardian. I have several pictures of this aircraft in various post Vietnam markings. Guess that she was confused with another aircraft and the information got copied and pasted over the years. That would be why I said it has had several markings throughout her career and are produced by several manufacturers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Ranger Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) The aircraft's Individual Record Card (IARC) would confirm its history. For those who are not aware, copies of these cards are available from the U.S. Air Force Historical Research Agency at Maxwell Air Force Base, Alabama. Edited June 25, 2019 by Space Ranger 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 Many tanks to everyone that has helped so far. I have opted to use this info for a future build in 1/48 scale. Im currently working on an F-4D and trying to determine antenna fit using a different thread, this one in fact. m hoping some of the knowledgable people will again chime in ? Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now