JohnT Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 I have been interested in him since stumbling across his diary published as The Lonely Warrior when I was about 12 and saw it in a pile of paperbacks for sale in Woolworths, Edinburgh. Normally I would have walked on by the adult book section but the Hurricane on the cover with the flaming 109 caught my attention Anyway fast forward more decades than I want to mention and I’d like to model his Hurricane. I can find photos of his Spitfire from post Battle of Britain period but not much on any Hurricane that he flew. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) OK, I happened to have "Lonely Warrior" on my desk from prior investigation of his Spitfires. He joined 145 Squadron in mid August '40, and on 8 Sept participated in a combat which resulted in a (collective) damaged claim against a Do 215. He was flying Hurricane Mk I '2720' that day, but at that time he seemed to fly whatever was to be had. On 30 October he flew Hurri '7675' (several serials had preceded this one) and after that appears to fly this one consistently, including for two 109 confirmed kills on 1 and 6 November. This continued to be his preferred aircraft until the squadron equipped with Spitfires, beginning in January. He does fly some others, but clearly 7675 is his regular. Later he seemed to favor the individual letter 'M', but I don't know whether this aircraft was M. Edited June 24, 2019 by gingerbob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
303sqn Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Those are only the numeric part of the serial number. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) Yes, but it is a lot more than no response at all! (It is how the ORB recorded them.) I'm not as fluent in Hurricane, so I leave finding the letter up to someone else. Edited June 24, 2019 by gingerbob 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 hour ago, gingerbob said: He joined 145 Squadron in mid August '40, and on 8 Sept participated in a combat which resulted in a (collective) damaged claim against a Do 215. He was flying Hurricane Mk I '2720' that day, but at that time he seemed to fly whatever was to be had. P2720 was at 145 Sq then, see here for more, @JohnT the other photos may help in a 'best guess' as the the appearance of a 145 Sq plane, so maybe of use. N2720 is the only other that fits. Those who can get to their books maybe able to help, @Graham Boak and @Seahawk are good for these details. HTH 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Sorry, I'm in Bergen without my library. Damned shortsighted of me, I know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 The Hurricane that Offenberg had his first success in was P2720. If you're interested in modelling a Hurricane that he flew then the world is nearly your oyster as far as 145 goes. 145 didn't allocate aircraft to individual pilots except senior pilots and especially flight commanders. As a result Offenberg flew a dizzying amount of Hurricanes. A bit like 238 Sqn, there aren't an enormous amount of photos of the squadron's aircraft from the BoB period. But a safe bet for an Offenberg aircraft to model is P3221. This was the mount of his flight commander Flt Lt Adrian "Ginger" Boyd and Jean flew this aircraft on several occasions. It featured at some time an unusual "blown" canopy but I'll leave that to the technical boffins to attribute a date to when this was fitted. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 41 minutes ago, Smithy said: But a safe bet for an Offenberg aircraft to model is P3221. This was the mount of his flight commander Flt Lt Adrian "Ginger" Boyd and Jean flew this aircraft on several occasions. you didn't check my link did you These decals are on an Xtradecal Hurricane BoB 75th anniversary sheet too... Of course in the link I didn't make the 'K' connection.... though comparing shots, I don't think this is the same plane, note the fin stripes are different 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 15 minutes ago, Troy Smith said: you didn't check my link did you No I didn't, sorry Troy! It's summer hols here and I've been spending most of my time averting World War III with my offspring when not fishing so haven't been reading here much The recent Red Kite volume 2 of the BoB Combat Archive shows P3221 as per the last photo. As an aside and completely irrelevant, the chap in the cockpit is not Boyd. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 The letter K is in two different styles, and the lower aircraft has anti-glare shield, which I suspect is not a unit-level fit. Two different aircraft in my book. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 9 hours ago, Troy Smith said: N2720 is the only other that fits. Those who can get to their books maybe able to help, @Graham Boak and @Seahawk are good for these details. According to Air Britain, N2718 to N2729 went "To Yugoslav AF direct" so N2720 prob not a candidate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Smithy said: The recent Red Kite volume 2 of the BoB Combat Archive shows P3221 as per the last photo. I'd suggest that wrong, as in this Image I can just see the P3321 especially in the lower shot, I can see P3*2* pretty well Are there any more details on the canopy? It look like that standard frame with the side blisters seen on PR Spitfires? Not something I have given much thought before..... and now I'm curious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Troy Smith said: I'd suggest that wrong, as in this Image I can just see the P3321 I'd be terrifically surprised if it's P3321. P3321 was shot down by Me109s off Dunkirk during an evening patrol shortly after 1900 on the 29th May being flown by P/O Courtney of 151 Sqn. He bailed out with wounds to the neck and right leg and was picked up by HMS Shearwater, with the aircraft being lost. Boyd's SO-K was P3221. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudioN Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 9 hours ago, Troy Smith said: Are there any more details on the canopy? It look like that standard frame with the side blisters seen on PR Spitfires? Not something I have given much thought before..... and now I'm curious. Here. Blister hood fitted by Flt. Lt. Boyd to P3221:SO-K but, as it was not an approved modification, he was ordered to revert to a standard canopy. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 10 hours ago, Smithy said: Boyd's SO-K was P3221. indeed... a definite DOH! moment. Not fully paying attention. To clarify, the images of SO-K with the clear view hood I don't believe are the other SO-K pic I posted (and the SO is not visible) the image was credited as being 145 Sq. And thanks for the actual personnel and squadron background input, all adds to the overall picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 17 hours ago, Smithy said: 145 didn't allocate aircraft to individual pilots except senior pilots and especially flight commanders. As a result Offenberg flew a dizzying amount of Hurricanes. Except that, as I said in Post 2, from the end of October into January he very consistently flew one aircraft, with different ones here and there. Assuming, of course, that the ORB is accurate. (Some are very good, some are very bad, some appear good until you pay close enough attention.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudioN Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Troy Smith said: To clarify, the images of SO-K with the clear view hood I don't believe are the other SO-K pic I posted (and the SO is not visible) the image was credited as being 145 Sq. Assuming it is 'K' at all. I'd rather guess 'V'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 hour ago, gingerbob said: Except that, as I said in Post 2, from the end of October into January he very consistently flew one aircraft, with different ones here and there. By which time he was an experienced member of 145 and was considered a senior pilot, hence earning the benefit of having a regular aircraft. During the official BoB period which I was referring to he was considered a junior pilot and that is why he flew a large number of aircraft. I have a large number of ORBs and 145's isn't terrible by any stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 No, I wasn't implying that it was, just pointing out that even these "best" sources (or people like me drawing on them) aren't to be trusted implicitly. I was also thinking (without having carefully gone through the earlier period) that when things were more frenzied it was only natural to have more variety of aircraft flown, in addition to your point of him being "the new guy" initially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudioN Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Smithy said: By which time he was an experienced member of 145 and was considered a senior pilot, hence earning the benefit of having a regular aircraft. During the official BoB period which I was referring to he was considered a junior pilot and that is why he flew a large number of aircraft. 44 minutes ago, gingerbob said: I was also thinking (without having carefully gone through the earlier period) that when things were more frenzied it was only natural to have more variety of aircraft flown, in addition to your point of him being "the new guy" initially. Actually, No. 145 Squadron was rested in mid-August 1940, that is, the CO and the three surviving pilots moved from Westhampnett, on the Channel coast, to airfields in the 13 Group area, first Drem, then Dyce. Only in October did No. 145 Sqn return south, to Tangmere. I assume Offenberg was posted in during the rest period as a 'green' pilot. About 40 days to learn how best to survive in the Battle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 True enough. Maybe they were still going on the adrenaline rush of recent weeks... yeah, that must be it! It is interesting, though, working through ORBs and seeing the differences not only in record-keeping, but in squadron "style". Some squadrons seem to have nearly everybody (except perhaps the new guy) flying the same aircraft steadily. Others have only the CO and flight leaders, and maybe a few other old hands, showing any tendency toward "their own" aircraft. Some COs make a habit of flying a new replacement aircraft on at least one before turning it over to others. Others keep an old faithful, sometimes even after it has become "out of date At the risk of crossing over into "other thread" territory, I'd still like to find out more about the Spit Vc in which Offenberg was killed. It was on a squadron's books well before any other Vc, and I bet there's an interesting story behind this, if only we could "hear it" at this late date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted June 30, 2019 Author Share Posted June 30, 2019 Guys first apology for not dropping back in to say thanks sooner but work and Mrs T had other designs on my spare time this week. All that’s hugely helpful and I fancy trying for the next BoB build using a 1/24 Trumpy Hurricane from the stash. Time to start planning and working out what I will need to do. Who knows the new place might have a roof on it by then too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 If you do choose to do P3221, just be aware that you don't need that unusual canopy, you can use a standard Hurricane canopy. Boyd only had the one with the blisters on for a particularly short time because it was a non-approved modification and he was ordered to have a standard canopy refitted. Looking forward to seeing the build when you get around to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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