junglierating Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) On 7/29/2019 at 5:06 PM, andyf117 said: He's not off to a great start, judging by what I've just seen in the current August issue, which I've just downloaded... ....beginning with the 'Press Release' on the editorial page, where one of the Guideline Publications titles is, apparently, Military Modelcarft International - embarrassing or what, not just a typo on the first page of your first issue, but in a company press release to boot! Skip ahead to page 44 and the 'Full Build Review' of the Airfix Westland Sea King HAR.3/Mk.43, where the boxtop is clearly pictured, but the article sub-title and product details under the boxtop photo both say 'Seaking HAR.3 Mk42' - incorrectly all one word, and the wrong sub-type... ....the second paragraph, starting "It's first deployment" doesn't make sense as it is - probably missing the word 'was' - and also it should be "Its", not "It's"... ....the incorrect one-word spelling of 'Seaking' continues throughout the review, which is also factually incorrect - apart from the Falklands deployments and assistance to our immediate neighbours, RAF Sea Kings didn't provide SAR cover outside of the UK; whilst the Royal Navy SAR version was the HU.5, not HAR.5, and they were Grey and Red, not Yellow, as implied... ....in addition, The Netherlands never operated Sea Kings; and the Royal Norwegian Air Force is incorrectly abbreviated to RNAF instead of RNorAF... ....back in the day, part of an editor's job was not only to edit his contributors' submissions, but also to check what they were talking/writing about for accuracy - 'fact-checking', in today's modern parlance... ....other errors noted in the first half of the issue include: rogue quote marks at the ends of some of the contents descriptions... ....further occurences of "it's" instead of "its"... ....publishing convention is that figures are expressed in words for less than ten, and digits for more than, but there's no consistency whatsoever - amongst others there are instances of '4' and 'four', and 'sixty six', and even '2-day' and 'one-day' in the same sentence... ....various instances of 'is' which really should be 'was' when referring to aircraft no longer in service, such as the Sea King, and the F-14 Tomcat - in the latter's build article, it starts as 'is', then changes to 'was'... ....and throughout that article, a distinct lack of editing makes it apparent that English is not the author's first language - eg., "I clarify a little the paint and make with vertical movements and clouds way randomly"... ....in the editor's own feature article there's a lack of capitals where they are appropriate - eg., "axis" instead of "Axis" and "allied" when it should be "Allied"; it also contains a lot of semi-colons in places where they're un-necessary and don't belong, along with improperly-used ones which should actually be full colons or commas... ....plus it has a few simple typos: "my" instead of "may", "read" instead of "ready", and "his" instead of "This" - the art is to not proof-read your own copy... ....I could possibly go on - but to be honest, after the Sea King article, I gave up... Ok haven't read it .....but it's a Sea King article ..who cares whoop whoop....ok you might have a point I'd best read it ....but still a....ok I'm jesting a bit...I'll get my 🧥😁 Edited July 30, 2019 by junglierating 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglierating Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Gotta luv this forum....there is definitely some comic remarks in it ....made I laff(zumerzet accent).😀 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Fox Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Scale Model World, now where I heard that name before?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick b Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 2 hours ago, tomf said: Thank you now you can see why I am not an editor..... However you would have thought a command of the English language was a prerequisite to work in publishing? We all look forward to the typos and grammatical errors in the new magazines 😂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Wow. Just wow. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 I haven't seen the magazine in question (but do intend buying it so I can have a look for myself) but Jeez that's an uncompromising welcome! Being Scottish I take it upon myself to debase the English language at every opportunity (just kidding but I know my written English isn't to A Level standard) so I am able to forgive some syntax errors but being a Modeller looking for inspiration I am primarily interested in the quality of the actual modelling on display which, I note, there has been no mention. Someone mentioned another magazine earlier in this thread that I used to subscribe to but over a period of time the quality of the modelling, the quality of the cover art (I remember the final straw being a poor representation of a FAA FG 1 Phantom that was quite appalling) and an inability to match the correct captions with the corresponding photos drove me nuts and I cancelled my subscription. I'm not sure I would pick up on all the grammatical errors highlighted above by more learned individuals than I (I have no idea when to correctly use a semi-colon and am too old to worry about it now) so will be making my judgment on the actual modelling content which is why I would be buying the magazine in the first place. Duncan B (feeling very conscious that I may have made some absolute howlers above and will incur the wrath of the Headmaster ) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vingtor Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 2 hours ago, andyf117 said: So was RNorAF ever an official abbreviation? No. Only RNAF, RNoAF, and now recently RNORAF. Mind that until 21 November 1944, when there were still two services, the abbreviation RNAF stood for Royal Norwegian Air Forces (plural). Then the Army and Navy Air Services merged into the Royal Norwegian Air Force. Occationally, one can see in British (and other foreign magazines) the name Kongelige Norske Luftforsvaret (KNL). This is completely inaccurate. In Norway, the official name is simply Luftforsvaret (meaning "air defence"). Nils 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaddad Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Latinbear said: that such criticism itself needs to be faultless. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vingtor Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Why is it that British modelling magazines use (nearly) the same name. Originally we had Scale Aircraft Modelling (SAM) started by Alan W. Hall. This sadly turned in in the 1990s, and at the same time Scale Aviation Modeller (SAM) was born. Within a few months, the original SAM was reborn, and we had two magazines abbreviated SAM - until the latter added "International" to its name, becoming SAMI. This worked well for many years. Then, earlier this year, the original SAM suddenly also added "International" to its name. No SAM magazine any more, but two SAMIs...... The latter name change was however reverted after a few months. My favorite modelling magazine for a couple of decades has been the French magazine Wing Master. Even though my French is lousy. Issued bi-monthly, this magazine has high quality modelling and aviation history articles. They also have German language editions. I would imagine that a corresponding English language magazine would be a best seller. Nils 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Before getting too carried away with grammatical "errors", I think people should read at least some the works of modern linguists such as the prolific and very readable David Crystal. What is "correct" grammatical use varies with time and surroundings, and many of the grammatical rules taught in postwar schools was taken from analogies in other languages (especially Latin) rather than based on what was actually relevant to English usage. Earlier schools too, but I suspect few such attendees are still modelling - my excuses to those who are. This is not to suggest a complete abandonment of all rules, as some of the more knuckle-grazing population may suggest, but some tolerance should be given to variations that do not affect understanding. The use of punctuation is something that does tend towards a matter of style rather than formal correctness. But volumes have been written on the subject, and I'm neither willing nor qualified to attempt one here. (Nor welcome, I suggest.) Personally, I buy the magazines for information, and agree that photos or articles that merely show kits made as they come in the box are of limited value. I rather suspect that the kind of conversion article once common is not seen nowadays largely because the need for such is vastly reduced. Why convert (say) a Mk.V Spitfire to a Mk.XII when you can buy a Mk.XII off the shelf? What is still relevant is the article that takes a kit of a subject and points out what can be done to make it appear rather more like the subject it purports to represent. So for me it is the articles by writers such as Paul Lucas and Brian Derbyshire (to name but two) that have encouraged me to resubscribe to Scale A/c Modelling and the lack of similar ones that make the competitors not worth buying. I can cope with the odd grammatical slip, but with all the modern software help available they should minimal in anything published. People are welcome to spot any in my postings on the web, which I see as a more informal source, but I do try... The problem that I do see is the publication of incorrect (or at least arguable) factual matter. It is ok saying that the editor will receive response via the web (though I suspect this doesn't always happen) but what about the poor reader some years down the line relying upon the publication for his information? Historically the solution to this has been a letter column, and I feel this is a serious omission from modern magazines. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latinbear Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 17 minutes ago, spaddad said: Why? Does this really need an answer? If someone is going to offer a critical appraisal of a person's skills with a language - or anything else for that matter - then it is incumbent upon the critic to hold themselves to a demonstrably higher standard. For example, imagine someone with a record of regularly crashing their car through carelessness criticising the driving skills of a person who has an impeccable driving record. The person whose driving is being critiqued by a proven poor quality driver might feel entitled to ask what gives the accident prone driver the right to offer advice to someone whose driving skills are clearly superior. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 40 minutes ago, Vingtor said: Occationally, one can see in British (and other foreign magazines) the name Kongelige Norske Luftforsvaret (KNL). This is completely inaccurate. In Norway, the official name is simply Luftforsvaret (meaning "air defence"). Nils Been there, done that, got told off, will not do it again (hopefully). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 grammar in learning is like tyranny in government - confound the bitch I'll never be her slave.” ― John Clare 1793 – 1864 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vingtor Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 10 hours ago, tomf said: If you do have any ideas or suggestions please do let me know. Please bring on articles on colours and markings from people like Paul Lucas and Dana Bell. This is the main reason why I subscribe to SAM. There are some people on Britmodeller as well who could supply information to the same high standard. Nils 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg B Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Gents, The new editor has only just sat behind that desk. No doubt the learning curve like in any new role or job is steep and a few commas here and there is not exactly justification to break out the torches and pitchforks. Save that until he gets his Spitfire marks confused please. And if if anyone would like to pick up mine or the other Mod’s grammar, feel free. Mike doesn’t care, Julien (not Julian) wonders “Wot his Nana has to to do with it”? And I have the keys to the naughty corner 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyf117 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: The problem that I do see is the publication of incorrect (or at least arguable) factual matter. It is ok saying that the editor will receive response via the web (though I suspect this doesn't always happen) but what about the poor reader some years down the line relying upon the publication for his information? Historically the solution to this has been a letter column, and I feel this is a serious omission from modern magazines. The opinion of a certain editor was that a 'letters page' should solely allow readers to ask for advice or information, and should never, ever, be used to point out errors and omissions in preceding issues - he refused to print apologies or corrections for inaccurracies that were brought to his attention, on the grounds that acknowledging mistakes would harm the publication's (and ultimately, his) reputation... ....other editors, however, commendably encouraged their readership's input in such a manner, showing less concern for their egos and more in the interests of accuracy and increasing everyone's knowledge... Edited July 30, 2019 by andyf117 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyf117 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, Greg B said: The new editor has only just sat behind that desk. No doubt the learning curve like in any new role or job is steep and a few commas here and there is not exactly justification to break out the torches and pitchforks. Save that until he gets his Spitfire marks confused please. And that's where the 'editor-in-chief' referred to in the aforementioned press release should have come in - part of that position's remit should surely be to supervise and oversee, especially to start with, and even after the new editor has become more established in his role... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 I feel I must comment: in the magazine in question there’s an article about the Airfix 1/48 Spitfire XIV. It’s by someone who’s first language is demonstrably not English. I frankly found it quite difficult to read (it didn’t help that the contributor’s opinions and comments are so different to my own about this kit). The contributor is identified by Chris Meddings as one of two new contributors. That, together with the facts that English is not his first language and he was given “a fairly short deadline by the editor” would, I would have thought, led the editorial team to carefully proof read the article before it went to print. This did not happen! I am so sorry to see SAM decline ... Jay Laverty did rather spoil it, and I’m sorry to say I sensed a more recent editor was drifting towards his style. I agree with Graham Boak’s last paragraph in post 35 that it would be nice to feel confident that factual errors in a magazine would be corrected in a subsequent edition. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Graham Boak said: Historically the solution to this has been a letter column, and I feel this is a serious omission from modern magazines. I did ask one current modelling editor about this and he said he didn’t get any letters to publish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vingtor Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jonny said: I feel I must comment: in the magazine in question there’s an article about the Airfix 1/48 Spitfire XIV. It’s by someone who’s first language is demonstrably not English. I frankly found it quite difficult to read (it didn’t help that the contributor’s opinions and comments are so different to my own about this kit). The contributor is identified by Chris Meddings as one of two new contributors. That, together with the facts that English is not his first language and he was given “a fairly short deadline by the editor” would, I would have thought, led the editorial team to carefully proof read the article before it went to print. This did not happen! I must admit that English is not my first language either. However, when submitting articles to British magazines, I insist on proof reading and "language laundry" by people who know the language and also who know about aircraft, aviation and modelling. Better delay an article a month or three than publish with lousy language and errors. When I submit om Britmodeller, however, the proof reading is all on my own risk..... Nils Edited July 30, 2019 by Vingtor 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Dave Fleming said: he said he didn’t get any letters to publish! I'd imagine any potential letter writers were too busy bitching on Britmodeller & like social media. The whole tone of this thread has disappointed me. I don't deny that it is obvious there is room for improvement judging by the comments, my copy won't arrive out here for several months yet, but to dissect the first edition under a new editor in such a pedantic fashion is some what OTT to my mind. Hell, its an enthusiasts magazine not the "Derivation of The English Language Monthly" or some highly learned academic publication that we could rightly expect perfection & total accuracy from. I can't help but feel we're loosing our way with this sort of attack & yes, I believe it went beyond objective criticism, into the realms of an attack. I had to wonder was it just my tinnitus I was hearing or was there the sound of an axe being ground? Steve. 14 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacificmustang Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) Well said Steve, and Graham. I don’t read the magazine but some of the criticism here has been ridiculously pedantic Bruce Edited July 31, 2019 by pacificmustang 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Without hinting at any specifics - if things that politicians in general said were held to such high standards and were systematically dissected for communications ambiguities and factual errors, we'd all have better politicians. I don't defend mistakes, but these serious flaws don't rank amongst my top 100,000 issues which gnaw at me. Either I have an abnormally troublesome life (which I doubt) or some perspective would be of benefit here. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 18 hours ago, andyf117 said: and proportionally there may have been less words "fewer" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 7 hours ago, stevehnz said: I'd imagine any potential letter writers were too busy bitching on Britmodeller & like social media. The whole tone of this thread has disappointed me. I don't deny that it is obvious there is room for improvement judging by the comments, my copy won't arrive out here for several months yet, but to dissect the first edition under a new editor in such a pedantic fashion is some what OTT to my mind. Hell, its an enthusiasts magazine not the "Derivation of The English Language Monthly" or some highly learned academic publication that we could rightly expect perfection & total accuracy from. I can't help but feel we're loosing our way with this sort of attack & yes, I believe it went beyond objective criticism, into the realms of an attack. I had to wonder was it just my tinnitus I was hearing or was there the sound of an axe being ground? Steve. Steve my tinnitus must be playing up too, well done for saying what I had been thinking but was too scared of the pitchforks to say. In a previous life I learned that sometimes a written assessment tells me more about the assessor than the subject. Duncan B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts