H and s evolution bubbling and spitting from paint cup can anyone help please?

[Antb]

Morning chaps 

 

Picked up my first airbrush yesterday and I'm so frustrated with it already. It's probably a really easy solution but I've spent ages trying to figure it out and quite frankly I'm really cheesed off. 

 

Got the brush home last night set it up and ran paint through it with no problems. After 20 minutes or so no paint was coming out so stripped it down to try and work out the issue. 

 

Should also mention at this stage I had bubbles in the paint cup which actually seemed to have been there right off the bat. 

 

Anyway i stripped it down cleaned it and rebuilt. Still nothing but serious bubbling in the paint cup again and bubbles were coming through the trigger area. 

 

I put it away for the night and had another go this morning. Stripped it down again and cleaned and 're built. Put some cleaner in the paint cup and massive blow back. The stuff spewed out of the paint cup and went everywhere. 

 

I'm completely new to this and frankly my excitement has disappeared. Can anyone help me out at all with a solution please? 

 

I bought the brush and compressor from Paul at little cars who I know is great but is at a show today and I'd love some info, so if you can help please let me know. 

 

Thanks in advance 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Antb

[Gorby]

Probably best summon @little-cars. He'll sort the problem out.

[BIG X]

Hi Ant - stress not - you'll get it sorted.  I have the same model and the bubbling sounds very much like a blockage.  I can offer a couple of tips that might help.  To prove this to yourself - fill the brush with some water and use that little yellow cap to seal the nozzle - this causes major blow back - like a 'bubble pipe'.  The yellow cap is designed to cause this effect and help clean the brush.  Possible tips...

 

• Neat airbrush cleaner for cleaning / followed by a diluted mix with water / followed by neat water - this saves on the expense of the airbrush cleaner - I use Vallejo BTW.  You can get water bottles with a 90 degree nozzle for the dilute water and neat water to live in - very handy and cheap enough.

 

• Get an egg cup or similar small container and pop a bit of airbrush cleaner in that.  Keep a couple of cotton buds in there - soaking.  As soon as your paint flow stops or slows wipe the tip of the airbrush nozzle to clear any build up of 'gunk'.

 

• I have found a couple of other useful cleaning devices to keep the brush in good condition - TePe brushes - which are used for flossing your teeth.  These come in various sizes and are finer than the 'proper' airbrush cleaning brushes.  TePe brushes are cheap and disposable too.  The other ace thing I've found is fuse wire - the finest - which is great for passing through the tip and brings a lot more debris out than you might imagine.

 

 

 

 

 

I hope these suggestions help mate - Steve

[malpaso]

On my evolution those symptoms usually indicate either:

Nozzle blocked with dried paint / too thick paint

Nozzle not nipped down tight enough

Or both!

The quantity of bubbles never seems in proportion to the tiny extra tweak in fingertightness needed.

 

The air is just finding an easier way out than through the hole at the front, which is tiny and therefore easily blocked.  When I got my first airbrush it was quite a few sessions before I could paint for more than a couple of minutes until I had to strip the airbrush and clean everything again, and again.  When I upgraded to H&S I still had to learn that brush's foibles but I found H&S architecture much simpler and easier than my previous Chinese copy (of most other types).

 

I just started by trying to paint evenly on paper before trying on a model, it was about a week of evenings before I committed to a basic paint job on a plane kit.

 

There are a lot of different combinations to work out, main things I found were

Thin paint more than you thought

Less pressure than you thought

A lot more practice than you thought.  Okay I knew there'd be a lot of practice!

 

To be honest it was several models before I was convinced I got a better result than brush painting that was actually worth all the faff of cleaning, masking, cleaning, adjusting, thinning, adjusting, cleaning...you get the picture.  And probably a year of models to be really comfortable with airbrushing.  And a couple more years later I have yet to try things like pre-shading, though I have done some weathering effects such as exhausts or uneven paint fading, my mottling needs more practice shall we say.

 

Keep sticking at it.

Cheers

Will

[BIG X]

51 minutes ago, Antb said:

Morning chaps 

 

Picked up my first airbrush yesterday and I'm so frustrated with it already. It's probably a really easy solution but I've spent ages trying to figure it out and quite frankly I'm really cheesed off. 

 

Got the brush home last night set it up and ran paint through it with no problems. After 20 minutes or so no paint was coming out so stripped it down to try and work out the issue. 

 

Should also mention at this stage I had bubbles in the paint cup which actually seemed to have been there right off the bat. 

 

Anyway i stripped it down cleaned it and rebuilt. Still nothing but serious bubbling in the paint cup again and bubbles were coming through the trigger area. 

 

I put it away for the night and had another go this morning. Stripped it down again and cleaned and 're built. Put some cleaner in the paint cup and massive blow back. The stuff spewed out of the paint cup and went everywhere. 

 

I'm completely new to this and frankly my excitement has disappeared. Can anyone help me out at all with a solution please? 

 

I bought the brush and compressor from Paul at little cars who I know is great but is at a show today and I'd love some info, so if you can help please let me know. 

 

Thanks in advance 

One other thing Ant...

 

What paint are you spraying...

 

I went for Vallejo Model Air in the end.  I know a few people say they can't get on with it - but with a bit of practice it works for me and doesn't need thinning or flow improver - so less stress and mess.  Also bear in mind some colours in every range tend to spray better than others...

 

EASY - BROWNS / GREENS / BLACK / GREYS

 

HARD - WHITE / YELLOW / RED / FLESH

 

Chin up mate - you'll get there - but Rome wasn't painted in a day,

Steve

[cmatthewbacon]

I’d agree that bubbles in the paint cup mean either a blocked nozzle or not fully tightened tip. For the nozzle, I dip an old paint brush in lacquer thinner and put it up through the nozzle until you can see bristles coming out the top, and twirl it around, then put the tip of the nozzle into the tube of my spray airbrush cleaner (liquid reamer) and give it a short squirt backwards through the nozzle. That usually brings out any crud...

best,

M.

[bmwh548]

Take the front off, grab a wooden toothpick and gently clean the nozzle cap opening. It can get clogged easily and if air can't go out that way it'll go backwards into the cup. 

Dip the nozzle into the appropriate cleaner for the paint you were using and "rub" the inside of the nozzle gently with a toothpick (don't push forward too much or you might crack the nozzle). When you're done look through the nozzle. You should see the hole nice and clean (and if the light is good enough you can actually see the inside walls shining).

Make sure the seals are clean as well. Can't remember if the Evo has the rubber o-ring on the nozzle cap; if it does - check it, make sure it's clean and it's not swollen from thinners (lacquer thinner can mess up rubber). Also have a look at the teflon seal on the back of the nozzle. It needs to be clean and flat. If there's a pinch in it you'll get leaks.

 

Aaaand: million dollar question: did you happen to get the 2in1 version? Make sure you didn't get the nozzle cap and nozzle mixed up (like using the 0.2 cap for the 0.4 nozzle).

[Antb]

Thank you everybody for your comments and for taking the time to respond. 

 

I've been whisked away to the RAF museum at Hendon unexpectedly (and a trip to hannants shop- now the owner of a 1/48 Rafale of all things. Doesn't do jets I once said 🤣) today so haven't had chance to try any suggestions. On the long drive back home now so will have a play later this evening. 

 

@BIG X I was using Vallejo model air slightly thinned with the acrylic thinner to ease flowing. I had dorsyed brown, red, and yellow fine but then tried the RLM65 and that's where the problem started. 

 

I did run through neat cleaner after each colour and used thinners and cleaner to try to sort the problem out but it wasn't having any of it. 

 

I did notice some air bubbles around the front air cap but I had (so I thought) tightened this as much as I could.

 

I knew learning airbrushing would be a challenge but honestly never expected this amount of trouble. 

 

I'll have a play around this evening and report back. 

 

Thank you all again. 

[BIG X]

2 hours ago, Antb said:

but then tried the RLM65 and that's where the problem started.  

Ahh - Hellblau - that's another 'tricky colour' from all suppliers.  It tends to go on 'very thin' but if you persist then it goes very 'sticky'.  I'm really betting it's clogged your brush.

 

Thin coats - about 3 or 4 with a few minutes in between coats should build up the colour without going on too thick.

 

Just my take on it - others will have other suggestions - but that's the nature of forums.

 

Steve

[MR2Don]

I have an Evolution Silverline and I do seem to have a recurring "issue" with it.

I'm only using Tamiya acrylics.

After each use, I clean it by:

Get as much paint out of the cup as possible - I use plastic pipettes.

Pour some IPA into cup; swill it around and empty.

Replace with clean IPA and blow back using yellow cap. Use airbrush to blow this into cleaning jar. Pour in a little more IPA and repeat.

Replace with clean IPA. BLow this through onto a cardboard sheet to ensure that all paint is gone, i.e. clean IPA coming through.

Wipe cup clean.

After all this, if I stop now, when I next go to use it, the needle is stuck, won't draw back from trigger use.

Withdraw needle from back (with difficulty sometimes), to find minute traces of paint still on it. Clean with IPA soaked cloth.

Why are those traces there - everything's been cleaned?

If it is still misbehaving, I remove nozzle, nozzle holder and protector, dump into a container of IPA, then clean them, using the nozzle tool from the H&S spares kit.

Overall, it's a good airbrush, but can be hassly.

Edited June 16, 2019 by MR2Don

[bmwh548]

Stop using the blow back method. When you do that you force minute amounts of paint past the teflon needle seal. It then dries up and the needle welds itself to the seal. Also stop retracting the needle, when you do you bring paint backwards, past the seal. Take the nozzle off, unscrew the needle chuck and just push it forward.

 

I just use lacquer thinner to clean up almost everything from the airbrushes. The only thing that doesn't "melt away" is Revell Aqua, but Gunze's waterbased washes away just fine. Tamiya's acrylics clean up just as fine. It stinks to high heaven so I don't recommend it to users without a paint booth.

[Greg B]

3 hours ago, MR2Don said:

I have an Evolution Silverline and I do seem to have a recurring "issue" with it.

I'm only using Tamiya acrylics.

After each use, I clean it by:

Get as much paint out of the cup as possible - I use plastic pipettes.

Pour some IPA into cup; swill it around and empty.

Replace with clean IPA and blow back using yellow cap. Use airbrush to blow this into cleaning jar. Pour in a little more IPA and repeat.

Replace with clean IPA. BLow this through onto a cardboard sheet to ensure that all paint is gone, i.e. clean IPA coming through.

Wipe cup clean.

After all this, if I stop now, when I next go to use it, the needle is stuck, won't draw back from trigger use.

Withdraw needle from back (with difficulty sometimes), to find minute traces of paint still on it. Clean with IPA soaked cloth.

Why are those traces there - everything's been cleaned?

If it is still misbehaving, I remove nozzle, nozzle holder and protector, dump into a container of IPA, then clean them, using the nozzle tool from the H&S spares kit.

Overall, it's a good airbrush, but can be hassly.

Unfortunately by backflushing and swilling around you are not really cleaning the airbrush. What you are doing is fine between colours, but at the end of each session I would strip it down and clean using cellulose thinners or similar, getting into all the nooks and crannies with paper towel pieces and tee pee brushes, same with the needle. A strip down clean takes about 5 minutes at the most and removes all the residue in the internals that will not be dislodged by a swill around and that cause airbrush inconsistencies during use

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

3 hours ago, MR2Don said:

Withdraw needle from back (with difficulty sometimes), to find minute traces of paint still on it. Clean with IPA soaked cloth.

Why are those traces there - everything's been cleaned?

Paint will dry with a shell, the clean thinner then rides over/around dried paint spots. I always break my Iwata down after a session wether I've run one color or four. It pays in the end to check  things by doing this. You'll also learn how your brush is built. It takes about 10 minutes once you know what you're doing. . This is my 4th brush since '88. Ive never done anything different. 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[sergant-san]

On 6/16/2019 at 8:22 AM, Antb said:

 

Should also mention at this stage I had bubbles in the paint cup which actually seemed to have been there right off the bat. 

 

Anyway i stripped it down cleaned it and rebuilt. Still nothing but serious bubbling in the paint cup again and bubbles were coming through the trigger area. 

 

The bubbles in the cup are likely to be caused by the nozzle not being fully tightened or there is a foreign object between the seal and the body of the airbrush. I has an issue where broken hair from the cleaning brush got between seal and the body and caused bubbles in the cup.  

 

Bubbles in the trigger area suggest blown or damaged needle seal which is located between trigger and the cup.  There should be a slight tension when you inserting needle into an airbrush. If you do not feel that tension, replace the needle seal. 

[bmwh548]

First try tightening the needle seal screw. My Ultra came with the seal "loose" from the factory and paint was getting in the trigger area. I cleaned everything up and tightened the screw and a year later it's still working fine.

[little-cars]

On 6/16/2019 at 8:27 AM, Gorby said:

Probably best summon @little-cars. He'll sort the problem out.

More than happy to, most problems are simple to solve.

 

Paul

[Antb]

Evening chaps 

 

Sorry for the delay replying, I know you've all been waiting with baited breath 🤣

 

First off, thanks to you all for the help and advice you've given. I'm pleased to say it's sorted and working a treat. I just need to now work out how thin to get the paint im spraying without it getting too thin. 

Oh, and air control.... 

 

Much practice ahead. 

 

Looks like there was a blockage that came spluttering out after i tried the blowback method. 

[Merlin]

The responses may have said so already, but get a powerful magnifyer and examine the nozzle, any defect at all like a hairline crack or deformity can cause bubbles I should know as a brand new cheap chinese a/b was doing so upon first use, so much for their qlty control., nozzle tip cracked.

 

I have a H&S evo and it also is prone to bubbling, the brick coloured seal around the thread dissolved in thinners, a thin bead of beeswax rolled betwixt finger ans thumb then placed around the thread some use to replace that I seem to recall.

 

Merlin

[Madman33]

 Hi Everyone.

 

I have the same problem with a H and S Evolution I purchased a mere 2 months ago ie bubbles in the paint cup and the obvious consequences of that. I've tried all the known cleaning methods I can find and inspected the noozle and air cap and seal and all seems well so I am now at a loss. I'm reluctant to buy a new nozzle and air cap but it seems this is the only solution as the air must be getting back in somehow either through a damaged nozzle or screw on the air cap or even the washer.

 

Before the issue I have been trying unsuccessfully on a number of occasions to spray Mr Hobby GX100 super clear gloss thinned with Mr Hobby Levelling Thinner. It blocked the airbrush a couple of times before I found that I needed more and more thinner to get it to pass through the 0.2mm nozzle. In between failures I put the nozzle and air cap into a small bath of laquer thinner overnight as advised so am probably now wondering if I might have ruined the rubber seal.  I was also experimenting with metal laquers on a Lightning F2 before this (ALCLAD Aluminium) and remember that there was a period when I wasn't able to clean the airbrush straightaway after use and it got jammed up for a bit before I could then clean it again with the laquer thinners. I'm thinking either of these events might have damaged one of the nozzle/air cap threads/seals...

 

It's annoying as was said before and frustrating given the airbrush was a speacial treat a couple of months ago!

 

So....any thoughts before I spend another £30 or so on a new nozzle and air cap?!!!  Many thanks!!

[psdavidson]

I had the same problem. Replacing the seal on the air cap fixed it

Try that before you resort to other, more expensive methods.

 

The main internal seals are (I think) PTFE which is solvent resistant but the air cap seal is rubber (real or synthetci) and can be damaged by solvents

 

HTH

/P

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

6 hours ago, Madman33 said:

 Hi Everyone.

 

I have the same problem with a H and S Evolution I purchased a mere 2 months ago ie bubbles in the paint cup and the obvious consequences of that. I've tried all the known cleaning methods I can find and inspected the noozle and air cap and seal and all seems well so I am now at a loss. I'm reluctant to buy a new nozzle and air cap but it seems this is the only solution as the air must be getting back in somehow either through a damaged nozzle or screw on the air cap or even the washer.

 

Before the issue I have been trying unsuccessfully on a number of occasions to spray Mr Hobby GX100 super clear gloss thinned with Mr Hobby Levelling Thinner. It blocked the airbrush a couple of times before I found that I needed more and more thinner to get it to pass through the 0.2mm nozzle. In between failures I put the nozzle and air cap into a small bath of laquer thinner overnight as advised so am probably now wondering if I might have ruined the rubber seal.  I was also experimenting with metal laquers on a Lightning F2 before this (ALCLAD Aluminium) and remember that there was a period when I wasn't able to clean the airbrush straightaway after use and it got jammed up for a bit before I could then clean it again with the laquer thinners. I'm thinking either of these events might have damaged one of the nozzle/air cap threads/seals...

 

It's annoying as was said before and frustrating given the airbrush was a speacial treat a couple of months ago!

 

So....any thoughts before I spend another £30 or so on a new nozzle and air cap?!!!  Many thanks!!

 

2 hours ago, psdavidson said:

I had the same problem. Replacing the seal on the air cap fixed it

Try that before you resort to other, more expensive methods.

 

The main internal seals are (I think) PTFE which is solvent resistant but the air cap seal is rubber (real or synthetci) and can be damaged by solvents

 

HTH

/P

My seal on my Iwata dissolved rather quickly (solvent). Ive used Beeswax ever since and its been working great so thats an option as well. 

[Madman33]

Thanks for the advice. I have ordered a replacement set of seals at £4.99 so will give that a go first and let you know how it goes! 

[Rob K.]

On 13/11/2022 at 14:35, Madman33 said:

Thanks for the advice. I have ordered a replacement set of seals at £4.99 so will give that a go first and let you know how it goes! 

Had the same issue and in my case it was also the seal of the nozzle cap. I purchased a new seal and the problem was solved, but after a year or so the problem re-appeared. I then used the tiniest amount of beeswax on the thread of the nozzle cap and that also solved the problem.

 

 

 

[Madman33]

The new seals arrived and despite looking exactly the same as the existing one under a magnifying glass its solved the problem! Amazing. Good shout to try replacing the seal first at a fraction of the cost of a new aircap and nozzle. Thanks for the advice all!