Differences in Mig-21 variants MF and BIS

[typhoon1]

Hi There

Just a quick question for the Mig experts could I use the Eduard 1/72 Mig-21MF and make it in to a Finnish Air Force Mig-21 what are the differences please.

 

Many Thanks

 

Craig

[Troy Smith]

3rd vs 4th generation MiG-21's

http://mig-21.de/english/technicaldataversions.htm

 

Quote

Third Generation

All-weather interceptor and reconnaissance aircraft with gun and missile (on four wing pylons) armament (one 23mm gun GSh-23, MiG-21S with GP-9 gun pod, MiG-21R with recce pod instead of the gun).

MiG-21R (94R, 03)

MiG-21RF (94R)

MiG-21S (95)

MiG-21SM (15)

MiG-21M (88, built under licence in India)

MiG-21M (96)

MiG-21MF (96A)

MiG-21MT (96B)

MiG-21MF (96F)

MiG-21MF-75 (63)

MiG-21SMT (50)

MiG-21ST (50bis)

Fourth Generation

All-weather interceptor with improved air combat performances at low and medium altitudes, engine and airframe completely redesigned.

MiG-21bis LAZUR (75A*)

MiG-21bis SAU (75B*)

MiG-21bis (75, built under licence in India)

 

Eduard tried putting their MiG-21MF out as Bis, and didn't change the nose, to much wailing and gnashing of teeth. I'm not sure of the exact differences

 

Hopefully someone can tell you how different the Bis is to the MF, and how difficult it is to make the changes

 

HTH

[typhoon1]

Thank you for the info Troy I was going to get the MF kit but looks like a lot of work to make it in to a BIS.

 

Many Thanks

 

Craig

[Bjorn]

46 minutes ago, typhoon1 said:

Hi There

Just a quick question for the Mig experts could I use the Eduard 1/72 Mig-21MF and make it in to a Finnish Air Force Mig-21 what are the differences please.

 

Many Thanks

 

Craig

The MF spine is too small compared to the bis version. So if you want to build a Finnish MiG-21bis, Eduard's bis with Cold War Studio's resin nose is the best choice. 

[Antti_K]

Good evening Craig,

 

The difference in nose diameter is around 0,4 mm between the model and real thing. In MiG-21BIS the nose is slightly wider just aft of the intake lip.

 

For a Finnish MiG you need:

- KM-1M ejection seat

- a "new" wind shield with sharp quarter panel corners; only MG-111 and MG-114 (the MGT prototype: MGT means tactical reconnaissance) had older wind shields with round quarter panel corners

- a modified instrument panel

- new wheels without those oval cooling openings

 

Some photos for you:

 

 

The correct nose shape

 

The cockpit of MG-114 showing the modified instrument panel and the seat.

 

 

 

 

One of two "old" style wind shields with round cornered quarter panel.

 

 

Main wheels of MG-114

 

 

A better picture of the instrument panel (MG-114). There is a Finnish PE set for the cockpit (Kuivalainen) which actually represents this reconnaissance version.

 

 

Port main gear well

 

 

Nose gear well looking forward

 

Port side console

 

 

Looking down the air intake.

 

I have plenty of photos and manuals. If you need more information, please just ask. Agree🙂

 

Here is an original (well one of them) maintenance manual. All hand drawn and hand written.

 

 

 

Kind Regards,

Antti

[exdraken]

As said above already!

Im 72 the spine/ fin transiton is the most obvious difference 

The rest is for specialists

Good luck with your build!

[Kari Lumppio]

Hello!

 

Antti gave all the basic info I think. Thanks to him.

 

Please note MG-114 was Finnish modified reconnaissance version ("MGT"). MGT Intrument panel is different from the fighter version.

 

And yes the Kuivalainen photo etch is the reconnaissance one, but lacking all the confidential recce specials. Strictly one can use it "straight" for those MGTs transferred to the fighter squadron 31 for pilot training right at the end of MiG-21 BIS era in Finland. I do not offhand remember the individuals.

 

Cheers,

Kari

[typhoon1]

Thank you all for your help I did not know they where the differances.

Many Thanks

Craig 

[Aardvark]

On 6/13/2019 at 11:36 PM, Antti_K said:

Here is an original (well one of them) maintenance manual. All hand drawn and hand written.

 



 

 

Amazing! 97 pages drawings  on wheel!!! On wheel...NINETY SEVEN pages!😲

Will anyone say now that the wheel is that simple?🤔

 

B.R.

Serge

 

P.S.

@Antti_K in this Finland MiG-21 KM-1M is completely black? 

As I know "black" KM-1M it's rare version KM-1M.

Edited June 15, 2019 by Aardvark

[Antti_K]

Hello again Serge,

 

There were also medium blue-gray seats. This example was one of two aircraft with "old style" windshield; maybe just these two had different seats. Our squadron had these six reconnaissance versions and the majority of MiGs served on another squadron at different air base. So I had a somewhat restricted view on the subject. I have an old photo of a seat that is placed on a trolley for maintenance and that seat was gray.

 

Those drawings are really amazing aren't they. The one in the photo isn't a book or a binder but a folder containing loose sheets that vary in size. Many of the sheets are at least one meter by one and a half meter in size! They are all produced using those old mechanical copying machines or first generation photo copying machines; all pictures and text are violet in colour. I'm not sure how they (the Soviets) counted the pages as there aren't as many as 97 sheets in this folder. On the other hand one sheet may contain several drawings.

 

Kind Regards,

Antti

[Aardvark]

Hi, Antti!

 

4 hours ago, Antti_K said:

There were also medium blue-gray seats. This example was one of two aircraft with "old style" windshield; maybe just these two had different seats. Our squadron had these six reconnaissance versions and the majority of MiGs served on another squadron at different air base. So I had a somewhat restricted view on the subject. I have an old photo of a seat that is placed on a trolley for maintenance and that seat was gray.

Really most KM-1 & KM-1M was blue grey colour. But some KM-1M was black. KM-1M on You photo no repainted in Finland because this ejection seat contains original Russian stencil. 

About "black" KM-1M was discussion on one aircraft specialist forum. Probably "Black" KM-1M it's last series KM-1M.

Next was KM-3, as and Yakovlev  KYa-4 ejection seat,  but this ejection seat was "killed" K-36 ejection seat, because standardisation.

5 hours ago, Antti_K said:

They are all produced using those old mechanical copying machines or first generation photo copying machines; all pictures and text are violet in colour.

It's blueprints or as call in Russian "синька" -"sinka"...... interesting, but "sinka" was many meanings, one of them, the most common slang name for a very long and very strong drinking.

😁😁😁

5 hours ago, Antti_K said:

They are all produced using those old mechanical copying machines or first generation photo copying machines; all pictures and text are violet in colour. I'm not sure how they (the Soviets) counted the pages as there aren't as many as 97 sheets in this folder. On the other hand one sheet may contain several drawings.

It's all simple.  According to the Soviet standard ESKD - Edinaya Sistema Konstruktorskoi Dikymentacii (Unified Design Documentation System)

 on all drawings must be STAMP drawing:

http://chertegnik.ru/informajiy/28-shtamp-chertezha.html

 

In the lower right corner there are inscriptions "Лист"- "Sheet" and "Листов" -Sheets, there should be indicated the numbering of sheets in numbers.

 

B.R.

Serge

[72modeler]

On 6/13/2019 at 3:11 PM, typhoon1 said:

Thank you for the info Troy I was going to get the MF kit but looks like a lot of work to make it in to a BIS.

 

Many Thanks

 

Craig

...and Eduard has announced that a new-tool 1/72 -bis will be one of the last toolings released, along with the -UM....blast- my two favorite  versions!

Mike

[Aardvark]

1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

and Eduard has announced that a new-tool 1/72 -bis will be one of the last toolings released, along with the -UM....

...no MiG-21F-13?

Only MiG-21bis & MiG-21UM?

 

B.R.

Serge

[typhoon1]

Thank you for the info Mike will look forward to those.

 

Many Thanks

Craig