Desert Churchill

[GazB]

So I'm pondering the possibility of getting a Churchill kit like Tamiya's 1/35. However I'm interested in trying something other than just a bog standard dark green vehicle. 

 

My specific question is: did Churchill's ever wear Caunter scheme? I've had a look around, but so far I only spotted Stuart's and Matildas painted in it while the Churchill seemed to get a single colour or had a kind of sand/brown combo (the one where it looks black in photographs).

 

Also kinda hoping the version depicted by Tamiya would be suitable for the African campaign period.

 

Thanks in advance.

Gaz

[fatfingers]

Aye up Gaz.

 

The Tamiya Churchill is a Mk VII and they were produced too late to see action in North Africa. You would need the AFV Club Mk III for that one. MkI and MkII were also used in Tunisia but only options for them are expensive resin kits. As far as i know the Caunter scheme was long gone by the time of the Churchies arriving in theatre. 

 

Regards

 

Steve

[GazB]

6 hours ago, fatfingers said:

Aye up Gaz.

 

The Tamiya Churchill is a Mk VII and they were produced too late to see action in North Africa. You would need the AFV Club Mk III for that one. MkI and MkII were also used in Tunisia but only options for them are expensive resin kits. As far as i know the Caunter scheme was long gone by the time of the Churchies arriving in theatre. 

 

Regards

 

Steve

Ah nuts, hehe.

 

Thanks for the info, Steve

 

Gaz

[JackG]

As Steve mentions, the Caunter scheme ended around October 1941, while the first Churchills (6 vehicles) arrived in the desert and participated at the second battle El Alamein  in late 1942.  Starmer describes the two tone scheme as likely being Light Stone No.61 over Khaki Green No. 3:

 

 

regards,

Jack

[GazB]

On 6/12/2019 at 2:56 PM, JackG said:

As Steve mentions, the Caunter scheme ended around October 1941, while the first Churchills (6 vehicles) arrived in the desert and participated at the second battle El Alamein  in late 1942.  Starmer describes the two tone scheme as likely being Light Stone No.61 over Khaki Green No. 3:

 

 

regards,

Jack

Thanks for the pointers, Jack

 

Gaz

[Troy Smith]

On 12/06/2019 at 05:07, GazB said:

had a kind of sand/brown combo (the one where it looks black in photographs).

These were the Kingforce Churchill Mk.III's

Quote

The Kingforce Churchills.  6 were sent from UK pre-painted in Light Stone 61.  The pattern was applied at base workshops  and modified from that for the Crusader tank since their configuration is broadly similar at a distance. 

The dark colour on these has been described as earth brown, red-brown and brick red, not green or black as artworks have it.   

dark brown probably close to SCC1A

 

from an email asking about this from Mike Starmer. 

there are descriptions and mixes here

http://www.mafva.net/other pages/Starmer camo.htm

 

I can find you Tamiya and Vallejo mixes as well if that helps.

[GazB]

50 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

These were the Kingforce Churchill Mk.III's

 

from an email asking about this from Mike Starmer. 

there are descriptions and mixes here

http://www.mafva.net/other pages/Starmer camo.htm

 

I can find you Tamiya and Vallejo mixes as well if that helps.

Nice, thanks

 

Gaz

[Cyberduck]

I seem to remember some conversions from Airwaves to make an earlier version of the Churchill from back in the 80's. Can not see anything on Ebay but a member may be able to help you out

[GazB]

1 hour ago, Cyberduck said:

I seem to remember some conversions from Airwaves to make an earlier version of the Churchill from back in the 80's. Can not see anything on Ebay but a member may be able to help you out

Thanks for the pointers, cyberduck ^-^/

 

Gaz

[Mike Starmer]

Milicast make a Kingforce Churchill III in resin complete with canvas 'dodger' for the front.  I used this kit when I made mine.  As Troy stated there was a specific pattern on these tanks.  It varied in detail only.  I drew a set of patterns for all six tanks based on photo analysis of readable WD numbers and pattern variations.  The article was published in a model magazine some years ago, possibly MAFVA.  Didn't record when or where, sorry. 

[GazB]

3 hours ago, Mike Starmer said:

Milicast make a Kingforce Churchill III in resin complete with canvas 'dodger' for the front.  I used this kit when I made mine.  As Troy stated there was a specific pattern on these tanks.  It varied in detail only.  I drew a set of patterns for all six tanks based on photo analysis of readable WD numbers and pattern variations.  The article was published in a model magazine some years ago, possibly MAFVA.  Didn't record when or where, sorry. 

No problem, Mike. Thanks for the response all the same

 

Gaz

[John Tapsell]

The 'Airwaves' conversions for the Tamiya Churchill were sold under the KK Castings label - I know they did an AVRE conversion but can't remember any backdate conversions (although my memory isn't perfect).

 

Both Airwaves and KK Castings were manufactured and distributed by the long-closed and much missed E D Models in Birmingham. The Airwaves range and brand name was ultimately sold to Hannants when ED Models closed, but KK Castings died a death.

 

Regards,

John

[Shermaniac]

30 minutes ago, John Tapsell said:

The 'Airwaves' conversions for the Tamiya Churchill were sold under the KK Castings label - I know they did an AVRE conversion but can't remember any backdate conversions (although my memory isn't perfect).

 

Both Airwaves and KK Castings were manufactured and distributed by the long-closed and much missed E D Models in Birmingham. The Airwaves range and brand name was ultimately sold to Hannants when ED Models closed, but KK Castings died a death.

 

Regards,

John

I still have the KK AVRE conversion hiding upstairs somewhere. I don't recall KK doing any other Churchill bits as I would likely have got them at the time.

[AntPhillips]

Airwaves (nee KK Castings) did 2 conversion sets one for IIRC an AVRE Mk IV and the other a Churchill NA75, both sets used the same replacement hull front with square drivers hatch & rectangular side hatches with a dedicated turret respective to each conversion set. This was pre AFV Club kit days and there were also conversion sets available from Resicast, Inside The Armour and Castoff amongst others.

 

Regrettably I had both KK Casting sets and sold them off in the great stash clearance of 2007-2009. Typically now I have a couple of spare Tamiya Churchill's and would like to get hold of one or both again, but they seem to be as rare as hens teeth these days, and rarely appear on EvilBay.