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sprue

1/48 Spitfire XIV

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7 hours ago, 72modeler said:

I think you're right, Giorgio, but there are a few PR XIX's painted to represent high back XIV's. Making an XVIII out of a XIV is pretty easy- late rudder with Z-tab, four rocket stubs under the wings, and cut out the camera windows, as desired from the photo of the one you want to model, and  fill and scribe in the new wing panel lines, and you're there!

Mike

 

I'm not concerned with the possibility of doing an 18 for a modeller, there's no doubt that it can be done very easily.  I'm more concerned with the possibility of Airfix doing an 18, as this opens more options for them in terms of future reissues of this kit. The larger rudder is included, they may or not bother with other details... I'm sure most modellers would not notice but we would, Of course we're a small niche of the whole model kit market, but a hard to please one 😁

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First indications point towards Airfix planning for a FR.18; the rudder and wing tips are already there. Airfix has included pre-planned holes for rockets in the lower wing part A15. But the under fuselage extension of A15 is too short for the two camera openings, PR.XIX style. So if Airfix wants to to do a FR.18 they need to redesign the fuselage halves, B06 and B07, too. A F.18 (100 made) is possible but they are even rarer than the FR.18 (200 made)

 

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On 6/9/2019 at 6:07 AM, sprue said:

I can't find the date from when the low back versions started to appear on the operational squadrons.

 

First operational use for 402 Squadron (RCAF) of low-backs was 23 March.  Seven aircraft (not all low-backs) flew their first ops with the unit on that date.  The individual histories, however, record most of them joining in late April!  This is probably not the FIRST operational use of low-backs, I just happened to run into a definite "first date" just now.  Some ORBs comment on the "new style", others don't make any mention.

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8 minutes ago, gingerbob said:

 

First operational use for 402 Squadron (RCAF) of low-backs was 23 March.  Seven aircraft (not all low-backs) flew their first ops with the unit on that date.  The individual histories, however, record most of them joining in late April!  This is probably not the FIRST operational use of low-backs, I just happened to run into a definite "first date" just now.  Some ORBs comment on the "new style", others don't make any mention.

Many thanks this concurs with data I've found online.

Mike

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19 hours ago, Tomas Enerdal said:

First indications point towards Airfix planning for a FR.18; the rudder and wing tips are already there. Airfix has included pre-planned holes for rockets in the lower wing part A15. But the under fuselage extension of A15 is too short for the two camera openings, PR.XIX style. So if Airfix wants to to do a FR.18 they need to redesign the fuselage halves, B06 and B07, too. A F.18 (100 made) is possible but they are even rarer than the FR.18 (200 made)

 

Are you sure that the 18 had under-fuselage camera openings 19 style?  I think there was a fuel tank in the position where the cameras would have been.  There's an earlier posting here on in the 'Rumourmonger' suggesting that the cameras 'qualifying' it to be an FR18 were the oblique ones high up in the fuselage.

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5 hours ago, Denford said:

Are you sure that the 18 had under-fuselage camera openings 19 style?

The link below might help- I can also look in my copy of the Shacklady book. The Mk XVIII is covered on pages 445-447, and there is a diagram that shows both the vertical and oblique camera installation. From the text report of trials with TP279 and its camera installation: " Two split verticals (8 1/2" semi-included angle) and one oblique. The verticals were mounted in tandem aft of the rear fuel tank on wooden bearer rails...the oblique camera was mounted above the forward vertical." Sounds like the same installation as the PR XIX to me. I hope this helps until one of our resident authorities can shed more light on your request.

Mike

 

https://spyflight.co.uk/aircraft/#Supermarine

 

 

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12 hours ago, Denford said:

Are you sure that the 18 had under-fuselage camera openings 19 style?  I think there was a fuel tank in the position where the cameras would have been.  There's an earlier posting here on in the 'Rumourmonger' suggesting that the cameras 'qualifying' it to be an FR18 were the oblique ones high up in the fuselage.

 

you asked something similar before, and along with @72modeler  information,  under fuselage camera ports are on the FR

 

On 20/05/2019 at 18:57, Denford said:

The under-fuselage camera ports, not that I would now doubt you, seem a little strange.  The cut down fuselage would not have the full depth of the Xl and 19 and so smaller /less effective cameras?  I have a vague feeling there might have been a rear fuselage tank....

 

I presume the ports would have been in the same place as on the above two variants.

 

Good questions,  point on the camera size vs fuselage depth, though this maybe not such an issue as this was a FR,  so more likely to be used at lower altitudes,   and I don't know how much difference the depth would make,  given the spine is pretty small, 

 

Hmm... is google my friend? 

not sciemtfic

BTJ_6697.jpg&key=d746d79c5c055d341ad7f6f

better

 

PR XI cutaway,  note the camera installation detail. 

255397f211aaac36235757ca97dc0b22.jpg

 

also from the Spitfire site

Quote

Contrary to the common misconception, the Spitfire could carry only two cameras on each mission – either the two verticals or the oblique one, but not all three simultaneously.

 

from the overview of the camera equipment

http://spitfiresite.com/2011/07/guided-tour-of-the-spitfire-mk-xix-camera-equipment.html

 

There was a rear fuselage tank on the low back IX/XVI, but where the cameras are IIRC, so probably not an issue?    Good, thought provoking points though.

 

 

 

HTH

 

PS re rear fuselage tank system, this is the Mk.IX , note there are two tanks, for high and low back versions.  

Possibly the few F.18 built may have had rear fuel tanks, but not the FR.18

spitfire9-fuelsystem-lr.jpg

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/66549-raf-q-type-seatbelts/&do=findComment&comment=726340

Quote

Posted March 21, 2011

Unfortunately, the "Q" part is a bit of a red herring; without going into the complications, if your set has the circular parachute-type box, on one lap-strap, into which three other straps clip, directly, for WWII the only a/c using it, that I've found, were the Tempest and lowback Spitfires, with the fuselage fuel tank behind the cockpit (XVIs & some XIVs.) All others used the Sutton, until war's end, around 1946.

Edgar

 

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Thank you for posting that Justin - brilliant.

 

Looks like I need to get another Mk XIV now.

 

PR

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Justin.

 

Gentleman doesn't begin to describe John Wilkinson or what he did; thank you so  much for posting his interview. I don't usually do tribute models, but I can tell you you after seeing your post, I know in what scheme and markings my Sword XIVe will be done! It will be a great companion to my 41 Sq Mk XII!

Mike

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Posted (edited)

Regarding the fuel tank - camera installation.

Shacklady states that the fuel capacity for the F.18 is 175 1/2 gallon, FR.18 is 142 1/2 gallon. The difference (33 gallon) is due to the fact that the F.18 has two rear fuselage fuel tanks, the FR.18 only one. As can be seen in post #32 above there is space for both between the pilot and the cameras. I suppose that the weight of installed cameras in a FR.18 only allowed one fuel tank, however, due to all up weight and/or CofG reasons. The fuel filling spout can be seen just behind the pilot headrest armor on both versions.

Edited by Tomas Enerdal

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One thing not discussed: Why the low back Mk.XIV? The normal Mk.XIVc did indeed have a lot of war experience. Then, why the low back? Now Airfix have their kits produced in India, and after the war India seems to build its air force mainly using Spitfire Mk.XIVe and XVIII. I would not be surprised if the Indian market demanded these types before anything else. 

 

We are so used to ignore these upcoming states, especially India -- the next super power. India is already providing a market much bigger than anything the UK can provide. So it could be cold logical rationing behind the decision to produce the low back version. Only that we in our part of the world didn't see it coming.

 

There seems to be plenty of material on the net, and then the impossible to get book by a leading Indian air officer.

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I prefer the look of the low back variants of the Spitfire/Seafire!

 

John

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20 minutes ago, jaw said:

I prefer the look of the low back variants of the Spitfire/Seafire!

 

John

I prefer the Spit/Seafire Mk.I to F.47😁

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Hi-back, Lo-back, it does not matter as long, as Airfix is still using that "Seashell Soap with Lavender" molding company in India.  

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2 hours ago, zigster said:

Hi-back, Lo-back, it does not matter as long, as Airfix is still using that "Seashell Soap with Lavender" molding company in India.  

Are you speaking from experience or just talking nonsense? 

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5 hours ago, zigster said:

Hi-back, Lo-back, it does not matter as long, as Airfix is still using that "Seashell Soap with Lavender" molding company in India.  

Didn't mean anything to me either!

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I imagine that he's referring to the dangerously soft plastic that Airfix has been using. 

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Posted (edited)

Anybody having any idea of how the Airfix Mk.XIV is issued in India? Indian markings?

 

And by the way,  did anybody see the thanks to our old late friend Edgar in the instructions to the Mk.XIV. Since Edgar left us for two years ago or more, it says something about the time it takes to produce such a model.

Edited by NPL

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