gingerbob Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 On 6/9/2019 at 6:07 AM, sprue said: I can't find the date from when the low back versions started to appear on the operational squadrons. First operational use for 402 Squadron (RCAF) of low-backs was 23 March. Seven aircraft (not all low-backs) flew their first ops with the unit on that date. The individual histories, however, record most of them joining in late April! This is probably not the FIRST operational use of low-backs, I just happened to run into a definite "first date" just now. Some ORBs comment on the "new style", others don't make any mention. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprue Posted June 12, 2019 Author Share Posted June 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, gingerbob said: First operational use for 402 Squadron (RCAF) of low-backs was 23 March. Seven aircraft (not all low-backs) flew their first ops with the unit on that date. The individual histories, however, record most of them joining in late April! This is probably not the FIRST operational use of low-backs, I just happened to run into a definite "first date" just now. Some ORBs comment on the "new style", others don't make any mention. Many thanks this concurs with data I've found online. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denford Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 19 hours ago, Tomas Enerdal said: First indications point towards Airfix planning for a FR.18; the rudder and wing tips are already there. Airfix has included pre-planned holes for rockets in the lower wing part A15. But the under fuselage extension of A15 is too short for the two camera openings, PR.XIX style. So if Airfix wants to to do a FR.18 they need to redesign the fuselage halves, B06 and B07, too. A F.18 (100 made) is possible but they are even rarer than the FR.18 (200 made) Are you sure that the 18 had under-fuselage camera openings 19 style? I think there was a fuel tank in the position where the cameras would have been. There's an earlier posting here on in the 'Rumourmonger' suggesting that the cameras 'qualifying' it to be an FR18 were the oblique ones high up in the fuselage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 5 hours ago, Denford said: Are you sure that the 18 had under-fuselage camera openings 19 style? The link below might help- I can also look in my copy of the Shacklady book. The Mk XVIII is covered on pages 445-447, and there is a diagram that shows both the vertical and oblique camera installation. From the text report of trials with TP279 and its camera installation: " Two split verticals (8 1/2" semi-included angle) and one oblique. The verticals were mounted in tandem aft of the rear fuel tank on wooden bearer rails...the oblique camera was mounted above the forward vertical." Sounds like the same installation as the PR XIX to me. I hope this helps until one of our resident authorities can shed more light on your request. Mike https://spyflight.co.uk/aircraft/#Supermarine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 12 hours ago, Denford said: Are you sure that the 18 had under-fuselage camera openings 19 style? I think there was a fuel tank in the position where the cameras would have been. There's an earlier posting here on in the 'Rumourmonger' suggesting that the cameras 'qualifying' it to be an FR18 were the oblique ones high up in the fuselage. you asked something similar before, and along with @72modeler information, under fuselage camera ports are on the FR On 20/05/2019 at 18:57, Denford said: The under-fuselage camera ports, not that I would now doubt you, seem a little strange. The cut down fuselage would not have the full depth of the Xl and 19 and so smaller /less effective cameras? I have a vague feeling there might have been a rear fuselage tank.... I presume the ports would have been in the same place as on the above two variants. Good questions, point on the camera size vs fuselage depth, though this maybe not such an issue as this was a FR, so more likely to be used at lower altitudes, and I don't know how much difference the depth would make, given the spine is pretty small, Hmm... is google my friend? not sciemtfic better PR XI cutaway, note the camera installation detail. also from the Spitfire site Quote Contrary to the common misconception, the Spitfire could carry only two cameras on each mission – either the two verticals or the oblique one, but not all three simultaneously. from the overview of the camera equipment http://spitfiresite.com/2011/07/guided-tour-of-the-spitfire-mk-xix-camera-equipment.html There was a rear fuselage tank on the low back IX/XVI, but where the cameras are IIRC, so probably not an issue? Good, thought provoking points though. HTH PS re rear fuselage tank system, this is the Mk.IX , note there are two tanks, for high and low back versions. Possibly the few F.18 built may have had rear fuel tanks, but not the FR.18 https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/66549-raf-q-type-seatbelts/&do=findComment&comment=726340 Quote Posted March 21, 2011 Unfortunately, the "Q" part is a bit of a red herring; without going into the complications, if your set has the circular parachute-type box, on one lap-strap, into which three other straps clip, directly, for WWII the only a/c using it, that I've found, were the Tempest and lowback Spitfires, with the fuselage fuel tank behind the cockpit (XVIs & some XIVs.) All others used the Sutton, until war's end, around 1946. Edgar 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedders Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 On the question of low-back XIVs flying operationally in 1945, you may have seen this interesting film https://vimeo.com/187744994 Which links to this (1/72) model of a 41 Sqn low-back F XIVe http://www.hyperscale.com/2016/galleries/spitfirexivsword72ap_1.htm Justin 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Roberts Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Thank you for posting that Justin - brilliant. Looks like I need to get another Mk XIV now. PR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Justin. Gentleman doesn't begin to describe John Wilkinson or what he did; thank you so much for posting his interview. I don't usually do tribute models, but I can tell you you after seeing your post, I know in what scheme and markings my Sword XIVe will be done! It will be a great companion to my 41 Sq Mk XII! Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Enerdal Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) Regarding the fuel tank - camera installation. Shacklady states that the fuel capacity for the F.18 is 175 1/2 gallon, FR.18 is 142 1/2 gallon. The difference (33 gallon) is due to the fact that the F.18 has two rear fuselage fuel tanks, the FR.18 only one. As can be seen in post #32 above there is space for both between the pilot and the cameras. I suppose that the weight of installed cameras in a FR.18 only allowed one fuel tank, however, due to all up weight and/or CofG reasons. The fuel filling spout can be seen just behind the pilot headrest armor on both versions. Edited June 14, 2019 by Tomas Enerdal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPL Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 One thing not discussed: Why the low back Mk.XIV? The normal Mk.XIVc did indeed have a lot of war experience. Then, why the low back? Now Airfix have their kits produced in India, and after the war India seems to build its air force mainly using Spitfire Mk.XIVe and XVIII. I would not be surprised if the Indian market demanded these types before anything else. We are so used to ignore these upcoming states, especially India -- the next super power. India is already providing a market much bigger than anything the UK can provide. So it could be cold logical rationing behind the decision to produce the low back version. Only that we in our part of the world didn't see it coming. There seems to be plenty of material on the net, and then the impossible to get book by a leading Indian air officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaw Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 I prefer the look of the low back variants of the Spitfire/Seafire! John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPL Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 20 minutes ago, jaw said: I prefer the look of the low back variants of the Spitfire/Seafire! John I prefer the Spit/Seafire Mk.I to F.47😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigster Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Hi-back, Lo-back, it does not matter as long, as Airfix is still using that "Seashell Soap with Lavender" molding company in India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPL Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 2 hours ago, zigster said: Hi-back, Lo-back, it does not matter as long, as Airfix is still using that "Seashell Soap with Lavender" molding company in India. Are you speaking from experience or just talking nonsense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welkin Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 5 hours ago, zigster said: Hi-back, Lo-back, it does not matter as long, as Airfix is still using that "Seashell Soap with Lavender" molding company in India. Didn't mean anything to me either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 I imagine that he's referring to the dangerously soft plastic that Airfix has been using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPL Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 (edited) Anybody having any idea of how the Airfix Mk.XIV is issued in India? Indian markings? And by the way, did anybody see the thanks to our old late friend Edgar in the instructions to the Mk.XIV. Since Edgar left us for two years ago or more, it says something about the time it takes to produce such a model. Edited June 15, 2019 by NPL 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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