1/48 Spitfire XIV

[sprue]

I'm interested in the new Airfix Mk XIV but only if I can find a war time as opposed to post war markings for it. Any pointers would be gratefully accepted. I can't find the date from when the low back versions started to appear on the operational squadrons. Incidentally is there a cross kit option to produce a high back XIV ?

[Troy Smith]

1 minute ago, sprue said:

I'm interested in the new Airfix Mk XIV but only if I can find a war time as opposed to post war markings for it. Any pointers would be gratefully accepted. I can't find the date from when the low back versions started to appear on the operational squadrons.

Spitfire mk. XIV. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

Spitfire _ the Canadians II, page 73, has this as 
NH757, 414 Sq RCAF, April 1945, Wunsdorf, Germany
RCAF Official photo

There might be some SEAC ones as well. 

 

1 minute ago, sprue said:

 

Incidentally is there a cross kit option to produce a high back XIV ?

A chap has grafted on a Airfix Vb spine,  which seems wasteful. 

How hard is to make a new spine.   Put it this way, before cross kitting, try making a new spine, and if that goes wrong, then cross kit.   

I suspect a smash mould would be a good options, as it would give a hollow spine behind the canopy.  Canopy from Falcon or use one of the options in the Eduard kit

[sprue]

What an interesting photograph. Looking closely do I see where the fuselage Sky Band has been painted out?

Thanks for the input.

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, sprue said:

Looking closely do I see where the fuselage Sky Band has been painted out?

Sky band was standard factory finish, but had been eliminated by the 2nd TAF, along with Sky spinner.

Assuming the date is right,  then it's been hard worked, so has been in service a while.

WHEN the low back XIV entered service I don't know, but 

http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/p080.html

 

Quote

NH757 FRXIV ALD G65 29MU  26-3-45 414S 26-4-45 2S 9-8-45 wheels up landing Sylt 2-9-46 recat E 12-9-46

 

 

[PLC1966]

I guess that is a Maple leaf on the tanker as well.  Great photo

[Troy Smith]

3 hours ago, sprue said:

I'm interested in the new Airfix Mk XIV but only if I can find a war time as opposed to post war markings for it. Any pointers would be gratefully accepted.

Stuff gets lost here

I did go  on an image hunt for low back XIV's,  NH757 is IIRC the only wartime image, or wartime airframe, there maybe some in SEAC, 

anyway I'll link this in

as we all like looking at Spitfire pics  

[NPL]

Thre are quite a few Mk XIVe's low back available on various decal sheets. Thus

 

Aviology MV348, ‘S’, 414 Sqn, S/L Ken Kawson, Soltau, May 1945

Aviology NH648 “P”, S/L J.B. Prendergast DFC, 414 Squadron Commander

 

Watermark decals also had some but they may be difficult to find today. 

 

Xtradecals will also have some.

 

Bret Green built the Academy version with an Australian pilot here: http://www.hyperscale.com/features/2001/spitfirexivebg_1.htm. Decals Red Roe (Australian).

 

 

Edited June 9, 2019 by NPL

[ColFord]

Volumes 3 & 4 of 2TAF by Shores and Thomas includes details, photos and profile artwork of a number of low back Spitfire XIVes operated by fighter units and Tac/R units.  They show aircraft both during wartime and immediate post war period.  The Tac/R units operating the Spitfire FR.XIVe in the period leading up to VE-Day in the ETO followed the same basic c&m arrangements they had used for their earlier Mustangs, no Squadron id letters, just individual aircraft id letter placed aft of the fuselage roundel.

 

As No.41 Squadron RAF operated low back Spitfire XIVes, opportunity to use left over Squadron code letters from the earlier Airfix Spitfire XII to model one of the No.41 Squadron aircraft.

 

The forthcoming Valiant WIngs publication on the Griffon engined Spitfires and Seafires may bring forth other photos and profiles for Spitfire XIVe aircraft.

 

Red Roo Models in Australia do a couple of decal sheets for Spitfire XIVes that were used by No.451 and No.453 RAAF Squadrons after VE-Day when they were a part of BAFO.  They are aircraft that feature nose art and unusual squadron markings - substitution of diamond symbol for aircraft id letter. Four different sheets produced - one is a multi aircraft sheet of four Spitfires used by No.451 RAAF Squadron (VC, IX, XVI, XIVe).

 

 

 

 

[NPL]

2 hours ago, ColFord said:

Volumes 3 & 4 of 2TAF by Shores and Thomas includes details, photos and profile artwork of a number of low back Spitfire XIVes operated by fighter units and Tac/R units.  They show aircraft both during wartime and immediate post war period.  The Tac/R units operating the Spitfire FR.XIVe in the period leading up to VE-Day in the ETO followed the same basic c&m arrangements they had used for their earlier Mustangs, no Squadron id letters, just individual aircraft id letter placed aft of the fuselage roundel.

 

As No.41 Squadron RAF operated low back Spitfire XIVes, opportunity to use left over Squadron code letters from the earlier Airfix Spitfire XII to model one of the No.41 Squadron aircraft.

 

The forthcoming Valiant WIngs publication on the Griffon engined Spitfires and Seafires may bring forth other photos and profiles for Spitfire XIVe aircraft.

 

Red Roo Models in Australia do a couple of decal sheets for Spitfire XIVes that were used by No.451 and No.453 RAAF Squadrons after VE-Day when they were a part of BAFO.  They are aircraft that feature nose art and unusual squadron markings - substitution of diamond symbol for aircraft id letter. Four different sheets produced - one is a multi aircraft sheet of four Spitfires used by No.451 RAAF Squadron (VC, IX, XVI, XIVe).

 

 

 

 

Red Roo D4820 Spitfire XIVe

       Mk.XIVe, FU&D, TZ141, 453 Sqdn. RAF

Red Roo D4821 Spitfire XIVe

       Mk.XIVe, NH919 [S/L Graham Falconer], 451 Sqdn, RAAF

Red Roo D4822 Spitfire XIVe

       Mk.XIVe, MI&MTZ, 142, 451 Sqdn, RAAF

&

Red Roo RRD4849 451 Squadron RAAF The Away Team Part 3

       Mk.Vc, EE797, BQ&Y, 451 Sqdn, El Daba, Egypt, Oct 1943 [S/L

             R.N.B. Stevens]

       Mk.IXc, MA466m BQ&S, 451 Sqdn, Poretta, Corsica, May 1944

       Mk.IXc, MH771, BQ&M, 451 Sqdn, Calvi, Corsica, July 1944

       Mk.XVIe, NI&V, 451 Sqdn, Matlaske, UK, March 1945

       Mk.XIVe, NH895, NI&K, Berlin, October 1945

[NPL]

4 hours ago, Jordi said:

I would definitely try grafting on a Mk.V spine long before I would ever attempt to smash form or otherwise scratch build one.  Im’ not sure it would be any more wasteful than using a bunch of other materials to scratch build it.  

 

I suspect Airfix will eventually do a high back Mk.XIV.  I would certainly hope so anyway.

We had that discussion on Rumormonger six months ago. At the end, the most reasonable conclusion is that Airfix will not. They never chose the obvious.

[Giorgio N]

18 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Stuff gets lost here

I did go  on an image hunt for low back XIV's,  NH757 is IIRC the only wartime image, or wartime airframe, there maybe some in SEAC, 

anyway I'll link this in

as we all like looking at Spitfire pics  

 

There were low back Spitfire XIV in SEAC before the end of the war, but none was used operationally. The first units to convert on the XIV were preparing for Operation Zipper when Japan surrendered, Parts of the operation went ahead with cover from these units, up to the modeller to decide if these actions, that met no resistance, can be seen as part of wartime or postwar activities

[Denford]

6 hours ago, Jordi said:

I suspect Airfix will eventually do a high back Mk.XIV.  I would certainly hope so anyway.

At Telford I heard Airfix being asked this question, and though I forget the exact reply (I'm strictly ¹/₇₂ so was not too concerned) the answer 'negative' in that it wasn't just the fuselage halves that would need changing, there was the internal detail as well.  The sprue layout  confirms this.

 

None of this rules a high back longer-term, but I suspect very much longer.  I am sure High Back would have been considered early on: there must have been good reasons, very good reasons (which we will probably never know) why it was dropped.

[EwenS]

1 hour ago, Giorgio N said:

 

There were low back Spitfire XIV in SEAC before the end of the war, but none was used operationally. The first units to convert on the XIV were preparing for Operation Zipper when Japan surrendered, Parts of the operation went ahead with cover from these units, up to the modeller to decide if these actions, that met no resistance, can be seen as part of wartime or postwar activities

The first low back FR.XIVe arrived in India towards the end of May 1945 and the first squadron to receive them was 11 squadron in June. These were in the MV and NH serial batches. 6 aircraft went on board HMS Trumpeter on 1 September 1945 along with high back F.XIVe of 17 squadron and were flown ashore to Kelanang airfield in Malaya on 9 September, being joined by the rest of the squadron later. The next squadrons to receive them, to supplement other Spitfire variants initially, were 28 and 20 squadrons in Oct & Nov 1945.

 

11 squadron's aircraft kept the full span wing as they found in preparing for flying off the carrier that the clipped wing added about 100ft to the take off distance.

 

The story goes that 17 squadron, which re-equipped at the same time,  should have got them first but its CO, "Ginger" Lacey, didn't think the low backs were "proper" Spitfires and insisted on the squadron receiving high back F.XIVe. Whether this is true or not I don't know but it is oft repeated. By the time the first low backs arrived in India there were nearly 100 high backs there already so it would have made sense to issue them first.

 

 

[sprue]

Thanks to all of you for your inputs. It seems the 414 Squadron option in the kit was a wartime aircraft taken on charge in April 1945. Next job is to get my hands on a kit as they seem to be selling out very quickly. No doubt Extradecals will be adding more alternatives soon.

Thanks again

[Crimea River]

19 hours ago, NPL said:

Thre are quite a few Mk XIVe's low back available on various decal sheets. Thus

 

Aviology MV348, ‘S’, 414 Sqn, S/L Ken Kawson, Soltau, May 1945

Aviology NH648 “P”, S/L J.B. Prendergast DFC, 414 Squadron Commander

 

 

The Aviaeology decals are out of stock and may be hard to find. Unless, of course @Terry @ Aviaeologyprints some more........

[NPL]

3 hours ago, Crimea River said:

The Aviaeology decals are out of stock and may be hard to find. Unless, of course @Terry @ Aviaeologyprints some more........

He reprinted them once in an improved version, so maybe now he has a kit to go with:

 

Aviaeology AOD48009 Canadians in Fighter Command 2: RCAF FR Spitfires

       FR.IX, MJ351, "S", 414 Sqdn RCAF, F/L Ken Lawson, Petit Broget, Belgium, March 1945

       FR.IX, MK202 "Q" 414 Sqdn RCAF, S/L Gordon Wonnacott, Einhoven. Netherlands. January 1945

       FR.XIVe, RN114, RC&W, 39 Wing RCAF, W/C Robert C.A. "Bunt" Waddell, January-May 1945

       FR.XIVe, MV348, "S", 414 Sqdn RCAF, F/L Ken Lawson, Soltau, Germany May 1945

Aviaeology AOD48009m: Canadians in Fighter Command 2 Special Edition RCAF FR Spitfires

       FR.IXc, MJ518, "O", 414 Sqdn, Mike Carr, Einhoven, Oct 1944

       FR.IXc, MK202, "Q", 414 Sqdn, S/L Gordon Wonnacott, Einhoven, Jan 1945

       FR.IXc, "S", 414 Sqdn, F/L Ken Lawson, Fall 1944

       FR.XIV, RM876, "H", 403 Sqdn, Warren Middleton, Einhoven, 8 Feb 1945

       FR.XIV, RN114, RC&W, 430 Sqdn, W/V RCA Waddell, Spring 1945

       FR.XIVe, MV348, "S", 414 Sqdn, S/L Ken Lawson, Soltau, May 1945

       FR.XIVe, NH648, 414 Sqdn, S/L James Prendergast, Soltau, 18 APR 1945

Edited June 10, 2019 by NPL

[NPL]

18 minutes ago, Jordi said:

That’s really sad.  I don’t understand Airfix’s logic (or lack of same).  Why do a low back only, when it didn’t really have much of a role in WWII, but the high back definitely did?  Makes absolutely zero sense to me.  Looks like time to cross kit.

But think of a world that is perfect: Every mark of the Spitfire in super quality 1/48 and for others 1/72? Have you ever collected stamps? It is said that those super collectors get everything ready for the big show and shows off their collection, where after they split it up and start a new collection.

 

The moment you have finished a model, and nothing more is to be done, what fun is it then? Yes, you can display the model, perhaps between glass, show it off at a show. But the fun is the process of getting the model together with paint and decals, and the research that goes into the model. Plus, not to forget, the discussion with fellow modellers.

[Giorgio N]

The low-back may have not had the same wartime career of the high back, but I can see how this subvariant can be more interesting from a commercial point of view.

For a starter, I can think of more colour scheme and markings combinations for the low back, as the postwar use meant some interesting combinations. The Airfix kit itself offers two quite different options, a typical wartime scheme and a colourful postwar one. The number of possible schemes is even higher if there is the possiblity of offering as a Mk.18 (can't comment on this as I don't have the kit). The variety of possible schemes means having the chance of reboxing the same kit in a few years with new markings, so keeping interest in the model at a good level.

There's another good reason: there is an airworthy low back but I don't think there's any airworthy high back. Watching an aircraft flying at an airshow can be to a modeller or an enthusiast a good reason to buy a kit of the same aircraft, resulting in higher sales. Airfix seems to have watched this aspect before, they may have done the same this time.

[Admiral Puff]

And if all else fails I'm sure the aftermarket people will oblige us - sooner rather than later.

[72modeler]

2 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

I don't think there's any airworthy high back.

I think you're right, Giorgio, but there are a few PR XIX's painted to represent high back XIV's. Making an XVIII out of a XIV is pretty easy- late rudder with Z-tab, four rocket stubs under the wings, and cut out the camera windows, as desired from the photo of the one you want to model, and  fill and scribe in the new wing panel lines, and you're there!

Mike

Edited June 11, 2019 by 72modeler
corrected spelling

[Work In Progress]

9 hours ago, Jordi said:

That’s really sad.  I don’t understand Airfix’s logic (or lack of same).  Why do a low back only, when it didn’t really have much of a role in WWII, but the high back definitely did?  Makes absolutely zero sense to me.  Looks like time to cross kit.

Maybe because they sold an absolute ton of Spitfire 22/24 and Seafire 47 kits, bubble-top Griffon Spitfires that didn't have any role in WW2 whatsoever.

[NPL]

8 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

The low-back may have not had the same wartime career of the high back, but I can see how this subvariant can be more interesting from a commercial point of view.

For a starter, I can think of more colour scheme and markings combinations for the low back, as the postwar use meant some interesting combinations. The Airfix kit itself offers two quite different options, a typical wartime scheme and a colourful postwar one. The number of possible schemes is even higher if there is the possiblity of offering as a Mk.18 (can't comment on this as I don't have the kit). The variety of possible schemes means having the chance of reboxing the same kit in a few years with new markings, so keeping interest in the model at a good level.

There's another good reason: there is an airworthy low back but I don't think there's any airworthy high back. Watching an aircraft flying at an airshow can be to a modeller or an enthusiast a good reason to buy a kit of the same aircraft, resulting in higher sales. Airfix seems to have watched this aspect before, they may have done the same this time.

Are you sure that the single airworthy example is a good reason? Stuck away somewhere in California. Actually, there are very few surviving Mk.XIV's all versions. But then we have the issue of operators. Here at least, Belgium, The Netherlands, India and Thailand had high back MK.XIV's. So they will appear in collections in at least these countries. 

[NPL]

7 hours ago, Admiral Puff said:

And if all else fails I'm sure the aftermarket people will oblige us - sooner rather than later.

It should certainly be something worth considering for companies like Alleycat and Freigtdog. 

[Giorgio N]

7 hours ago, 72modeler said:

I think you're right, Giorgio, but there are a few PR XIX's painted to represent high back XIV's. Making an XVIII out of a XIV is pretty easy- late rudder with Z-tab, four rocket stubs under the wings, and cut out the camera windows, as desired from the photo of the one you want to model, and  fill and scribe in the new wing panel lines, and you're there!

Mike

 

I'm not concerned with the possibility of doing an 18 for a modeller, there's no doubt that it can be done very easily.  I'm more concerned with the possibility of Airfix doing an 18, as this opens more options for them in terms of future reissues of this kit. The larger rudder is included, they may or not bother with other details... I'm sure most modellers would not notice but we would, Of course we're a small niche of the whole model kit market, but a hard to please one 😁

[Tomas Enerdal]

First indications point towards Airfix planning for a FR.18; the rudder and wing tips are already there. Airfix has included pre-planned holes for rockets in the lower wing part A15. But the under fuselage extension of A15 is too short for the two camera openings, PR.XIX style. So if Airfix wants to to do a FR.18 they need to redesign the fuselage halves, B06 and B07, too. A F.18 (100 made) is possible but they are even rarer than the FR.18 (200 made)