POSSIBLE Launch of Resin 1/48th Vulcan

[spruecutter96]

Hello, folks.

 

I have very recently heard a  rumour that a trader at the Elstree Model Show (9th June) will be launching a big-boy resin Vulcan. Unfortunately, the individual who whispered it to me wasn't too sure which trader it was.... (I'm still trying to figure out just how that works!)

 

I will get back to you once I've found out how true the information is.

 

Chris.   

Edited June 5, 2019 by spruecutter96
Correcting a typo.

[Adam Poultney]

It is accurate. Either that was the guy I talked to at the Hinkcley model show last month, and I think he said Elstree, or it's another Vulcan in that scale. 

[The Tomohawk Kid]

 

[exdraken]

Hph maybe?

Would fit, no?

Valkyry, Concorde, B-52, B-36, ....

[bentwaters81tfw]

No,  its Alan at Icelandic Fine Arts.

 

If I could get my stupid new 'smartfone' to actually upload pictures, I would post them of the Masters.

Cast bombay and 4 white metal Olympus on the stand too.

 

Very nice piece of work.

 

See the post Tomohawk linked to.

[general melchett]

I've spoken to Alan at several shows this year, the Vulcan is just one of several big projects he wants to release in the future. The master he had with him is quite old, (ten years I think he said) and looks to be a good starting point for a quarter scale Vulcan, almost certainly less work than the Aeroclub Vac, which, for my sins, I've recently started, a build thread here will follow soon for anyone interested, (LOTS of scratch building and murdering of plastic taking place). He's aware that the master still needs refinement and I've offered him a lot of data I've recently collected from XM594 at Newark, which will, hopefully, speed things up for him. He had the engines, bomb bay, cockpit interior, and Blue Steel with him on the table at Hinckley recently, all good stuff. Very much looking forward to progress...he said he was joining BM so hopefully, we'll get to hear more from him here. 

[LorenSharp]

And who says there's no Father Christmas! In the meantime looking forward to your murdering mayhem of multitudinous bit of plastic with rapturous Glee, General!

Edited June 6, 2019 by LorenSharp
spelling

[spruecutter96]

Thanks for the extra info, fellas. Am I alone in thinking this would sell in some very high numbers? For a short-run kit, I think it would be VERY popular.

 

Chris.  

[Mike]

That won't be at all heavy then, will it? Hopefully, it'll have plenty of stiffening in the larger parts so gravity doesn't get to it

[Uncle Uncool]

21 minutes ago, Mike said:

That won't be at all heavy then, will it?  

 Not at all, Mike!  The kit will have to have some titanium-made undercarriage leg struts.

 

14 hours ago, LorenSharp said:

In the meantime looking forward to your murdering mayhem of multitudinous bit of plastic with rapturous Glee, General!

Whut Loren said!

Cheers,

 

Unc²

[Mike]

51 minutes ago, Uncle Uncool said:

 Not at all, Mike!  The kit will have to have some titanium-made undercarriage leg struts.

 

Whut Loren said!

Cheers,

 

Unc²

Easy tiger - you may want to reduce the dose a little there

[The Tomohawk Kid]

On 06/06/2019 at 15:00, spruecutter96 said:

I alone in thinking this would sell in some very high numbers? For a short-run kit, I think it would be VERY popular.

 

Chris.  

 

I hate to be the one that cools the ardour here, I venture It will be extremely popular up until the point in time when the price is revealed - isn't that what did for the Aeroclub Vulcan all those years ago? Resin at the best of times can be ruinlessly expensive. One is talking of a resin kit that is going to push boundaries if indeed it is all resin.

 

If one is splashing the spondulaks here, I would want some reassurances of the structural integrity of a kit this size in resin. Note the large HpH kits are to all intents and purposes are resin coated fibre glass with resin and PE detail parts and not resin per se. 

 

Tommo.

Edited June 8, 2019 by The Tomohawk Kid

[bentwaters81tfw]

I don't know how much the Vulcan will be pitched at. I do know the anticipated prices of the VC10 and Hastings. TBH I don't know how he will make money at the figures he has in mind.

[spruecutter96]

I fully appreciate that it will be a very expensive kit, but I would take an educated guess that we'll never see an injection-moulded version in 1/48th scale (Trumpeter, are you listening? Please put your "Team A" on designing it!). The large numbers of 1/32nd Hong Kong Models Lancasters and other WW2 aircraft which have been sold suggest that folks will pay for a genuinely "unique" kit (thinking about it, the HK Lanc is probably not the best example as Wingnut wings will get in on the act later this year - allegedly).  

 

I will be very keen to see if anything Vulcan-shaped is announced or displayed at Sunday's show. Time will tell....

 

Cheers. 

 

Chris. 

[spruecutter96]

1 hour ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

I don't know how much the Vulcan will be pitched at. I do know the anticipated prices of the VC10 and Hastings. TBH I don't know how he will make money at the figures he has in mind.

I'm guessing that we are talking about Alan Wilson here. After talking to him at the recent Milton Keynes show, it was very obvious that he's not in to this hobby to make money. It might sound a bit "flowery", but Alan produces his aircraft simply from a genuine passion for all things aviation-related. He's a very talented fella, but he's not a manufacturer in the conventional sense. I have seen a few people at shows trying to persuade him to produce a load of Vulcans to sell, but he doesn't appear to be too troubled about it. 

 

I THINK Rikki Wolfe of British Experimental Designs has talked about producing a big Vulcan, but he fully appreciates the huge amount worked involved. 

 

Cheers. 

 

Chris.    

Edited June 6, 2019 by spruecutter96
Correcting a typo.

[The Tomohawk Kid]

20 hours ago, spruecutter96 said:

 I have seen a few people at shows trying to persuade him to produce a load of Vulcans to sell, but he doesn't appear to be too troubled about it. 

That is the nub of the issue, once the price is announced you won't see most of them for dust.

 

Also, is resin the right medium for a quarter scale Vulcan?

 

Tommo.

[spruecutter96]

2 hours ago, The Tomohawk Kid said:

That is the nub of the issue, once the price is announced you won't see most of them for dust.

 

Also, is resin the right medium for a quarter scale Vulcan?

 

Tommo.

Resin might not be the perfect medium, but it's a damn-sight cheaper to produce anything in resin than produce a brand-new, steel injection-mould. I've heard that a new mould can cost $100,000 to produce. The maths seems fairly simple, in view of that figure. 

 

Cheers.

 

Chris.  

[Albeback52]

17 hours ago, The Tomohawk Kid said:

That is the nub of the issue, once the price is announced you won't see most of them for dust.

 

Also, is resin the right medium for a quarter scale Vulcan?

 

Tommo.

I have to agree with you on both points. I don't personally like resin as a modelling medium and, even though there may be a lot of interesting subjects, they are mostly prohibitively expensive.

In all honesty, I think 1/72 is a far more practical scale for such large aircraft so, I cannot really understand  either why so many modellers would want a  Vulcan in 1/48. I suspect the inevitable high price of an I M kit in this scale would also have a lot of modellers running for cover. OK, that's just a personal point of view and, while a new Vulcan could  probably sell well, perhaps there would be wider market for the smaller (1/72) scale at a much lower price?

 

Allan

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2019 by Albeback52

[tomprobert]

Sanger has been promising a 1/48th Vulcan for quite a while in vacform - all’s gone very quiet so I wonder if Gerald has seen this version in the pipeline and decided not to proceed any further. 

 

Although injection-moulding would clearly be the preferred medium for most, the costs of a kit this size (as mentioned by others) could be eye-wateringly expensive, especially in resin. 

 

I think it pretty unlikely that a mainstream manufacturer is going to do an injection kit in the immediate future, so it’s either resin or vacform. How well either would sell remains to be seen, but a cheaper vac would certainly be my preference. And if Sanger's 1/48th B-52 is anything to go by, a 1/48th vacformed Vulcan would sell like the proverbial hot cake. I understand over 500 of the B-52 kits have been sold, and Gerald is struggling to keep up with demand. Haven’t seen many being built, mind you 

[JohnT]

Of course no one has yet pointed out the most obvious flaw in producing a Vulcan in resin in 1/48 and that is not related to price point ( which I suspect will not be an issue for those Vulcanologists who will sweat blood and sell kidneys - witness eBay prices for Aeroclub kits ) or weight or building medium. 

 

 

 

Its the wrong V bomber. The Victor is way much the better looking and the better aircraft so you have to do that one first 

 

I still want one though. The Victor can come after.  Hmnnnnn..... now I think on it. Valiant anyone? 

[The Tomohawk Kid]

 I have nothing against resin per se, I have built a stack of resin kits and have a ton yet to build. But, it is however extremely questionable if its the right medium and fit for purpose for a quarter scale Vulcan, given the size and in particular the large planform with its complex and subtle compound curves that need to be reproduced. The larger one goes in resin, the rubber moulds become less durable from pour and release perspective and have to be replaced more frequently than smaller moulds, which adds to the expense. No doubt the kit will broken down into sub-assemblies, but there will be still be some extremely large parts to release from the moulds. I have AJA's 1/48 Boeing Aries 1B, at the time Adam Johnson was of the opinion that was as large one could go with an all resin kit (some of the parts of the kit were still reinforced with copper rod) and that was only due to its shape being conducive for resin, which is not in the favour of a Vulcan. I also imagine it won't be quick to manufacture either.

 

Whilst resin technology is moving on, it is still inherently unstable (particularly hollow cast) and the larger one goes the more unstable it becomes. When built it will need some form of structural sub-frame or cast in metal rod to stop it deforming and succumbing to gravity. I also doubt it will be any easier to build than an all vac kit.

 

To my mind a better approach would be a resin (reinforced) fuselage with vac wings or go resin coated fibre glass.

 

As for sales, yes there will be folk that will pony up for it, but for every 10 individuals that expresses an interest in it at a show, that will be lucky to convert into one sale.

 

That said best of luck to the manufacturer.

 

Tommo.

Edited June 8, 2019 by The Tomohawk Kid

[cngaero]

On 6/6/2019 at 3:02 PM, Mike said:

Hopefully, it'll have plenty of stiffening in the larger parts so gravity doesn't get to it 

Would I be able to get that on prescription Mike???

[WV908]

Everyone seems to be forgetting that there was a 1/48 resin Vulcan done by a company called Eirikkson - as far as I can make out there are only one or two in existence, which speaks volumes in itself - but that may be due to the nature of the kit itself which is solid cast and therefore not really cost effective to produce.

 

A hollow cast 1/48 Vulcan is feasible as resin does cope with the Vulcan’s compound curves in casting and, going on how the Gannet was cast, I think Alan can pull it off.

 

Price has been mentioned - the Eiriksson Vulcan went for £315 when it popped up on eBay. I can see Alan’s kit being significantly less than this luckily and if i’d known he was doing one six months ago, well.....

 

 

The canopy and windows need some work to bring them to the correct profile and scale and I still need to hollow the thing out, but it is big. Not 1/32 Lancaster big, but she’s not far off.... 

 

Cheers,

  WV908

[The Tomohawk Kid]

4 hours ago, WV908 said:

Everyone seems to be forgetting that there was a 1/48 resin Vulcan done by a company called Eirikkson - as far as I can make out there are only one or two in existence, which speaks volumes in itself - but that may be due to the nature of the kit itself which is solid cast and therefore not really cost effective to produce.

 

A hollow cast 1/48 Vulcan is feasible as resin does cope with the Vulcan’s compound curves in casting and, going on how the Gannet was cast, I think Alan can pull it off.

 

Price has been mentioned - the Eiriksson Vulcan went for £315 when it popped up on eBay. I can see Alan’s kit being significantly less than this luckily and if i’d known he was doing one six months ago, well.....

 

Cheers,

  WV908

 

I assume in part you are responding to my earlier post, apologies if you were not.

 

At no point did I say it was not possible to mould in resin the compound curves of a Vulcan in quarter scale, it is! However, what I did point that the size and complexity hammers the moulds and they have a very short shelf life - the 'rubber' is nearly expensive as the resin and to make a cost effect resin one needs as many pulls from the 'rubber' as possible. I would say my view is supported in your comments that very few Eriiksson Vulcan kits were made and I venture a combination of that and price was the reason for a limited release.

 

Will a hollow cast kit be cheaper, I have no idea - will it be structurally less stable than solid cast kit, yes.

 

Good luck with your build it looks like it will require some serious heavy metal to pull it together.

 

Tommo.

Edited June 8, 2019 by The Tomohawk Kid

[WV908]

2 hours ago, The Tomohawk Kid said:

 

I assume in part you are responding to my earlier post, apologies if you were not.

 

At no point did I say it was not possible to mould in resin the compound curves of a Vulcan in quarter scale, it is! However, what I did point that the size and complexity hammers the moulds and they have a very short shelf life - the 'rubber' is nearly expensive as the resin and to make a cost effect resin one needs as many pulls from the 'rubber' as possible. I would say my view is supported in your comments that very few Eriiksson Vulcan kits were made and I venture a combination of that and price was the reason for a limited release.

 

Will a hollow cast kit be cheaper, I have no idea - will it be structurally less stable than solid cast kit, yes.

 

Good luck with your build it looks like it will require some serious heavy metal to pull it together.

 

Tommo.

Hi Tommo,

  it was more of a broader response to the whole topic, but I see what you mean by the efficiency and life of the moulds. I can’t say for certain how moulds with compound curves like these would stand up to repeated pulls, but I guess that remains to be seen  

 

The kit I have has some very sizeable tabs between the sections, but I am very tempted to drill through sections and insert brass tubing to make sure she won’t crack. 

 

Cheers,

  WV908