Stumble Bum Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 Hi, So I've literally only just started getting into modelling as a hobby this week, and the 1/350 KGV is my first build I am trying. Still got plenty of equipment to arrive but I have made a good start on the kit. My main newbie questions as I am a complete beginner in all this was about Photo Etching. What is the general view on PE, is it worth the extra expense and is it seen as a must have for everyone? I've already ordered a wooden deck and an airbrush to do this to a decent standard and I will at the very least need to get some railings for my ship, but do I really need to get all the PE stuff too? Or will it not make that much of a difference. Also do they come with any instructions on where all the bits go? Or is it all a bit of a puzzle? Finally is there any go to places to order Photo Etching from? Or any particular brands? Many thanks in advance, I'm really enjoying the hobby so far but I still have soooooo much to learn and I've thrown myself in at the deep end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 Hi and welcome. I sell PE as well as paints, and my personal opinion is that PE is worth it, but for your first build just forget about it. Instead focus on getting the parts fit as nice and crisp and neat and tidy as you can. Put effort into planning which colours to apply when, and with a ship that's often influenced by what is the more practical way to get a neat demarcation between colours. Often it's easier to mask one colour rather than the other. If there's an expense that is worth it, then IMO it's good abrasives, good masking tape (whilst you can get the same basic stuff cheaper, in the interests of gettibg nifty dispensers and being sure it's the right stuff, I'd recommend you invest in some Tamiya branded masking tape. The yellow stuff) and decent paint and thinners irrespective of whether you intend to brush or spray. There's time enough to introduce PE later. Ships are very rewarding, but they are more complicated than they can first appear. PE multiplies the complexity of the overall project. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 I completely agree with Jamie. PE can give amazing results, but it’s not at all simple to handle successfully, and in your first model it would be easy to get demoralised - there’s an awful lot of PE detail possible on a KGV! Much better to concentrate for now on building a really good model out of the box - no visible joins, no glue marks, really well painted, etc. There’s plenty of time for PE later. You have come to a good place; people are friendly and generous with their knowledge & experience on here (both of modelling and the real thing). Plus of course you have just started an amazing hobby, where you will never stop learning but which is huge fun from the very first moment. Good luck! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 I meant to add that the kit is basically good, but that in the configuration modelled (i.e. with no catapult amidships and a new deck house and boat deck there instead) KGV never wore the disruptive pattern camouflage. None of the colour call-outs are particularly close to real RN shades, but the "2 tone" scheme worn in the configuration modelled is assumed by Tamiya to be 2 greys. It wasn't. It was a very well documented standard scheme rolled out in late 1944 called "Scheme A" and it comprised a colour called G45 for the lighter tone and B20 (a blue) for the darker tone. Horizontal steel surfaces would have been G10. HTH. Lots of people have faithfully followed the Tamiya paint guide which is a pity as the the real colours are much more interesting and attractive IMHO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumble Bum Posted June 4, 2019 Author Share Posted June 4, 2019 (edited) Thanks guys, I shall hold off on the PE stuff and can always revisit it at a later date. I'll look into decent abrasives. And yep I've got the Tamiya masking tape. I've also opted to use Vallejo paints, both Air and Model which I believe are very good. Yep, I wanted to use the colour scheme that she wore during May 1941. So they grey scheme. I need to see what photos are around as it's hard to know what colours to paint the KGV. Are there any good photos/references to the real colour scheme? I'll try and have a look. Many thanks. EDIT: Just been reading some of your posts on RN colour schemes Jamie, all very detailed, not quite sure how that translates to which Vallejo Greys to use 😛, but I'll try and spend some more time reading it later. Edited June 4, 2019 by Stumble Bum new info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calistan Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 I’m also a noob at this, one year in and I’m currently on my fourth ship. So not hugely qualified to offer expert advice, but I went straight for the PE from day one, and I have to say it’s nowhere near as difficult as it first looks. You can buy an all-in-one PE set for the model and just pick and choose which parts you want to apply. Some bits such as deck guns are fiddly and you’d need a microscope to see that they look any better than the kit parts when painted, so you could just leave them out. Railings make a very big difference. Ships look a bit odd without them, in my opinion. You can buy generic ship railing sets and cut them to length, if you don’t want to splash out on a full PE set, which would cost a lot more than the base kit did. Also, why not try a ship that comes with the PE as standard? Easier to fit, and no need to shave bits off the plastic kit. I don’t know how common that type of model is, but I made a Hobbyboss SMS Seydlitz (it’s somewhere on this forum) and it’s a bargain, impressive, easy to build and comes with all the PE you’ll need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Stumble Bum said: Yep, I wanted to use the colour scheme that she wore during May 1941. So they grey scheme. I need to see what photos are around as it's hard to know what colours to paint the KGV. Are there any good photos/references to the real colour scheme? I'll try and have a look. She wore overall Home Fleet Grey in 1941 with darkened wooden decks. However the parts in the kit depict King George V late in the war after the catapult was removed, a new deck structure was erected in its place, the boats placed above this new structure and the previous boat deck repurposed with many more anti aircraft weapons. To build KGV in 1941 you'd need Tamiya's Prince of Wales boxing of the same kit which contains a couple of different sprues with the earlier fit parts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 This is KGV's appearance as modelled in the kit. You can see the new deckhouse between the funnels where the catapult originally was. The blue panel is, as I said above, assumed to be a darker grey by Tamiya. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EwenM Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Hi, like you I’m fairly new to this caper, and recently completed Trumpeter’s HMS Exeter (first ship) which included quite a few PE parts, I found these fairly daunting initially but soon got the hang, especially using some superglue that didn’t set on contact. Quite pleased with the results and would definitely use them again. I’m just about to start the KGV so glad I saw this thread on correct colour scheme, just need to match the grey/blue to a Humbrol or other make (sorry Jamie, its the only colour I need as I have the others in colourcoats and I would have to order a minimum of 6 tins from Sovereign) Also ordered a wooden deck from wood hunter, so if anyone has advice on fitting it be gratefully received, assume it glues onto the plastic deck in the kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 16 hours ago, EwenM said: Also ordered a wooden deck from wood hunter, so if anyone has advice on fitting it be gratefully received, assume it glues onto the plastic deck in the kit? Yes it does. I usually pick out all the laser cut bits you don't want first until left with the penultimate product on the backing plastic. Then peel the deck from the backing plastic and begin by aligning it over a turret barbette or similar - anything that is easy to identify and remove 2 degrees of freedom. Last, line up the furthest end and lower down, burnishing from inside outwards to avoid trapped air bubbles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EwenM Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Thanks Jamie, will need a wooden deck (when you have it back in stock) and paint for the Bismarck I’ve put on hold for the moment. Ewen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumble Bum Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 Right, time for the first update on my very first model. I have built most of the structures but there's no need for photos of those until I start putting them on the ship and painting them. I've certainly learnt a lot along the way including many mistakes ha! So here's how the hull has come along. This is my first time doing this so airbrushing is completely new to me too. Starting off with the Red layer. (apologies in advance for the poor photos, I hate my camera and should have waited for a nice bright day for the photos) Next I probably should have airbrushed the grey top half first.... but hindsight is a wonderful thing when you're a newbie, so I went for the black strip next. And finally I completed the grey top part of the hull and touched up a couple of little bits that needed going over again. It looks pretty damn good now so I'm very happy with how the hull turned out. I've now bought some PE railings and cranes so I can start to fiddle around and learn about PE soon. But the next step is to attach the wooden deck. One question I had with the railings is.... should I just airbrush the railings grey before cutting them from the sprues, or should I attach the railings now before putting the wooden deck on and just airbrush them once stuck onto the deck? I have no idea what is best. Quite fun this model making malarkey. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 I paint railings whilst still on the fret and touch in where the burrs have been sanded off later. The propeller shafts were painted anti-fouling red also by the way, just incase you didn't know that B20 next for the hull? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EwenM Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Looking good! I’m still hand brushing and given the size of this model not so happy with the results. Thought I would give the airbrushing a go on the next one. My wooden deck kit from wood hunter arrived yesterday, which will make painting all the deck fittings a lot easier, fit looks pretty good tho’ some holes needed a bit of enlarging. Big modelling fair here in Plymouth for armed forces day tomorrow so will be picking brains on staining/varnishing. what airbrush kit did you use? BTW how do I insert a photo on this site?! I’m using an iPad and the usual way don’t work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumble Bum Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Ah ok so paint the propeller shafts red, I've looked at lots of people's past models of the KGV and they all seemed to use gold or silver for the shafts, but if Red is the proper colour, I shall go for that. thanks. Are the actually propeller blades themselves still the gold colour? Yes I should do the B20, good point. I need to have a look how far along the B20 went along the hull. Not sure I trust this instruction manual ha! @EwenM I bought a Switzer air compressor for about £84 from amazon, and the actual airbrushes they come with were awful so I then bought a Neo for Iwata airbrush to go with it for about £70. Happy with it so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EwenM Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Hi, I’m quite confused about some of the colours I need for this build. I already have NARN 21, 22, 23 and 42. So hull and other vertical surfaces are sorted. The blue-grey for the side panel I’m sure I can mix up using perhaps some Humbrol 109 or 230 and adding some grey. so the bit I’m not sure about is looking down on the ship where the top of the main gun turrets and barrels are painted blue (XF50 according to Tamiya) but they have also got the upper decks in this colour which I’m assuming should be painted in non slip dark grey deck paint (NARN 23). Any help gratefully received! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EwenM Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 ....and just realised I’ve painted all the deck fittings in light grey (thankfully deck not stuck down yet!) presumably they should be the home fleet grey as well as the vertical surfaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Hi Ewen. i'm confused now too! What scheme are you doing? The 1945 scheme A as per the little graphic above? If so, all verticals are NARN 22 G45 light grey with the exception of the B20 blue-grey panel on the hull. All horizontals that can be walked on other than planked timber are NARN 21 G10 dark grey. Tops of all ventilators etc sticking up from the main deck, flag lockers, ready ammunition lockers for the AA weapons etc would just be G45 all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EwenM Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Yes, that one! Okay I think I’ve got it now, so I’m not using the NARN 23 Home fleet grey at all on this model. All the bits sticking up from the deck (sorry I don’t know what they all are) essentially painted the same colour as the vertical surfaces. So finally what about the top of the gun turrets and barrels, are they also G45, as opposed to the blue shown in the Tamiya painting guide. Many thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 17 minutes ago, EwenM said: Yes, that one! Okay I think I’ve got it now, so I’m not using the NARN 23 Home fleet grey at all on this model. All the bits sticking up from the deck (sorry I don’t know what they all are) essentially painted the same colour as the vertical surfaces. So finally what about the top of the gun turrets and barrels, are they also G45, as opposed to the blue shown in the Tamiya painting guide. Many thanks! The 14" and 5.25" turrets and barrels would also be G45. Pom Pom and Oerlikon barrels black or dark gun metal. The stuff on deck is mostly a representation of the air ventilators for lower decks. The Scheme A was a very simple design Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foeth Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) Three-colour sceme on the main gun barrels? THE C IN C HOME FLEET. OCTOBER 1944, SCAPA FLOW, ON BOARD HMS KING GEORGE V.. © IWM (A 26181) IWM Non Commercial License ROYAL VISIT TO HMS KING GEORGE V. 29 OCTOBER 1944, GREENOCK. THE KING AND QUEEN ACCOMPANIED BY PRINCESS ELIZABETH AND PRINCESS MARGARET PAID A FAREWELL VISIT TO THE BATTLESHIP HMS KING GEORGE V BEFORE SHE LEFT TO JOIN BRITAIN'S EAST INDIES FLEET.. © IWM (A 26226) IWM Non Commercial License A bit of counter-shading even? HMS KING GEORGE V IN THE EAST. NOVEMBER 1944, ALEXANDRIA. THE 35,000 TONS BATTLESHIP HMS KING GEORGE V ON HER WAY EAST.. © IWM (A 27009) IWM Non Commercial License Also below B-turret's rangefinder Edited July 5, 2019 by foeth 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 That you EJ? Counter shading is rather cool. Shall we agree on G10 on top and white underneath? If not white underneath then what? B55? Not many options left unless the sides are pushed down to B30... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foeth Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) Yes, it is EJ White underneath might well be possible. Hadn't really noticed it until today... HMS HOWE. AUGUST 1942.. © IWM (A 11730) IWM Non Commercial License Also present in the 1943 camo pattern of KGV, Howe, and Anson. It's everywhere, can't unsee. Edited July 5, 2019 by foeth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 I knew there was counter shading on all the barrels in the 1942-43-44 disruptive schemes but hadn't noticed it on the Scheme A before. Is it on the 5.25s as well or just the 14s? Maybe the barrel "vertical" segments are darker than G45 actually? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EwenM Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 @Foeth Hmm, interesting, so if the top of the turrets are darker might that be in the same blue/grey colour as the side panel on the hull? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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