Help! FAA Corsair MkII

[Valenstitch]

 I`m got my second Revel FAA Corsair On the bench, having been through all the corsair related stuff on here and given myself square eyes searching for relevant images I cant find any real detail regarding the ejector fittings for FAA BPF Corsairs, I have a couple of nice British Bombs, since I read that the FAA used British rather than US Ordnance, from an Airfix Tiffy which look suitable, however the "gubbins" from under the Tiffy wings for hanging them is much longer front to rear than the relevant fittings under the Corsair wings. Now I know that Revel have supplied the wrong drop tanks, since FAA Corsairs used the Brewster centre line one not the much later smaller pair often seen on US aircraft, but the pylons, for want of a better name are correct to a degree. Anyone got any polite suggestions? 

 

Granto

[Valenstitch]

Right, here is an image of my dilema, big Airfix bomb and Tiffy wing fairing and fins on the right, on the left is the small fairing for the Revel drop tank 

 

Here are the mounting points for the drop tank pilons, this all matches reasonably well with the images I have been able to find on the interweb. However, there are also numerous images of some "Heath Robinson" clamjamfreys under Corsair wings in different locations slightly outboard of these points. Any help would be useful!

 

Ta for lookin` no G!

 

Granto

 

[Troy Smith]

8 hours ago, Valenstitch said:

 I`m got my second Revel FAA Corsair On the bench, having been through all the corsair related stuff on here and given myself square eyes searching for relevant images I cant find any real detail regarding the ejector fittings for FAA BPF Corsairs, I have a couple of nice British Bombs, since I read that the FAA used British rather than US Ordnance,

Hi

 

a couple of points,  first, this would get more responses in the WWII section,  rather than here.

 

second, "since I read that the FAA used British rather than US Ordnance,"

this is a very broad statement, and I really doubt in the case of the BPF, given the supply chain logistics. (mostly US) 

I'd suggest that @iang  and @85sqn  may know more on this.

 

 Also,  some bombs were made with dual lugs, for both British and US mountings,  there have been illustration of this on Lancaster load out, with both types in one load.  Our bomb expert is @Selwyn  who maybe able to be more informative.

 

HTH

 

[Selwyn]

39 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

Hi

 

a couple of points,  first, this would get more responses in the WWII section,  rather than here.

 

second, "since I read that the FAA used British rather than US Ordnance,"

this is a very broad statement, and I really doubt in the case of the BPF, given the supply chain logistics. (mostly US) 

I'd suggest that @iang  and @85sqn  may know more on this.

 

 Also,  some bombs were made with dual lugs, for both British and US mountings,  there have been illustration of this on Lancaster load out, with both types in one load.  Our bomb expert is @Selwyn  who maybe able to be more informative.

 

HTH

 

The BPF used as far as I know  only  British bombs.  See in this   very informative film British 500lb bombs being prepped  (at 2.50). I believe that the US had stated that the BPF had to be self sustaining and not dependant on the US fleet train.

 

Selwyn

[dogsbody]

I found this on the IWM site. It's the only one showing both drop tank and bombs. In all the pictures showing just the tank, no other pylon/bomb rack is visible.

 

 

 

 

Chris

[Dana Bell]

Hi Valenstitch,

 

You might be better off finding which Corsair II you wish to model first.  For example, the aircraft Chris shows above is from a limited batch of 80 aircraft (JT555 thru JT634) that carried the original CL fuel tank; on all subsequent Corsair IIs the centerline fuel provisions were removed at the factory, while none of the earlier aircraft had the provisions for twin bomb racks.  I'm not really sure which drop tanks were used by the FAA once the centerline provisions were removed, but the Revell tanks (which I've not seen) might be correct.

 

(Also, knowing which aircraft you'll model will help you chose between the short wingtips and the short-short wingtips.)

 

On the original question about bombs and racks, I'm not going to be much help either - the "-1Ds" all left the factory with the same racks, but the records over here don't say much about any changes made in the UK or on its ships.

 

Best wishes with the project!

 

 

 

Dana

Edited June 3, 2019 by Dana Bell
note left out

[Valenstitch]

Thank you Gentlemen,

I am building JT410, Eagle Cal decals using the Revel FAA Corsair, no CL drop tank, there isn't one in the kit, only two smaller tanks that fit on short underwing pylons, I would asume due to the lineage of the kit. My query was regarding the actual fittings on the end of the pylon, the IWM image found by Dogsbody shows something there, but it`s not very distinct. if I cant find out what It is I simply won`t fit bombs, I dont take it that seriously, unless you have a full 360 walkaround you cant be 100% accurate anyway can you! But thank you anyway Dogsbody!

Thank you Selwyn for clarifying the situation regarding the BPF and their supply chain, that was exactly what I read, the Americans were not exactly keen to see the Royal Navy in the Pacific  and made it quite clear that they couldn't supply it, so the Royal Navy had to have it`s own fleet train supplied from Britain via the med and Ceylon to Australia and onwards to Manus and Ulithi, hence the British bombs, I read it in Norman Hanson's book "Carrier Pilot" and in Hank Adlam`s book "On and off the flight deck", the bit about the fleet train, not the british bombs, that came from numerous other sources. Even the Corsairs came across the Atlantic to Britain before going to the far east.

 

Granto

[Dave Swindell]

FAA Corsairs carried British 500lb bombs on standard British universal bomb carriers attached to the standard Corsair bomb carrier fairings.

The new Airfix Swordfish has a reasonable representation of these (top right)

[Valenstitch]

Fantastic!!!!!!!

3 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said:

FAA Corsairs carried British 500lb bombs on standard British universal bomb carriers attached to the standard Corsair bomb carrier fairings.

That's what I needed! Well, that and a new Swordfish apparently!

 

Thanks Dave!

 

Granto………..off to Hannants! (other model shops are available)

[MikeR]

Hi Valenstich,

 

I built a model of JT410 a few years back (LINK) and started a thread about it in the WW2 Aircraft section of the forum: LINK. The research thread was mainly about the propeller type/antenna fit/tailwheel length not what was carried underneath, but I just used the centerline tank on my take of the aircraft.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Mike.

[Valenstitch]

^{Hello Mike,}

^{I just followed your link, Nice Corsair! Here is my first effort tucked away behind two Spitfires}

 

Granto

[MikeR]

Nicely done!

 

If your still looking for references I suggest getting a hold of Dana's two Aircraft Pictorials. I bought both from Bookworld Wholesale and can thoroughly recommend both the books and the seller: Volume 1, Volume 2.

 

Mike.

[85sqn]

Hi chaps,

 

sorry away from my references at the moment but I have an article from Flight magazine regarding Blackburn providing bomb carriers for corsairs and other mods to lend lease aircraft. I also have another article about testing the FAA corsairs which has a photo again with British bomb carriers fitted to them. TBH the Revell pylons look abit undersized to me.

[Seahawk]

The info regarding use of Briitish bombs by the BPF and their carriage on Corsair pylons is all good as far as I know.  But, if you're building JT410, isn't it academic?  In post 6 Dana says that (prior to serial batch JT555-634)

On ‎6‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 2:51 AM, Dana Bell said:

none of the earlier aircraft had the provisions for twin bomb racks

So, unless you have a photograph,....

 

The Revell 1/72 Corsair could have severely undercut the superb Tamiya kit (cockpit detail is as good if not so well moulded) but it has been let down by poor initial research resulting in a mishmash of features from different versions.  I agree with @85sqnthat as representations of the pylons on a USN/USMC -D or Corsair IV the Revell pylons look undersized.  The tanks in the Revell kit are more appropriate to a post-war F4U-4 and have no place on a FAA aircraft.  I have never seen a photo of an FAA Corsair carrying any droptank other than the large centreline one: in 1/72 the representation of it in the old Hasegawa kit is good enough for me.  

[Valenstitch]

7 hours ago, Seahawk said:

The info regarding use of Briitish bombs by the BPF and their carriage on Corsair pylons is all good as far as I know.  But, if you're building JT410, isn't it academic?  In post 6 Dana says that (prior to serial batch JT555-634)

 

So, unless you have a photograph,....

 

The Revell 1/72 Corsair could have severely undercut the superb Tamiya kit (cockpit detail is as good if not so well moulded) but it has been let down by poor initial research resulting in a mishmash of features from different versions.  I agree with @85sqnthat as representations of the pylons on a USN/USMC -D or Corsair IV the Revell pylons look undersized.  The tanks in the Revell kit are more appropriate to a post-war F4U-4 and have no place on a FAA aircraft.  I have never seen a photo of an FAA Corsair carrying any droptank other than the large centreline one: in 1/72 the representation of it in the old Hasegawa kit is good enough for me.  

Hello Seahawk,

I did mention the Revel kits lineage, the wing tips are an extra sprue and that's about all they did to make the FAA version different from the F4U1A (I think), there are numerous omissions and incorrect details, such as the tanks which I agree have no place on any mark of FAA Corsair, but at less than eight quid I think the Revel kit is a decent effort if you put a couple of hours extra effort into the build, and yes JT410 is an early Mk II and may not be suitable for bombs, however, I do have another in the stash and there are another two options on the decal sheet which will enable me to build a much later Goodyear aircraft equivalent to a D and therefor any information regarding bits and bobs is most appreciated! And while photos are a useful source of information we all know that provenance is everything and unless you can tie an image down to an exact time place and event then it dosent always help, in the past I have seen the same image purporting to be two different things more than once, I do know that all the FAA Corsair Squadrons trained in ground attack while in Ceylon, that is mentioned in several memoirs, so a MkII with bombs is an option in my opinion!

 

Granto 

[Seahawk]

I suspect (others here will know better) that the ground attack training received in Ceylon related to ground strafing with machine guns (attack as low as you dare, never make a second pass, etc) rather than bomb delivery.

 

But, as ever, it's your model, to build as satisfies you.

[Valenstitch]

"Carrier pilot" by Norman Hanson ISBN978-1-909269-59-0

page 211 "To learn Fighter-bombing, we dropped 111/2 lb practice bombs on specified targets out in the thick jungle. These were not more than a few minutes from Koggala"

page 213 The objective was Pangkalan Brandang , an oil refinery in north-eastern Sumatra, about eight miles inland from the Malacca straights. Between us we provided 28 Avengers, 16 Hellcats and 12 Corsairs. Additionally we took along four Corsairs, each armed with two 500lb bombs, if only to show we hadn't been wasting our time at Koggala  

page 263 " The Corsair could carry quite comfortably two 500lb bombs, attached to racks fitted to the centre section of the wings; and with these we helped the Avengers to devastate the runways"

[Seahawk]

45 minutes ago, Valenstitch said:

"Carrier pilot" by Norman Hanson ISBN978-1-909269-59-0

page 211 "To learn Fighter-bombing, we dropped 111/2 lb practice bombs on specified targets out in the thick jungle. These were not more than a few minutes from Koggala"

page 213 The objective was Pangkalan Brandang , an oil refinery in north-eastern Sumatra, about eight miles inland from the Malacca straights. Between us we provided 28 Avengers, 16 Hellcats and 12 Corsairs. Additionally we took along four Corsairs, each armed with two 500lb bombs, if only to show we hadn't been wasting our time at Koggala  

page 263 " The Corsair could carry quite comfortably two 500lb bombs, attached to racks fitted to the centre section of the wings; and with these we helped the Avengers to devastate the runways"

Collapse of stout party!  In a weak attempt at my defence I'd say that the p.263 ref is pretty late on in the book by which time he is probably talking Corsair IV.  But you have provided chapter and verse that at least some Mk.IIs could be and were used for bomb delivery.   We live and learn.

 

Brilliant book, isn't it?  Probably my favourite WW2 pilot autobiography.

[stevehnz]

7 hours ago, Seahawk said:

Brilliant book, isn't it?  Probably my favourite WW2 pilot autobiography.

Yes, your's & mine both.

Steve.

[85sqn]

9 hours ago, Seahawk said:

Collapse of stout party!  In a weak attempt at my defence I'd say that the p.263 ref is pretty late on in the book by which time he is probably talking Corsair IV.  But you have provided chapter and verse that at least some Mk.IIs could be and were used for bomb delivery.   We live and learn.

 

Brilliant book, isn't it?  Probably my favourite WW2 pilot autobiography.

Na they didn't get MkIVs till out in the Pacific. I have quite a few photos of the Corsairs aboard illustrious with the two pylons taken around 1944 when they were gearing up for the East Indies raids. There's quite a few photos on the Imperial War Museum site. If you use corsairs and HMS illustrious as a search term. Mostly of the Corsairs upside down.

[noelh]

8 hours ago, stevehnz said:

Yes, your's & mine both.

Steve.

You can add me to the fan club too. I think it's long overdue a re-read. I have first edition from 1979. 40 years ago! 

Edited June 6, 2019 by noelh

[Valenstitch]

Honour satisfied all round Gentlemen! Thank you all for participating! 

I will put up a WIP this weekend.

 

Granto

[JWM]

On 6/3/2019 at 2:30 AM, dogsbody said:

I found this on the IWM site. It's the only one showing both drop tank and bombs. In all the pictures showing just the tank, no other pylon/bomb rack is visible.

 

 

 

 

Chris

I can see here only SINGLE (rather US style) bomb under left wing. Do you agree?

How it was with bottom fuselage window of FAA Corsairs? The Revell kit I think does not have it.

J-W

[Dana Bell]

Hi J-W,

 

The last Corsair II delivered with a bombing window was JT424; records on Corsair IIIs don't give much info on the windows; no Corsair IVs had the windows...

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana