Philippines 1941

[JWM]

Hi,

I've found a nice set of photos from US Army airplanes in December 1941 in Philippines. 

http://corregidor.proboards.com/thread/447/aircraft-philippines-1-december-1941

Unfortunately no photos of Philippines AF machines there. I have found some for Keystone bomber, which I posted in Interwar section. 

I hope it could be interesting for some of us.

Regards

J-W

 

[72modeler]

12 hours ago, JWM said:

Hi,

I've found a nice set of photos from US Army airplanes in December 1941 in Philippines. 

http://corregidor.proboards.com/thread/447/aircraft-philippines-1-december-1941

Unfortunately no photos of Philippines AF machines there. I have found some for Keystone bomber, which I posted in Interwar section. 

I hope it could be interesting for some of us.

Regards

J-W

 

JWM,

 

What an incredible photo collection! Sad that most of these aircraft were destroyed on the ground before they could have a chance to do some good. Slightly off-topic and my personal opinion, but Douglas MacArthur should have been relieved of command or court-martialed for his lack of  action, after having been warned of the impending attack by the Japanese and his flippant reply to that message. A lot of brave airmen, soldiers, and sailors were killed that could have made a difference. or at least delayed the Japanese onslaught. (That's a bigger pass than General Short or Admiral Kimmel got, and they didn't have the advantage of prior warning like he did.) Those shark finned Forts were so pretty! Thank you so much for sharing the photos with us.

Mike 

Edited May 31, 2019 by 72modeler
added text

[TISO]

Thank You for link.

Any info on colours used on A-27's (which brown, green and gray) and O-46 planes after the start of the war?

[JWM]

50 minutes ago, TISO said:

Thank You for link.

Any info on colours used on A-27's (which brown, green and gray) and O-46 planes after the start of the war?

The A 27 is said to be in Thai colours, so a kind of olive green and red brown  with blue gray from bottom, I think there are photos of o-46 in olive drab/neutral grey

Cheers

J-W

 

[TISO]

JWM both are rather exotic (IMHO that is understatement).

I'm not aware of any pic's of O-46 from PI after start of the war only stateside OD/NG planes.

As for A-27 i was thinking something on the line of Lend-lease P-40's but i'm not shure. Any experts on Thai colours here? 

[Graham Boak]

There is a colour photo including an A-27 in one of Jeff Ethell's colour collections, I believe.  Unless anyone can come up with NA's actual instructions, I suggest that any of the US colours in the same areas as RAF Dark Green and Dark Earth would suffice.  The Lend-Lease P-40s were a good match for those colours, but strictly the A-27s need not be, and probably weren't.

[Jackson Duvalier]

Wow-- this is great stuff.  Didn't know B-10s were still operational in 1941, looks like an excuse to build my Williams Brothers kit.  And an A-27!  And that P-35!  Thanks for sharing, JWM.

 

Piggybacking off 72modeler, Wendell Fertig (https://infogalactic.com/info/Wendell_Fertig) was much more the hero of the war in the Philippines than MacArthur, but he didn't have the heredity or the connections.  Nor did he affect a snazzy and photogenic corncob pipe.  MacArthur eventually returned to the Philippines, but Fertig stayed and organized and fought until he did.

[Jure Miljevic]

Hello

I suspect would be Thai A-27 were probably in the same colours as other USA produced aircraft (Hawk 75, Hawk II and Hawk III etc) imported shortly prior to WWII. In their book Curtiss P-36 hawk, part 3 (AJ press) Jiri Chodil and Seweryn Fleischer describe H.75 N colours as Medium Green 42, Rusty Brown 34 and Neutral Gray 43. There is a photo of surviving Thai H.75 N in Bob Ogden's book Great aircraft collections of the world. While green on this restored aircraft looks much like MG 42, grey on lower surfaces is significantly too light for NG 43. I cannot comment on brown as I have no idea what Rusty Brown 34 should look like.

I vaguely remember an article in French (perhaps in Avions?) about Hawk III which IIRC also includes information and photos of Thai aircraft. Will try to dig it out and find out more about it. Cheers

Jure

[JWM]

3 hours ago, Jure Miljevic said:

I vaguely remember an article in French (perhaps in Avions?) about Hawk III which IIRC also includes information and photos of Thai aircraft. Will try to dig it out and find out more about it. Cheers

I think I have this article, have to look for it . Brown is presented ther close to marron or chocolate - a bit dark and of reddish hue,

Cheers

J-W

[JWM]

15 hours ago, Jure Miljevic said:

I vaguely remember an article in French (perhaps in Avions?) about Hawk III which IIRC also includes information and photos of Thai aircraft. Will try to dig it out and find out more about it. Cheers

Jure

Jure,

I think it is Avions No 187 from May-June 2012, there is an article by M.Ledet on French-Thailand war in 1940. This is named "part1", so likely were next part(s) later in Avions, however I do not have the other volumes. All Thai machines on profiles and on photos are shown in bare metal or alu dope finish (except Martin on profile shown with yellow wings and tail surfaces). The order of battle from december 1940 quoted only Martin 139, Vough V935 Corsair, Curtiss Hawk III, Mitsubishi Ki-30, Curtiss Hawk II and Curtiss 75. 

Cheers

J-W

 

[spaddad]

On 5/31/2019 at 5:43 PM, 72modeler said:

 Douglas MacArthur should have been relieved of command or court-martialed for his lack of  action, after having been warned of the impending attack by the Japanese and his flippant reply to that message. 

 

Well said. In my opinion he then went on to compound this by insisting the US embark on the reconquest of the Philipines, a totally unneccesary campaign driven by nothing more than the mans vanity causing yet more deaths that could have been avoided.  Did the same thing in Korea, instead of stopping when the allies had regained their initial positions he once again caused more death & misery by pushing on far into the north. The worst kind of general, an out & out glory hunter.

Edited June 8, 2019 by spaddad

[Ed Russell]

3 hours ago, JWM said:

This is named "part1", so likely were next part(s) later in Avions, however I do not have the other volumes.

Indeed p46 of #188 has Part 2 of this series with some camouflaged profiles.

[Jure Miljevic]

Hello J-W and Ed

Yes, there are two more parts of this article. According to authors Thai aircraft had been delivered in silver finish and did not receive their camouflage until some time into the conflict with French, which is also stated in AJ press book. While I am certain there is another article which deals with Thai Hawk III dive bombers, their camouflage scheme probably would not be helpful in determining A-27 colours, unless Thais specified the same paints they used against (Vichy) French Indochina. Nevertheless, an interesting article about little known conflict with a fair share of exotik types taking part. Cheers

Jure

[JWM]

On 6/6/2019 at 11:14 PM, TISO said:

I'm not aware of any pic's of O-46 from PI after start of the war

On Russian web page http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Crafts/Craft26164.htm

 

There is a photo

described: Douglas O-46 from 4th mixed aviation group, Philippines, 1941

So here it is NMF overall (?)

Cheers

J-W

 

 

[72modeler]

6 hours ago, spaddad said:

Well said. In my opinion he then went on to compound this by insisting the US embark on the reconquest of the Philipines, a totally unneccesary campaign driven by nothing more than the mans vanity causing yet more deaths that could have been avoided.  Did the same thing in Korea, instead of stopping when the allies had regained their initial positions he once again caused more death & misery by pushing on far into the north. The worst kind of general, an out & out glory hunter.

Thank you. I had forgotten about the Philippines debacle- Roosevelt and Truman should have listened to Nimitz- a lot of lives would have been saved, as all of those island outposts would have starved on the vine, with no means of resupply or evacuation. BTW, is that a 601st A-1H I see there? I have a good friend who flew in that outfit- the two airplanes he  absolutely loved flying were the Spad and the Voo Doo!

Mike