1/48 - Lockheed (C)F-104C/G/J/S-ASA/M & TF-104G/DJ Starfighter by Kinetic - released - new Hypersonic Models F-104B/D conv. set - new CF-104D boxing in 2024

[Jabba]

Am I also correct in thinking that the S version did not have a gun as this was removed for the Sparrow avionics?

[Hook]

38 minutes ago, Jabba said:

Am I also correct in thinking that the S version did not have a gun as this was removed for the Sparrow avionics?

Some versions. The S came in two variants - CI and CB. The interceptor variant CI (Caccia Intercettore) aircraft had the gun removed to make room for the Sparrow avionics, the CB (Caccia bombardiere) fighter bomber model retained the gun but could not employ the Sparrow.

 

Also, the CI only employed the AIM-9B ( AIM-9L capability came only with the later ASA upgrades, and the big underfuselage catamaran Sidewinder launchers were an airshow static display load only since they were never cleared for flight!

 

One other small tidbit I until recently never knew about the S is that the extra strakes around thd aft fuselage were sometimes removed for the target towing role. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

Edited March 3, 2021 by Hook
Spelling

[Filler]

I was so excited when I first saw this, but gutted now that it looks like Kinetic are fudging it. As it seems a little unlikely they’ll be issuing a genuine S model, we can only hope that they acknowledge this and provide G decals. An Italian Orpheus(?) recce pod would maybe be a simpler way to have at least made it a more dedicated AMI kit.

 

To be honest, I thought Kinetic were better than this now (assuming that it isn’t just a box art error).

 

One other thing. This wider rear fuselage of the S; I’ve never been able to see the difference in photos. Does anyone know what the actual difference is as a dimension? Just wondering if at this scale it’s something like 1mm in diameter.

[franky boy]

11 hours ago, Filler said:

I was so excited when I first saw this, but gutted now that it looks like Kinetic are fudging it. As it seems a little unlikely they’ll be issuing a genuine S model, we can only hope that they acknowledge this and provide G decals. An Italian Orpheus(?) recce pod would maybe be a simpler way to have at least made it a more dedicated AMI kit.

 

To be honest, I thought Kinetic were better than this now (assuming that it isn’t just a box art error).

 

One other thing. This wider rear fuselage of the S; I’ve never been able to see the difference in photos. Does anyone know what the actual difference is as a dimension? Just wondering if at this scale it’s something like 1mm in diameter.

I don’t have as good an eye or knowledge as some others on BM for the 104 but can never spot the wider rear fuselage either. It would be interesting to know what the difference is in 1:48 scale as you say. 

 

Let’s hope Kinetic at least have a stab at making a genuine S model. 

 

James 

[Stephen]

11 hours ago, Filler said:

I was so excited when I first saw this, but gutted now that it looks like Kinetic are fudging it. As it seems a little unlikely they’ll be issuing a genuine S model, we can only hope that they acknowledge this and provide G decals. An Italian Orpheus(?) recce pod would maybe be a simpler way to have at least made it a more dedicated AMI kit.

 

To be honest, I thought Kinetic were better than this now (assuming that it isn’t just a box art error).

 

One other thing. This wider rear fuselage of the S; I’ve never been able to see the difference in photos. Does anyone know what the actual difference is as a dimension? Just wondering if at this scale it’s something like 1mm in diameter.

Why not wait until we see the actual plastic in the box? 

[Filler]

7 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Why not wait until we see the actual plastic in the box? 

It's a discussion forum and we're discussing it. And besides, I've got '#@~ all else to do these days.

[Filler]

Sorry @Stephen, I thought I should just expand on my post because I didn't intend to be rude. It's just that it is a discussion forum and while I'm no rivet counter type of critic, the box art which I presume Kinetic must have gone to some effort over, does give cause to ponder and even discuss the possibility that they have taken a bit of a shortcut to an S. No smoke without fire? I also think that this type of discussion can be educational, as the differences between the two are not that obvious and many including myself don't know of them. So we can learn that extra strakes, a different ejection seat, different cannon arrangements, a new engine and perhaps an imperceptibly larger rear fuselage are some of the key things that would maybe need addressing in the kit. And of course, appropriate decals.

[Hook]

1 hour ago, franky boy said:

I don’t have as good an eye or knowledge as some others on BM for the 104 but can never spot the wider rear fuselage either.

I believe the aft fuselages were identical. The jetpipes of the different J79 versions had the same diameter, after all.

 

One S-specific detail that seems to elude a lot of model makers (and modelers! 😎 ): the front edge of the S ventral fin has a more acute angle than on other marks. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[Homebee]

Let's have a look here with Google translate:

https://modelingtime.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17306

https://www.greenmats.club/forums/topic/590-f-104s-f-104s-asa-f-104s-asa-m-итальянские-старфайтеры-матчасть/

 

V.P.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Homebee

[Stephen]

2 hours ago, Filler said:

Sorry @Stephen, I thought I should just expand on my post because I didn't intend to be rude. It's just that it is a discussion forum and while I'm no rivet counter type of critic, the box art which I presume Kinetic must have gone to some effort over, does give cause to ponder and even discuss the possibility that they have taken a bit of a shortcut to an S. No smoke without fire? I also think that this type of discussion can be educational, as the differences between the two are not that obvious and many including myself don't know of them. So we can learn that extra strakes, a different ejection seat, different cannon arrangements, a new engine and perhaps an imperceptibly larger rear fuselage are some of the key things that would maybe need addressing in the kit. And of course, appropriate decals.

@Filler No offence taken.  When the Kinetic Pucara box art was initially shown the aircraft was depicted as carrying Mk82 Snakeeye bombs and met with comments that these were not carried and should not be included in the kit. The artwork was subsequently revised and there are no such weapons included in the kit. All I am suggesting is to wait and see,

[chrisov]

1 hour ago, Homebee said:

Let's have a look here with Google translate:

https://modelingtime.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17306

https://www.greenmats.club/forums/topic/590-f-104s-f-104s-asa-f-104s-asa-m-итальянские-старфайтеры-матчасть/

 

V.P.

Thats a great resource Hombee, thanks for sharing and to the originators.

[ICMF]

18 hours ago, Filler said:

One other thing. This wider rear fuselage of the S; I’ve never been able to see the difference in photos. Does anyone know what the actual difference is as a dimension? Just wondering if at this scale it’s something like 1mm in diameter.

 

They're identical.  The "F-104S has a different aft fuselage" was a myth invented by Francois Verlinden in the old Lock On book.  It's not true.

[hopkp]

Referring to earlier posts in this thread, I think it might be premature to assume that Kinetic won't do a 'proper' F-104S. I was looking this afternoon at my copy of the F-104G/TF-104G kit and noticed that the part for the 'faired-over' cannon port is already present on one of the sprues (though admittedly this isn't specific to the F-104S) and - more importantly - that the halves of the single-seat fuselage both have what look to me to be two 'semi-opened' locating holes in exactly the position that the additional strakes are fitted to the F-104S. These locating holes are not present on the fuselage halves of the two-seater version.

 

So, it may well be that Kinetic will add a new sprue with dedicated F-104S parts - i.e., the additional under-fuselage strakes, the central strake with the revised leading-edge angle, intakes with the necessary revised panel lines, etc. 

[Filler]

That sounds encouraging @hopkp. I must admit that my reaction was entirely based on the box art inaccuracy. But that is easily fixed and in fairness, Kinetic do a good job on their kits in the main, so fingers crossed. It’s not like I’m an authority on the subject and I’m not exactly obsessed by super accuracy, but the AMI Starfighters are the ones I’m really interested in as they’re the only ones I saw at airshows. I wouldn’t even mind if it was a G, as long as the decals are correct.

 

Thinking about the box art; if you just leave off the missiles, you’ve got a G in correct markings even if the box says S. Can’t really lose!

[hopkp]

20 hours ago, Filler said:

That sounds encouraging @hopkp. I must admit that my reaction was entirely based on the box art inaccuracy. But that is easily fixed and in fairness, Kinetic do a good job on their kits in the main, so fingers crossed. It’s not like I’m an authority on the subject and I’m not exactly obsessed by super accuracy, but the AMI Starfighters are the ones I’m really interested in as they’re the only ones I saw at airshows. I wouldn’t even mind if it was a G, as long as the decals are correct.

 

Thinking about the box art; if you just leave off the missiles, you’ve got a G in correct markings even if the box says S. Can’t really lose!

 

We can only hope.....

 

Like you, I've always had a soft spot for the Italian F-104s, having seen them at air shows and also having been lucky enough to spend a day at Grosseto shortly before the F-104s were retired. I also think that the RSV's 'Icarus' special colour scheme (http://www.916-starfighter.de/Large/Special/AMIcol6827.htm) was one of the coolest ever applied to a Starfighter. Mind you, I also remember the German 'Marine' F-104s very fondly, having seen them at air shows too a number of times (most memorably the year that one of 'The Vikings' demo pair came close to going supersonic at Fairford). Thinking about it all makes you realise how drab and soulless things like the F-35 are in comparison.....  

Edited March 14, 2021 by hopkp

[Hook]

16 hours ago, hopkp said:

I also think that the RSV's 'Icarus' special colour scheme (http://www.916-starfighter.de/Large/Special/AMIcol6827.htm) was one of the coolest ever applied to a Starfighter.

 

Hasegawa did these in both 1/48th and 1/72nd:

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/hasegawa-09578-f-104s-starfighter-nato-50th-anniversary--131600

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/hasegawa-00059-f-104s-starfighter--135622

 

Not sure about the larger box, but the decals in my Gentlemen's Scale one are Cartograf.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[Giorgio N]

On 3/3/2021 at 9:19 PM, Hook said:

Some versions. The S came in two variants - CI and CB. The interceptor variant CI (Caccia Intercettore) aircraft had the gun removed to make room for the Sparrow avionics, the CB (Caccia bombardiere) fighter bomber model retained the gun but could not employ the Sparrow.

 

Also, the CI only employed the AIM-9B ( AIM-9L capability came only with the later ASA upgrades, and the big underfuselage catamaran Sidewinder launchers were an airshow static display load only since they were never cleared for flight!

 

One other small tidbit I until recently never knew about the S is that the extra strakes around thd aft fuselage were sometimes removed for the target towing role. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

 

 

Just a couple of small corrections: yes, the CB subvariant generally retained the gun, however it was possible to see aircraft within CB units without the gun. This was standard for example for those aircraft serving in the nuclear strike mission, where that room could be used for an additional fuel tank.

Regarding the catamaran, this was not used on the S that instead featured single pylons on the lower central fuselage sides. These as you said were not cleared for flight, although I've heard that they would have been allowed for use in a war situation.

[Homebee]

It'll be a genuine F-104S! 😋 

Just still to modify the box art. They've answered me this will be done.

Nice as serious work from the Kinetic team. Thank you guys.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/Kineticmodel/posts/1835466733287096

New dedicated sprue.

Quote

New 1/48 scale F-104S Starfighter parts ready to test...

The air intakes are the key difference between S and other variants. Check the air intakes parts with Panel Liner Wash to a better view of the details.

 

 

V.P.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Homebee

[franky boy]

Excellent. Thanks for posting @Homebee

 

At last a genuine S out of the box. 

 

James

[exdraken]

that looks great!

 

[Filler]

Sorprendente!

[asgardiano]

there is an italian expert helping this kinetic project ! the kit will be stunning

[hopkp]

Excellent - one definitely won't be enough, the bank manager will be trembling behind his desk!

[Homebee]

The future Italian boxing will be a multivariant one!

- ref. K48093 - Lockheed/Fiat F-104G/S-ASA/M Starfighter

Source: https://www.luckymodel.com/scale.aspx?item_no=KI-K48093

Box art + schemes

 

Quote

Model Features:
Martin Baker IQ-7A ejection seat

• Radar module
• Avionics Bay (behind the cockpit)
• Detail NLG wheel well. 
• Bulged tires
• Positional flaps and slats
• New engraving technology for crisp panel line and laser engraving for superdetail
• New wing tip launcher
• New instrument panel for F-104G/S-ASA and F-104G/S-ASA/M
• BL104 pylon and AIM-7/Aspide launcher and 2 x AIM-7 with stencil.
• 2 types of IP (interceptor, bomber)
• Updated new intake
• Dual fin and new lower center line fin

 

 

 

V.P. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Homebee

[Stephen]

Released.

 

https://www.luckymodel.com/scale.aspx?item_no=KI-K48093