F.152 General Aircraft Hotspur II Glider

[Ventora3300]

Having completely gone overboard with GB fever, I thought I could put in this small kit of the General Aircraft Hotspur II Glider - no engines so must be simple!

 

I have been extremely impressed with all the builds going on in the 'Trainers' GB currently in progress with all the yellow paintwork so I thought I might cover two GB's with one kit and build this for the Frog Squad GB as well.

 

If I'm to make it, I can't start until 1st June and need to finish by the 9th, having started my other two kits in order first. 

 

I don't really know anything about gliders so here is a new arena in which I will need to to study up.

 

Lovely yellow and black colour scheme on this one.

 

I'm going to send away for that modelling knife.... Look at that fantastic yellow plastic! I must find a way of preserving some of that. The original crew appears to be missing so I have brought in a couple of trainees from a Novo Tupolev SB-2 Katyuska which I am using for spares. At least they came from a Frog mould.

 

Must try to get those transfers out into a bit of sunlight to clear the yellowing. Only 5 Gold Tokens this time.

 

 

 

 

 

[JOCKNEY]

Oh yes  Delighted one of these has made the list.

 

I have a stalled one in the Trainers GB, so was going to ask Enzo for an unbiased opinion on whether I could bring it across, it's Novo not Frog !

 

I would keep the lovely original yellow underneath and just add the black stripes. 

 

I am trying to finish a Hawker Henley in the Trainers GB and the yellow is being an absolute sod, 3 coats so far and it still looks shocking !

 

Good luck with this one

 

cheers Pat

[stevej60]

Nice one V,look's nicely molded too.

[Ventora3300]

15 hours ago, JOCKNEY said:

Oh yes  Delighted one of these has made the list.

 

I have a stalled one in the Trainers GB, so was going to ask Enzo for an unbiased opinion on whether I could bring it across, it's Novo not Frog !

 

I would keep the lovely original yellow underneath and just add the black stripes. 

 

I am trying to finish a Hawker Henley in the Trainers GB and the yellow is being an absolute sod, 3 coats so far and it still looks shocking !

 

Good luck with this one

 

cheers Pat

Thanks, Pat, yes the idea of retaining the yellow plastic hit me as well. I'll maybe do all the painting 'on the sprue' then assemble last. I must go over and have another browse through the Trainers GB - the builds there, particularly all that yellow paint,  inspired me for this one.

13 hours ago, stevej60 said:

Nice one V,look's nicely molded too.

Thanks, Steve, not much in the way of surface detail but it was probably manufactured from wood or skinned in ply at least - I'll need to read up and check.

[Rabbit Leader]

Another classic kit Mike and I must admit that all this sharp looking original plastic is definitely well worth the additional asking price these kits must go for. This has all the hallmarks for a quick and easy build, so is my tip to be the first completion in the GB gallery! 

 

Cheers.. Dave 

[Ventora3300]

On 27/05/2019 at 17:50, JOCKNEY said:

I have a stalled one in the Trainers GB, so was going to ask Enzo for an unbiased opinion on whether I could bring it across, it's Novo not Frog !

Thanks again Pat and much good work done already on your Novo version, and good info there which will give me a head start. I can appreciate the see-through nature of the Novo plastic (doesn't happen on all their kits, does it?) as that is exactly how the 'Katyuska' is , from where I sourced the pilot and trainee.

 

On 28/05/2019 at 12:48, Rabbit Leader said:

This has all the hallmarks for a quick and easy build, so is tip to be the first completion in the GB gallery!  

Thanks Dave, no pressure, then! Better get some ideas sorted out. 

 

Good info from Wiki:

The Hotspur Mark I was constructed from wood and was designed to accommodate eight fully armed airborne troops. Its wingspan was 62 feet (18.90 m) and it was 39 feet 3.5 inches (11.98 m) in length. With a full load (approximately 1,880 pounds (850 kg)), it weighed approximately 3,600 pounds (1,600 kg). The Mk I was distinguished from its other variants by the addition of cabin portholes along its fuselage, and hooks on the nose and tail to allow multiple Hotspurs to be towed together.[19] The two pilots, and later the pilot and instructor when the Hotspurs were used as training gliders, sat in tandem in the cockpit. It had a jettisonable undercarriage, and its unusual fuselage functioned like a lid; once the Hotspur had landed, the troops inside would throw off the top half of the fuselage and then climb out of the lower half, much like leaving a small boat. A total of 18 Hotspur Mk Is were produced, 10 by GAl and eight by Slingsby Aircraft.

 

Three variants on the original Hotspur Mk I were created. The first was the heavily modified Mk II,  which was redesigned partially to address changes in operational requirements and also to bolster the ground handling of the initial series of aircraft. The Hotspur Mk I wings had also shown considerable flex and the type had proved difficult to handle on the ground. In order to reduce stresses on the airframe, the fuselage was strengthened and wings were "shortened" by over eight ft each, resulting in a wingspan of 45 feet 10.75 inches (13.99 m) with the tips made square-cut and ailerons moved from the end of the wings to an inset position.

While maintaining its original all-wood construction and overall fuselage and empennage dimensions, the Mk II incorporated a modified fuselage which included altering the cockpit enclosure and a "deeper" canopy. Instead of using the "lid" (where the two pilots still boarded via the hinged perspex canopy),[24] two side doors were added from which troops would enter and depart. The seating was re-arranged, and a braking parachute added to the rear. Its other dimensions remained the same, however, with a length of 39 feet 3.5 inches (11.98 m) and a gross weight of approximately 3,600 pounds (1,600 kg), with eight airborne troops and some 1,880 pounds (850 kg) of equipment.[25]

A total of 50 of the early-production Mk IIs were modified into trainers as the Mark III,[13] by adding dual controls and instruments for the student pilot and an externally braced tailplane.[26]

 

As a comparison, an Airspeed Horsa carried 25-28 troops.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Ventora3300
Details for Mk II added

[Ventora3300]

On 09/01/2015 at 09:32, Aeronut said:

 

Just to clarify the undercarriage leg design. Frog modelled it as two parallel struts coming together just above the axle when in reality it was a single strut with a diagonal tie/release cable at the rear. Where the confusion might occur is that the rear of the main leg had a bent tube projecting out in a triangular shape for use as a handle when manouevring the leg on the ground or when refitting it into the wing.

I take this information from the Hotspur AP (details from which I can supply to anyone who asks).

Sorry for banging on but Britain's assault gliders (and the Hotspur was designed as one) would be my specialised subject if I ever appeared on Mastermind.

 

@Aeronut, I came across your previous input above and would be delighted to have you along on this one. I'm thinking about the undercarriage legs and that there may have been the main spar inside the cabin space so any internal seats will have been fore and aft of that. I can't promise to get it all right but want to do enough to enhance the build. A bit ambitious but I've also got it in mind to finish this one by 9th June so I can squeeze it in to the Trainers GB as well. Any input welcome.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Ventora3300

[JOCKNEY]

Hi Mike 

Have you had a chance to do anything with the Hotspur yet ?

With the imminent closure of the Trainers GB this weekend I must get my finger out and message Enzo to see if I can transfer my Hotspur over. Otherwise it runs the risk of joining the shelf of doom of other unfinished builds !

cheers Pat

[Rabbit Leader]

1 hour ago, JOCKNEY said:

With the imminent closure of the Trainers GB this weekend I must get my finger out and message Enzo to see if I can transfer my Hotspur over. 

Perhaps you need to pass the "three tick" GB test as well Pat?? (see Chat post #558)

Cheers.. Dave 

[JOCKNEY]

2 minutes ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Perhaps you need to pass the "three tick" GB test as well Pat?? (see Chat post #558)

Cheers.. Dave 

Oh dear, well it was a nice idea while it it lasted !

[Ventora3300]

1 hour ago, JOCKNEY said:

Hi Mike 

Have you had a chance to do anything with the Hotspur yet ?

With the imminent closure of the Trainers GB this weekend I must get my finger out and message Enzo to see if I can transfer my Hotspur over. Otherwise it runs the risk of joining the shelf of doom of other unfinished builds !

cheers Pat

Pat, the Hotspur has been out of the box for a bit of build planning but I've come to the conclusion it's not a good idea to rush it - needs some cockpit detailing and I just got some more supplies in yesterday. I'm going to push the Southern Cross on a bit more before I start this one. Coming soon, though.

[JOCKNEY]

Good for you, I plan to do the same like a pair of instrument panels etc

I had toyed with the idea of an opening canopy but it would mean cutting the clear part and I don't think I'm either brace enough or good enough to pull it off.

cheers Pat

[OneEighthBit]

Bit late to the party but I've been researching the technical details of the Hotspur for decades, same as Aeronut (we share a lot of notes), so if there's any specific questions let me know.

 

Regarding the Frog kit - it's a bit off dimensions wise but it'll do considering there isn't any other kit. The biggest issue is that the canopy is too way too far back and needs to sit a good 5mm further forward.

 

If you want some inspiration, Aeronut and I helped Santiago & Raul Hrubisko with their Hotspur series. I researched most of the paint schemes and small differences between each.

 

Edited June 9, 2019 by OneEighthBit

[Ventora3300]

On 09/06/2019 at 22:30, OneEighthBit said:

Bit late to the party but I've been researching the technical details of the Hotspur for decades, same as Aeronut (we share a lot of notes), so if there's any specific questions let me know.

 

Regarding the Frog kit - it's a bit off dimensions wise but it'll do considering there isn't any other kit. The biggest issue is that the canopy is too way too far back and needs to sit a good 5mm further forward.

 

Thanks, OneEighthtbit, I've been reading up on reference material - thanks for all the excellent input.

I laid my hands on a drawing of the Hotspur II and wanted to check how the canopy position looked on the kit - it has been suggested that it might need moving forward a bit. However, to my eyes, the OOB shape looks OK.

 

 

I was on a business trip last week by train and this small kit came along so I could do a bit of cleaning up and dry fitting of the main parts 'as the train took the strain'. I also did a bit of masking as I had the idea I would get better demarcation lines if I did as much painting as possible before assembly. Windows need to go in the fuselage so that needs painted first. Also, the yellow on the underside will just be the kit plastic unpainted.

 

So masking and first coat paint on...

 

[Ventora3300]

Got the first coat of H116 Dark Green on and removed the masking for the black stripes - predictably, a bit of bleed at the raised panel lines - plan to clean that back with thinners on a cocktail stick.

 

I'm trying to remind myself why I though it was a good idea to go this far with main paint before starting to detail the empty fuselage - oh yes, I wanted to put the windows in and avoid having to mask them since they are circular!

 

 

I followed the camouflage plan on the instructions but afterwards noticed that I've interpreted the darker bits as the Dark Green whereas in fact the 'key' tells you that these are the Dark Earth bits - not sure what the final look will be. 

 

[PeterB]

Did the same a while ago but no real problem unless you want to be accurate for a particular machine. The RAF camo schemes are a bit more complicated that the A and B mirror schemes most people know of -  there were also official reverse A and B schemes like I have on my desert Hurricane IID, ie same pattern but colours swapped.

[JOCKNEY]

Lovely work Mike

I'm feeling very guilty about not finishing my Hotspur in the Trainers GB.

Keep up the god work !

 Cheers Pat

[Rabbit Leader]

Looking great Mike, that’s a novel way of painting before building so am keeping an eye on how you go. Now for circle masks, I can recommend this mob who do a wide range of masking products for all these nasty spots. Here is a sample link, however they do have many other products on hand. 

 

https://shop.maketar.com/?product=yellow-kabuki-masking-circles-combo-economy-pack

 

Cheers.. Dave 

[Ventora3300]

On 20/06/2019 at 00:51, Rabbit Leader said:

Now for circle masks, I can recommend this mob who do a wide range of masking products for all these nasty spots. Here is a sample link, however they do have many other products on hand. 

 

https://shop.maketar.com/?product=yellow-kabuki-masking-circles-combo-economy-pack

 

Thanks for that, Dave, very handy for wheels as well, I think. I'll add that to my list of suppliers for modelling accessories - it's getting longer than my list of suppliers for replacement parts for the home and car......

 

I got struck by the 'Modeller's Hoodoo' on this kit - tried to tidy up the edges of the black stripes - used thinners and wondered why the surface of the exposed yellow plastic was going all gooey. At the same time, realised I had the relative width of the stripes wrong - not equal widths as I had done but should be 3' Black / 6' Yellow.  Had to take all the black off one wing to repair the damaged surface (lost the raised panel lines as well) and ended up removing it all and priming and re-painting the underside sections of the wings in M24 Trainer Yellow.

 

Doesn't look too far away from the yellow plastic still exposed on the fuselage halves so at least some of the kit plastic can remain on show.

 

There'll be a Transmission break on the Hotspur for holidays but fuselage windows and inside detailing next.

 

 

[OneEighthBit]

Hey @Ventora3300

 

Sorry for taking so long to reply Been away with work so not been able to jump on this.

 

So a few things which are probably a bit late as you're a long way down the build process...

 

1) The camouflage pattern is wrong. I don't know what the Frog instructions are based on but on the Novo issue the pattern is correct and printed on the bottom of the box.

 

2) The scale drawing you found is for a balsa flying model - I had the plans myself a while ago and gave them away. The thing to remember they've been altered to make a flyable scale model so they aren't dimensionally correct.

 

I dig through my archives and pulled out a scale drawing from GAL/RAE and scaled it to 1:72 and put the Frog kit (Novo in my case) over it so you can see where the major misalignments are:

 

 

Accounting for camera distortion the main issues are:

• The cockpit opening is one frame too long and slightly the wrong shape so it ends too far back.
• The small "porthole" under the cockpit is in totally the wrong place.
• The wing on the model is 0.1" (7.2" @ 1:1) too wide at the root which puts the leading edge too far forward by about 1 frame. This pushes the starboard door forward which compounds the problem of the cockpit opening coming too far back.

So yeah, dimensionally the Frog/Novo kit is all over the place and needs a lot of work to correct properly.

 

One other note - the interior was painted aluminium and not cockpit green like other aircraft. Not sure of the exact type of paint off the top of my head but it was also used in some parts of the Horsa tool, specifically in the interior under the cockpit floor.

 

Regarding the undercarriage. I hope the following explains how the real thing looked versus what's in the box. The "jug handle" should be on the front side.

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2019 by OneEighthBit
Added info on interior colour

[Mr T]

Thanks for the information, mine is too far down the line to do much  and no way is the cockpit being re painted but it will be offered more of less in the spirit of the Group Build. The undercarriage stuff is good, at least I think I have that bit more or less right. 

Martin on hols from a very hot Ljubljana. 

[JOCKNEY]

Hi 

Have you had a chance to make any further progress on this one ? 

It was looking the business last time we saw it

Cheers Pat

[Ventora3300]

On 20/07/2019 at 23:05, JOCKNEY said:

Hi 

Have you had a chance to make any further progress on this one ? 

It was looking the business last time we saw it

Cheers Pat

Coming soon - going all out on Southern Cross at the moment and if you look at those progress pics' you'll see that where some are building outdoor sheds and some walls, my cover story is that I'm re-decorating the main bedroom and the wallpaper pasting table is doubling as a modelling work bench!

[Ventora3300]

Getting a bit more progress on this Hotspur II now.  The windows have been fitted - I just kept the one on the starboard side opposite the cockpit, although as @OneEighthBitsaid, it's obviously not correct (why would it be there? - there seems to be an excellent view out of the canopy already).

 

A bit of detail has been added to the cockpit inner walls and floor and seats added. I also put in a couple of 'sticks'. and made up a rear bulkhead and IP's. My original plan was to fit seats inside the fuselage for the Paras and hinge the access doors so you could see in but I'm keen to move on to other builds so I'll leave that idea until another time.

 

The two pilots I had borrowed from a spare 'Katyuska' actually went in to the 'Southern Cross' as the back office crew so all I seem to have available is the crew from a spare Airfix Mitsubishi 'Dinah' - it's a bit of a tight squeeze for them, even though they came with no boots.

 

Black stripes are going on the wing undersides again - supposed to be 3ft wide black stripes separated by 6ft of yellow. My scaling was not spot on as I appear to be drifting from the paint guide in the Instructions. I pre-painted the black sections with the yellow to seal up the masking and avoid any bleed through.

 

[JOCKNEY]

Looks the business, having a yellow kit is close to cheating but it's a Hotspur so all is forgiven 😉

 

Can't believe we have 3 Hotspurs on the go at the same time, it's a bit like buses, you wait ages for one then 3 come along at the same time !

 

Look forward to the next instalment 

 

cheers Pat