FAA Avenger 2 second cockpit: mystery solved? Well, maybe, a bit.

[Seahawk]

A hardy perennial question on this site is "what did the 2nd cockpit look like in FAA Avengers?"  Several of us have tried to answer this but there's been no authoritative answer.  Most of what we have has come from glimpses into the cockpit from still photos or a few fleeting frames in film footage.   I seem to recall @tonyot pulling together most of what we know in his build of the Hobbyboss 1/32 Avenger a few years back.  Anyway, those interested in the question could do worse than look at the photo of Avenger II JZ554 on p.63 of Aeroplane for June 2019.  It is a view downward onto the aircraft from the starboard side.  The light is catching a flat table in front of the observer (who is offset to port as per the original USN configuration) which extends 60% or so of the way across the fuselage.  There is something on the table but it looks like some tool of the observer's trade, or maybe a Morse key.  NB that this aircraft does not appear to be equipped with ASV radar.  I have reason to believe that on ASV-equipped aircraft there was a display built into the back of the pilot's headrest and a wheel on the table for training the radar aerials.

 

NB also that this aircraft has its invasion stripes outlined with a thin black line.  I have seen this on predominantly white Swordfish but never before on a TSS-camouflaged aircraft.  I am ever so slightly suspicious that the photo has been retouched.

[stevehnz]

Now I just have to remember to look out for this in September. Thanks for the heads up there.

Steve.

[85sqn]

I read the article, I was interested that it was the aircraft flown by Davies and Shirmer. The same team that went on to fly JZ127 that I modelled last year with the V-1 kill below the cockpit. It led me to look up FAA avengers again and apparently there is a photo or drawing. From this page: 

 

 

The really excellent booklet 'TBM/TBF Avenger in detail' by 'Wings and Wheels Publications' has some excellent diagrams and a photo of the British rear seat configuration.

Unfortunately I don't have access to a scanner but I will try and take photographs latter and send them across.

I will PM you if I have success.

Regards

Jim 

 

If anyone has a copy of this photo/drawing, I'd love to see it.

[Seahawk]

I have the book but am away from it at the moment.  I bought this book precisely because I thought it would throw light on this issue.  If I recall correctly, it does not.  It is indeed a really excellent book but, as I recall, the photos and drawings of the central cockpit showing a seat in place are of early USN aircraft, not properly equipped FAA ones.  Happy to be corrected but I recall being disappointed at the time.  Still an excellent reference on the Avenger though.

[85sqn]

Ahh okay Seahawk. Be interesting to see, perhaps it was a basis for the FAA cockpit?

[Seahawk]

9 minutes ago, 85sqn said:

Ahh okay Seahawk. Be interesting to see, perhaps it was a basis for the FAA cockpit?

Yes, I think it was: the FAA put back the seat the USN had taken out and then added stuff so that the man sitting there could do more than just observe the world passing by.  The message I take from the photo is that if you put in the seat and add a large flat table in front of it, you're most of the way there.  Good enough to impress the casual observer peering in through the canopy, at least in 1/72 scale - which, as we all know, is the only one that counts.

[85sqn]

Other known items in there: control column stowed on the port cockpit wall, some flying instruments probably limited to the basic six, and rudder pedals.