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Christer A

Classic Airframes deHavilland Hornet F.3

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Last year I ran across a little gem:

47930413751_20ed595824_o.jpg

The price was right, so there was no option other than to buy it.

In it, there was the usual amount of fine CA plastic, possibly of Sword origin.

47930413586_3f7a0abe5c_o.jpg

 

47930404908_cf4e54660d_o.jpg

 

47930413271_ef6b6d220d_o.jpg

 

Oh? There was a little pile of resin too? Nice surprise!

47930401717_d579f8cb8c_o.jpg

 

This was not a pleasant surprise though

47930402012_17ce9ccaef_o.jpg

Vac-formed canopy? Never done one of those before, but they look scary!

 

Anyhow, the decals look nice;

47930404378_9145246918_o.jpg

 

Instructions are clear, but I'm not sure about the color call outs for the camouflage.

47930412801_1099829b05_o.jpg

Dark Green and Dark Sea Grey over PRU Blue? The pictures from Kai Tak looks VERY faded...

 

I do have one set of refereces in book form:

47930401602_36864f352d_o.jpg

International Air Power Review #10.

 

The research (well, I looked at previous builds here and so on) was pretty clear on on thing.

There exists not a perfect Hornet kit, since correct drawings have not surfaced on this side of 2015 or so.

I plan to do the following:

Extend the rear fuselage with two plugs, 6mm on total.

Get some proper belts for the seat (Eduards late RAF set should do I guess?)

Some people have claimed that a Ultracast Spitfire seat looks better than the kit resin item. I do have some seats from my Eduard Spitfires that I could use...

Detail up the main gear bays, preferably deepen them since the bottom is currently the outer wing.

Replace the main wheels, since they are of the wrong diameter and wrong tire pattern (I think? Barracudacast have a lovely set of wheels that are suitable though.)

Do something about the spinners that are too short.

The last bit is the hardest to do, but a friend of mine just ordered a high-tech 3D printer and since my Dayjob is CAD designer, then it should be not so hard to draw something up provided I can get some proper dimensions.

 

Right, it seems that this serial kit starter is about to start another one.

Again.

:oops:

 

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52 minutes ago, Christer A said:

Dark Green and Dark Sea Grey over PRU Blue? The pictures from Kai Tak looks VERY faded...

 

 

Yes,  given it's relatively short service and production, there are more schemes than you'd expect.  The above colours are the Intrude scheme

 

see 

On 19/04/2012 at 21:29, David A Collins said:

I thought I'd start my first thread with a group photo of the current work-in-progress Frog Hornet collection.

The intention is to have a model of each front line RAF squadron/relevant mark depicted.

To date the collection includes:

64sqn F1 UK high altitude fighter (Bottom right)

65sqn F3 UK late scheme day fighter (Bottom middle)

19sqn F3 UK early scheme day fighter (top right)

41sqn F3 UK intruder cammo (top middle)

33sqn F4 FEAF late scheme ground attack cammo (bottom left)

45sqn F3 FEAF early scheme ground attack (top left)

29033986398_95b84031fc_b.jpg&key=f1bba61

So, 6 down, and only one to go (80sqn FEAF early scheme day fighter)

 

 

52 minutes ago, Christer A said:

Vac-formed canopy? Never done one of those before, but they look scary!

 

you have two...  There are plenty of info on how to do this,  new blade, go carefully and slowly is the main rule. 

http://falconmodels.co.nz/howto.html

Quote

Hints and tips for using vacuum-formed replacement canopies

Trimming:

Insert a new blade into your modelling knife or scalpel. To separate the canopy from its base, score very gently around the ledge moulded at the bottom. Do this very lightly at first, with minimum pressure. Repeat the process until the canopy pops away from the ledge. If you score too heavily at first you risk slipping and ruining the canopy. Finally, any rough edges can be cleaned up by lightly sanding with fine wet-and-dry paper. If you intend separating the canopy for display in the open position, we suggest cutting the break-lines before you cut the canopy from its base.

 

Gluing:

Cyanoacrylate (superglue) can be used to fix the canopy to the kit. It gives a fast-setting permanent joint, but fumes given off when setting can cause frosting on clear parts. Where possible, mask around the joint with masking fluid or tape. PVA (white glue) is also useful as it is partly gap-filling, doesn't attack the plastic, and dries clear.

 

Painting:

The best way to achieve crisp and convincing frame lines is by applying pre-painted strips of decal film. Paint part of a sheet of clear decal film, then cut strips of the correct width with a sharp blade and a straight-edge. Decal film sticks better to a painted surface than to bare plastic, so you will have to paint an undercoat on the frame lines marked on the canopy. This technique may not be suitable for canopies with large or irregularly shaped framed areas. For these canopies we suggest you mask the clear areas with clear adhesive tape and then remove the masking after painting.

 

Details:

Most aircraft canopies are fitted with handgrabs, latches, locks and mirrors. Take note of these details when studying close-up photos of the cockpit area you are working on, and fabricate them from plastic card, stretched sprue or other materials. Some photo-etch manufacturers include such items in their ranges. In our endeavour to produce thin clear mouldings, it may happen that the edges of the canopy are in fact too thin for scale appearance. It is a relatively simple matter to build up the thickness from the inside using strips of adhesive cut to the width of the frames. We recommend adhesive vinyl sheet as used by signwriters and in the automotive industry for signage and striping on cars. The adhesive is very durable.

 

52 minutes ago, Christer A said:

Do something about the spinners that are too short.

I have not read this before.   I'd check about this first.

I know you have some other threads already bookmarked,  I'll put a @David A Collins  and @John Aero as they maybe able to confirm, or deny this point.

 

HTH

T

PS you need to eliminate the upper wing panel lines too.  This has been shown on a build here.

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@Troy Smith,I'm gobsmacked by your encyclopedic knowledge of all things British wingy things.

For sure, Britmodeller would be a much poorer community without your valuable insights!

Ok, so it's called the intruder scheme?

Immidiate post war RAF paint schemes are a confusing lot...do you hold on line classes ?

;)

 

Thanks for all the help so far!

I'll do the best I can on this Hornet, and currently I have not been this pumped to start a kit for a long time.

Today, big H got an emergency order for some much needed Airscale instruments, Eduard belts and Barracuda wheels, and a few other bits and Bobs.

 

 

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Hello Christer A -  I have the Classic Airframes Sea Hornet in my stash so am interested to watch how you build this one

CJP

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I started one of these many years ago, but it was taking me so long that I eventually lost interest and gave it away. I’ve got the attention span of a dead rabbit according to one of my friends.

 

Good luck

 

John

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, CJP said:

Hello Christer A -  I have the Classic Airframes Sea Hornet in my stash so am interested to watch how you build this one

CJP

Welcome aboard!

The Sea Hornet NF.20 still looks nice, but whoever designed that radar nose for NF.21 couldn't be too happy with it, from an aesthetic perspective!

As a designer myself that works for people that sometimes comes with very strange demands, and are not allowed to change basic things I fully understand how its possible to end up with a nose like that, but really.  

 

6 hours ago, Biggles87 said:

I started one of these many years ago, but it was taking me so long that I eventually lost interest and gave it away. I’ve got the attention span of a dead rabbit according to one of my friends.

 

Good luck

 

John

Thanks John!

Attention span of a dead rabbit you say? I think I suffer from the same, together with a goldfish memory and a geological modelling pace...

The perfect storm really.

 

Anyway, Troy the Magnificient says that almost all vertical panellines should go way from the top wing. That would be these then, plus maybe the ones aft the engines.

47937313472_19999b7cac_o.jpg

Will doublecheck more before filling them!

 

It looks nice ompared to its bigger brother though!

47937334576_3b9674e371_o.jpg

 

Looking at the bottom wing like this

47937313342_426dab1513_o.jpg

Things start to get complicated!

http://users.skynet.be/BAMRS/dh103/wing design.htm

The main spar is probably a bit forward of the dual panel lines that CA has drawn, or so the picture tells me.

But there should anyway be a spar in the bay, and the landing gear goes behind that, so the idea that the landing gear opening in the nacelle is too far forward has some merit, I think. Without proper line drawings on how it actually looks it's a bit of a mess to guess how it should look.

Hmm....maybe I should whip out a construction idea in CAD (I use the same tools as Airfix does after all!) and use that as a base.

 

Cutting the fuselage is more straigh forward I think!

47937313242_141f515484_o.jpg

Two cuts, instead of one, just to spread the taper a bit.

With a 6mm plug in one place it could lead to a noticable step in the taper of the fuselage, but 2 might fool the eyes a bite more.

 

Also, I couldn't help but noticing the ejection pin towers...

47937327503_5e7584b6c0_o.jpg

They are HUGE! It looks like something needed for High Pressure Die Casting for Aluminium or something....

I shall not complain (much) about Airfix ejector pins anymore...

 

But in the end, it is a beautiful bird, and shoulld make an excellent partner to the Mossie above.

Edited by Christer A

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Posted (edited)

Hi Christer A,

The other big change to the CA kit is the relocation of the main undercarriage legs 6mm rearwards. This includes shortening the doors at the front too. 

The undercarriage bays also need deepening to the underside of the top wing skin. I have detailed drawings and dimensions for everything - no need to guess.

I will update the Hornet photo thread with my workings as promised. It will explain all.

 

I look forward to following your progress.

Edited by David A Collins

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Thanks David!

6mm rearwards movement of the leg. It shall be done!

I'll keep a close lookout on the photo thread.

 

Also just ordered Vailiant Wings No8, no turning back now!

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Christer A said:

Thanks David!

6mm rearwards movement of the leg. It shall be done!

I'll keep a close lookout on the photo thread.

 

Also just ordered Vailiant Wings No8, no turning back now!

 

Hi Christer A,

 

The Valiant Wings book is excellent from a technical basis, and second-to-none in this respect in the use of original manual detail extracts and close up photos..

 

However, please be aware that there are errors in its colour profile artwork.

 

The best two references for colour profiles are:

  • The artwork created by Mark Gauntlet in Tony Buttler's book: DH Hornet and Sea Hornet by Dalrymple and Verdun. This is spot-on.
  • Also, the colour profile artwork is very good too in: Sea Hornet "From the Cockpit" by Alan J Leahy.
Edited by David A Collins

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I would love one of these kits to plutter around with!  Good luck with yours.  I will be watching agog.

 

Regards

 

Martin

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1 hour ago, David A Collins said:

 

Hi Christer A,

 

The Valiant Wings book is excellent from a technical basis, and second-to-none in this respect in the use of original manual detail extracts and close up photos..

 

However, please be aware that there are errors in its colour profile artwork.

 

The best two references for colour profiles are:

  • The artwork created by Mark Gauntlet in Tony Buttler's book: DH Hornet and Sea Hornet by Dalrymple and Verdun. This is spot-on.
  • Also, the colour profile artwork is very good too in: Sea Hornet "From the Cockpit" by Alan J Leahy.

Thanks for the headsup!

Details and close up photos would just what I need to keep the inspiration flowing.

Profile artwork is not so important just now, since my mind is set on building the iconic WB909

Fraaaeeesh.jpg

 

Still, if I happen to cross path with more Hornet kits, that might change!

 

48 minutes ago, mike romeo said:

I would love one of these kits to plutter around with!  Good luck with yours.  I will be watching agog.

 

Regards

 

Martin

Welcome along!

Plastic will not be harmed for another few days though, but come next weekend it should be in full swing since I have roughly 60 hours modelling time scheduled over 3 days 😎

 

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Hello Christer A,

 

I have made a start on replacing the old links to the Classic Airframes DH Sea Hornet Work In Progress Build. The first couple of pages have been updated, but there's plenty more to do.

 

Also regarding your chosen Hornet WB909, I'll post a couple of additional references to it here aswell.

 

 

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Interesting subject matter. Seems like each day I come here and I learn about an aircraft I didn't know existed!

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13 hours ago, David A Collins said:

Hello Christer A,

 

I have made a start on replacing the old links to the Classic Airframes DH Sea Hornet Work In Progress Build. The first couple of pages have been updated, but there's plenty more to do.

 

Also regarding your chosen Hornet WB909, I'll post a couple of additional references to it here aswell.

 

 

Thanks David! Those 4 pages that you've updated were very helpful. 

A question about the fuselage extension. You choose to cut and lenghten more or less right above the tail wheel, while I was planning to do two cuts in the fuselage a bit forward. My reasoning is to avoid having to add back lots of details that will be lost during sanding and filling, and with two cuts also lessen the jump between different fuselage widths and taper.

I haven't cut anything yet, so there is still time to change my mind...

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11 minutes ago, Christer A said:

Thanks David! Those 4 pages that you've updated were very helpful. 

A question about the fuselage extension. You choose to cut and lenghten more or less right above the tail wheel, while I was planning to do two cuts in the fuselage a bit forward. My reasoning is to avoid having to add back lots of details that will be lost during sanding and filling, and with two cuts also lessen the jump between different fuselage widths and taper.

I haven't cut anything yet, so there is still time to change my mind...

 

Hi Christer A,

 

Its up to you where you extend it. On balance I chose bulkhead 7 as its mostly covered by the fin and tail plane that can be re-located rearwards very easily as they but-joint to the fuselage anyway. This location also doesn't lead to lots of re-shaping work on the main fuselage.

 

The Hornet tail cone attaches at bulkhead 7, so a natural break line is present anyway.

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After careful consideration and toying with the idea to cut the fuselage right in front of Bulkhead 7 I discarded the idea. Looking at the Airframe book which arrived on friday I saw that the tail plane has a peculiar root extension (or whatever the term is) and I probably would've made a mess of restoring it to the proper shape I decided to push on with the initial idea.

Let's harm some plastic!

47986928607_a74f67e48f_o.jpg

So far so good! The good thing is that tha plastic is quite thick so one does have a bit of stock to play around with. That will make the sanding easier later!

While the front fuselage were a bit more manageble I took a long hard look at the shell/link ejector chutes. For sure they need opening and neatening to a square shape. This is just the start.

47986924163_24e35b03b7_o.jpg

After that it was time to brave the unknown! My previous cut pieces were sliced in half so I only have to worry about one fuselage side at the time.

This way I can align the pieces the right way so that the fuselage itself doesn't twist around the length axis.

47986923943_b4a1e93347_o.jpg

Some sanding required, I'm sure!

Also, please disreagard the big drop of Tamiya cement on the fuselage....

While this hardens for a day or so, I decided to have a little look into the main gear bayes.

47986976331_8cfcb4337b_o.jpg

I need to represent the main wing spar (where the whit plastic strip runs) somehow, and then build up a bay round that. the square things in front of it are the intended mating points for the landing gear according to Classic Airframes. According to me, that space is filled with Merlin engine plumbing and stuff...

Looking at the cowlings for said engins I noticed that the rear lower one is quite off too!

47986923798_714853aa37_o.jpg

It shouldn't be angled as much, but at least it starts very close to the main spar, and then follows the firewall.

A good illustration was found in the Airframe book, so this book is already helping, even though it doesn't have full 3D CAD data that I could peek into while at work...

 

Somehow, I also need to fill the cavern here

47986976161_e60ebb6536_o.jpg

But a few spars back and front, gear bay ribs, some stringers and other stuff and it should start to look more interesting!

That'll have to wait until some time later, for now it's still in the cutting off phase...

 

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This should be an interesting watch! Nice work so far

 

Rob

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Great work so far on this lovely looking sleek Aircraft.

Keep up the good work

All the best

Chris

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Thanks Chris & Rob!

I just learned that a friend of mine got brand new 3D-printer, so I urgently need to CAD some stuff for him to print, like the engine and brake olil tanks in the main landing gear bays...

I wonder if I can do that while at work, and just bill that time onto a project I don't like, like Wally would've (the bald guy from Dilbert)

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Creating parts for 3D printing is not an easy task! I'm also not used to design stuff in 1/48 scale, thats for sure.

I made two tanks for my mate to print. The prop feathering tank like this:

47998022242_ec2333c17a_o.png

And the engine main oil tank like this:

47998060161_b8a7c81a8c_o.png

They're to be connected with hoses, and then some pipeworks that goes into the engine bay.

It could be tricky, but all the maintenance manual pictures in the Airframe book are invaluable!

I have the feeling that @David A Collins helped with the research here, much thanks for that!

 

It will be very interesting to see how they turn out after 3D printing. These are tiny parts....

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My 3D printing chum was fast!

48003230777_aa90aa1338_k.jpg

48003230552_1da655a3b6_k.jpg

48003230537_fe4e7e2af8_k.jpg

48003199233_4fbf68dd24_k.jpg

 

Yeah, this looks good enough for me!
 

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They were even more excellent when I saw them with my own eyes!

This weekend has been very busy with lots of good progress, so good in fact that I'll break down it in 3 reports instead.

 

Update #1 Cockpit!

Cockpits are fun, that for sure. Probably more fun than finishing a model...

Anyway, I first cast my eyes onto the seat. I thought that it looked a bit boring compared to Mr Collins 1:1 example, and I've seen someone use an Ultracast Spitfire seat to great effect, and since my stash contains a number of Eduard Spitfires, some with resin cockpits I thought I should use one of those.
48031607693_7b237bcece_o.jpg
The top and sides were sanded down a bit to better match the CA seat. It didn't take too long to loose the top struts connecting the seat to the rear armour though, but a check in the Airframe book showed no such struts so their loss was minimal.

Dodged that one!

The armour plating had a strange looking lump at the rear:
48031670222_d12e8a5284_o.jpg
It seems actually to be something else so I made a small ladder shape with some support brackets at the top. It looks more interesting this way.

A quick check to see that the seat sits properly
48031607073_63e54f77a0_o.jpg

48031670147_50c6b44dab_o.jpg

It seems to work!

The small bottle on the back armour is apperantly an incendiary bomb according to the book. Either that is a missprint or the worst idea ever.

Quite handy with one big lump of resing though! Someone has done a great work with the masters.

 

I also fixated the resin sidewals but refrained from detailing them further.
48031606998_4d19092ae0_o.jpg

After this it was time to hit the paint booth. Black was the order of the day, but that would look too dark so I used Tamiya NATO black instead. The seat was painted with Tamiya Hull red. I tried to paint the seat with a totally different red brown mix so I used some Mission Models paints and ended up with shade that was almost identical. So much effort for so little gain...

I finished the cockpit with a dry brush and called it a day.

48031606808_eb4b506b45_o.jpg

The day after I added some belts, control stick and teeny tiny instrument dials.

Great pictures and labelling are available in the book and the Airscale Decals do have some matching descriptions but in the end I couldn't see what was what in the Airsacle instructions so in the end I went with what looks cool.

So much for accurate...

I soon hade it all glued into the fuselage and made sure to not include any nose weights 😎

48031669692_2a43a3ba1c_o.jpg
Things left to do are to add a gunsight, and maybe some cover over the instrument panel.

 

End of report #1

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Time for update #2 then.

This is a small one, but quite jolly.

I had filed down the plastic extension to the fuselage filled them with some heavy duty filler.
48031567316_81f06a0f25_o.jpg
This stuff is hard and doesn shrink but it's a nuisance to sand, so I only use it for these special occations.

I find that the front part of the fuselage has had a big Vampire design influence, which might not be so strange since i guess the designers of the Spidercrab and Hornet most probably were the same guys...

I opened up the holes for the spent shell casings and links:
48031670062_d87505742f_o.jpg
To drill a square hole is anything but easy, and no amount of scraping with a scalpel blade seemed to help either, but by borrowing a tweezer with square cross-section I was able to push it into the plastic making a passable square hole.

 

Since the cockpit was done, there was nothing else to do but to cram the fuselage together,
48031606688_d29b055f99_o.jpg
Not possible to neatly glue the entire fuselage in one go, so the first joing was decided to go onto the upper fuselage, since that join is the most visible one (and the plastic is almost half the thickness compared to the bottom!). I do suspect there will be quite a lot of sanding and filling here...

One thing to sort out before calling the fuselage finished is off course fit the resin gun insert and trying to deduce if the under fuselage ID-lights were used on the F-3 and not only the FAA variants....

End of update #2

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Hi Christer A,

 

Nice progress. I think the group of three downward ident lights was on the Sea Hornets only.

 

I'll check my references and confirm later.

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