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1 hour ago, Rob de Bie said:

I have some scrap parts of a Dutch F-104, 

OK, I have to admit to being a little jealous about that... :) 

 

1 hour ago, Rob de Bie said:

Imagine my amazement when I saw the result of this photo, which gives a very different impression, with my best match being much too green.

 Wow, that's weird.  Optics and photography continue to amaze and confuse me.  It can be frustrating to rely on photographs (especially old ones) for color matching when you realize how far off they could possibly be! 

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5 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Actually thinking about it, have you done a test of your color options on the black base color ? That may also darken them up ? 

Yes and no. I have some models the were black based and painted these colors, but I haven't put them on the test car. I should do that though so I can put it right next to the decals for comparison.

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13 hours ago, opus999 said:

Thanks for the suggestions!

Too be honest, you quest for help with color is futile. No matter how accurate you might believe you have the picture, under any light, the end result for the viewer is never the same. For instance, I use only my crappy vivo phone to view the pictures, as I don't have a working computer. But even if I did, my monitor would have settings that will never match yours, and same goes to everyone else.

 

Basically, we can only tell you if the colors match on our screens, and we can suggest lighter or darker colors based on a side by side sample picture, but in the end, you are really on your own.

 

I know that you will get the color right, and don't worry if the camera isn't picking it up perfectly, most of that is beyond your control my friend.

 

Looks like you are on the home stretch, and you did your 80's self proud, she looks a WHOLE lot better this time around!

 

Anthony

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On 6/30/2019 at 11:56 PM, Stalker6Recon said:

Too be honest, you quest for help with color is futile.

Yes, that is true. I get frustrated researching colors on the computer for the very reasons you mention.  Still... there might have been a remote chance that someone knew what color worked best because they did the same kit or knew that so-and-so used those decals. :) 

 

In the end I got a really close match using Chevrolet Engine red over a white base and then carefully dusting it with Ford Engine red until it matched the decals on the wing. I'm super happy with how it turned out.

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So... What color to paint the rockets???

 

The original Testors instructions called for Olive Green over the entire rocket. I found a set of instructions from an Italeri kit that has decals for the same BuNo I am building and it too says to paint the rockets overall O.G. Any pictures I find on the internet, the rockets are too small, or in the wings' shadows and I can't tell what colors they are.  Other modelers seem to be all over the place although the most consistent scheme is gray body/O.G. warhead/Metal fuse -- which is what my F-84E had for it's rockets.  Given that my F-84E subject was just a couple of years earlier than the B-57, that seems to be a logical choice.

 

Does anyone have any knowledge about this? I'm coming up empty...

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I have painted them lt. grey/off-white bodies. Green warhead and metallic fuse. Thats the best i can offer ? 

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5 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

I have painted them lt. grey/off-white bodies. Green warhead and metallic fuse. Thats the best i can offer ? 

That seems consistent with other rockets of that era. I'm leaning that way right now since my experience with Testors ordinance painting instructions has been less than stellar.

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Due to unforeseen circumstances I was unable to get to the bench for a couple of weeks.  But I am now able to model again. Plus, the rest of my family is in the midwest visiting the in-laws for 3 weeks, while I need to stay home because, being only 9 months into my new job, I only have about 4 days of vacation saved up. So, with nothing else to do on the weekends....

 

Friday I was able to paint the rudder.  I matched the color of the decals by spraying Testors Chevrolet engine red over a white base.  That seemed a little too orange, so I lightly dusted Testors Ford Engine red over that until it looked like it matched the decals on the wings. Between yesterday and today I finished all the decals. Plus I painted the engine intakes -- I had sprayed them with Tamiya TS-30 silver leaf, but wanted to paint the fan blades with Testors Steel.  Which was a serious pain in the butt and I can't say I'm totally thrilled with how they turned out, but it will have to do.  The intakes were all one molded piece, so I had to use the finest brush I had and carefully get in there and try to keep the paint only where I wanted it.  ugh. Anyway here's how it looks:

 

Kt8dst1.jpg

 

I had to put it on a shelf to make room on the bench for my CF-188 which is finally getting some attention after a month and a half.

 

Yesterday I also made some sway braces for the bombs out of styrene rod.  They don't look terrific, but they will do and I put the ones I made in the back, and the original kit ones in the front -- I doubt anyone will be able to see the ones I made, even if they tried! :) 

 

R8Ukxiy.jpg

 

I also decided on a paint scheme for my rockets and painted them.  I still need to paint the silver tips.

 

koMpsGz.jpg

 

Gluing the bombs and rockets on the wings will be a challenge since the pylons came from a different kit and the curve of the wing is a little different than the curve on the upper sides of the pylons.  Well, we'll see....

 

I just need to clear coat tomorrow and do final assembly and this one will FINALLY be in the books! 

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17 minutes ago, opus999 said:

Gluing the bombs and rockets on the wings will be a challenge since the pylons came from a different kit and the curve of the wing is a little different than the curve on the upper sides of the pylons.

Sand and check the fit. When its as good as its going to get. Use gel C/A it is your best friend here. I do this often and its always worked for me. 

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What a disaster!!!! I carefully cleaned the whole model and then clear coated it.  I worked in sections because its the only way I could think to get a consistent gloss coat. I did the wings first and then the nose.  I used Tamiya X-22 thinned with GSI Mr. leveling thinner at 2:1 thinner to paint. Now, 4 hours after I did the wings, I discovered that the colored parts of the decals (not the clear carrier) have a sandpaper-y texture and that air bubbles formed under the decals in spots. Here is the under side.

 

ArM3tkx.jpg 

 

And of course the top is even worse:

 

cMiBcSZ.jpg

 

iLoOUdz.jpg

 

MEvkHQ4.jpg

 

I don't get it! I made sure there were no air bubbles in the decals, so where did these come from?  Why did the colored parts turn sandpapery? was it a reaction with the Tamiya/thinner over coat? I think this might be the first time I used thinned Tamiya as an over coat -- I usually hand brush Aqua Gloss on.  Maybe I should've done that instead.

 

Most importantly, can I fix it? I have a hard time believing I can because they are really messed up. I had been looking at them off and on during the day and they were nice and smooth, but I walked away for the last 45 minutes to do other things and that's when everything seemed to go south. 

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Ouch ☹️ ... Looks like there was a reaction between the Tamiya or your thinner and the inks in the decal. 

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Leave them overnight.  I had a similar experience with some decals (unfortunately I can’t remember the brand) that went on nice and smooth but then wrinkled up horribly, such that I almost binned the model.  Lo and behold in the morning they had returned to a nice smooth state and snuggled down into panel lines and over protrusions.

 

AW

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1 hour ago, Andwil said:

Leave them overnight.  I had a similar experience with some decals (unfortunately I can’t remember the brand) that went on nice and smooth but then wrinkled up horribly, such that I almost binned the model.  Lo and behold in the morning they had returned to a nice smooth state and snuggled down into panel lines and over protrusions.

 

AW

Having a cool head is the best approach, isn't it?  I will see how it looks in the morning... hopefully my experience will be like yours!

 

From a reasonable distance, it still looks good, so all is not lost. ;)

 

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1 hour ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Ouch ☹️ ... Looks like there was a reaction between the Tamiya or your thinner and the inks in the decal. 

Yeah, the inks seem to be the culprit since the clear film is nice and smooth.

 

I had a similar experience in High School, when I made a 1/72 Heller F-86.  It was the first model I'd ever found with Norwegian decals, and a Sabre to boot (love 'em!). I sprayed Testors Gloss Coat on the model after the decals had set for a couple days and the decals wrinkled up horribly! They're still wrinkled! I have the old bird on very high shelf downstairs.  Hopefully this will turn out better than that experience!

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This sucks, I hope that they level out, hate to see the final steps undo all the nice work you have put into this bird. Since I am so new to modern modeling, I have absolutely nothing to offer you beyond guessing.

 

That said, if this were my build, I would do as advised and give the decals a day or two to level out on their own. If that fails, I would flood them with every decal setting solution I have, starting with one brand, going thru their range, and moving to the next if that fails. The reasoning behind this approach (which very well may be faulty) is simple. If the paint has been protected by a good clear coat, dousing the decals with all these different products would probably end one of two way. First, if there is love from the modeling God's, they would settle down into perfect painted on decals. Or second, the decals would become obliterated, allowing you to simply wipe them off carefully using a Q-tip, giving you a second chance to recoat the plane with hopefully a clear coat that prevents the undercoat from affecting the decals, and putting a new set on.

 

That is what my brain would make me do, if anyone has detailed reason why NOT to use this approach, please let me know, so I don't make a bad situation even worse in the future. Speaking of future, do you use that as a clear coat before decaling? Seems like a wide number of modelers use this with excellent results.

 

Hope all is well,

 

Anthony

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Interesting subject and some really useful info in your quest to build this model!    Things seem close to completion, but I'm still going to follow this and see how the final product turns out.

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Hello @opus999 I don't have time for an in depth reply right now, but good work so far! If you want more info take a look around my site IPMS UK Canberra SIG, I have builds and detail albums and tons of photos. 

John

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So, the decal situation has improved somewhat. The stars and bars have smoothed out quite a bit, though not glassy smooth, you have to look pretty close to see anything wrong.  The "USAF" on the bottom smoothed out except for the really bad bubbles, which went away a little, but are still pretty noticeable.  Of course, the USAF on the top is the worst of the bunch, and while slightly better, still looks pretty bad. But, on the bright side, the light has to hit it just right to see any problems.

 

So, given that, I've kind of decided to cut my losses and finish it as is.  Besides, given a couple more days, they may smooth out more.

 

20 hours ago, Stalker6Recon said:

I would flood them with every decal setting solution I have,

That was my first impulse and was about to do just that, when I recalled some folks reporting decal solvents attacking clear coats. Luckily I sprayed a bunch of the clear coat on my paint mule and decided to put some of my two solvents on there.  Wow, what a mess! The clear coat fogged up pretty bad. I decided maybe I wouldn't give that a try.  Besides, the clear coat top is probably harder than the decal and might prevent it from conforming anyway.

 

20 hours ago, Stalker6Recon said:

Speaking of future, do you use that as a clear coat before decaling? Seems like a wide number of modelers use this with excellent results.

I used Future a few times early on after getting back into the hobby.  Using an airbrush I was never able to get anything smoother than an orange peel and I experimented with all sorts of thinners and techniques and finally just flat gave up.  I know some people have had terrific results with it, but I'm not one. What I use instead is Alclad's Aqua Gloss.  It is water soluble and levels out so beautifully that I can hand brush it with a hairy stick and get terrific results. the back half and the spine of the B-57 were top-coatted using this method. I haven't had a ton of luck getting it to spray with a nice finish, but brush paining has not let me down as long as I make sure it's not too thick to produce runs. But that rarely happens.  To give you a couple examples of how aqua gloss looks hand brushed as a decal-sealing coat, see my Hasagawa F-86 and my Hasagawa CF-104.

11 hours ago, mdauben said:

Things seem close to completion, but I'm still going to follow this and see how the final product turns out.

Welcome aboard! Better late than never! :) 

 

8 hours ago, canberra kid said:

If you want more info take a look around my site IPMS UK Canberra SIG, I have builds and detail albums and tons of photos.

Fantastic! I'll check it out, although I'm pretty much done with this one, I've got another that's going to be re-worked into a South east asia scheme.

 

Worked on all the fiddly details tonight, which took much longer than I thought (doesn't it always?). For the ordnance, I used Micro-Krystal Klear because I was afraid that the CA might fog the Black paint.  Although it takes a while to set, it's pretty strong stuff.  I did the same with the landing gear doors as well. 

 

QhmKpyP.jpg

 

On the bright side, the ordnance covers up the worst bubbles in the "USAF" :D 

 

Here it is on its feet next to the "old" B-57. What a difference!

 

P88VhiT.jpg

 

Here's a glamour shot:

 

awQ5cgw.jpg

 

I'm not terribly happy with the rockets, as they look a little toy-like to me.  Unfortunately I scavenged them off of the Testor's kit and it seem that I didn't do a very good job cutting them off of the sprues, so they look a little chewed up. I was considering doing a wash on them to make them look a little more realistic, but I'm pretty sure the wash would just show of all the chewed-up parts. :( Except for that and the decals, I am very happy with how this turned out. And the decals look pretty fantastic if you don't get within about a foot. I must say though, a gloss black finish is more stressful than NMF because it shows every dang fingerprint and piece of dust there is!

 

I still have one part to glue on after it dries (a pitot tube I believe) and I think this one is in the books. Hopefully I'll get an RFI up soon.

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24 minutes ago, opus999 said:

QhmKpyP.jpg

 

Me doth think i see a set of F-4 phantom walkways on that decal ? Is your next build a Phantom ? Or do you have one going in the Phantom build ?  

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Congratulations on getting her done, and you are correct, what a difference from the old to new. Also agreed that at this range, everything looks perfect, including those rockets that you hate. You should give yourself more credit, you had an uphill battle, and you win! I do not have the courage to even attempt a gloss finish, that is way beyond my skill level will very be. I am curious about metal foil though, that is something I would love to try on a nice B-17 in the future, there is probably no way I could spray shiny metal aircraft.

 

Look forward to your next WIP, so I can keep pestering you with my questions!

 

Anthony

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Stalker6Recon said:

I am curious about metal foil though, that is something I would love to try on a nice B-17 in the future,

Its an interesting technique that is labor intensive hut worth the results for late war thru mid 1950's USAF Aircraft. Ive done several models using Micro-scale foil adhesive with kitchen foil, that or bare metal foil products. Members like rob lyttle use aluminum foil tape and get excellent results with it. Just practice on a junk kit before you start your project. 

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle

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On 7/16/2019 at 3:31 AM, Stalker6Recon said:

I do not have the courage to even attempt a gloss finish, that is way beyond my skill level

You should experiment a little -- I thought the same as you and I've found that using decanted Tamiya spray paint with a little bit of Mr. Levelling thinner can make a very nice gloss finish.  Frankly I'm amazed every time I do it.  Now, it's not a perfect glassy gloss finish, there's some surface imperfections when you look close, but hey, compared to what I used to do... I'll take it!

 

On 7/16/2019 at 3:31 AM, Stalker6Recon said:

probably no way I could spray shiny metal aircraft

This was another thought I had, and I gambled on spraying parts of a 1/72 B-36 my dad and I were working on with Alclad polished aluminum.  I'd read that if you get the gloss black under coat right, the Alclad polished aluminum gives you great results.  So I used a rattle can gloss black enamel, which dried pretty smooth, and then carefully sprayed the Alclad to build it up in thin layers (so that it didn't attack the Enamel base coat) and I was totally amazed how easy it was and how terrific it looked.  I've seen people practice on plastic spoons.  Maybe that's worth a try before committing to spraying a model with it.

 

On 7/16/2019 at 3:31 AM, Stalker6Recon said:

I can keep pestering you with my questions!

You bet... that's why I'm here!  :)  

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On 7/16/2019 at 7:03 AM, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Its an interesting technique that is labor intensive

I started a spare MiG-15 kit using this technique.  I have to admit it looked terrific, but I kind of got bored with it and put it away for a while. If I could finish the whole thing it would look fantastic.

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On 7/15/2019 at 9:35 PM, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Me doth think i see a set of F-4 phantom walkways on that decal ? Is your next build a Phantom ? Or do you have one going in the Phantom build ? 

Good eye, Dennis! I used those on my Navy F-4 from a couple of years ago. I was scavenging the formation lights off of the sheet for my F-18's, since they look more realistic than the kit decals.  So, no F-4 in the immediate future, however I do have a couple Accurate Miniatures F-4 kits I got from ebay for less than $10 because they had no instructions, box or decals.  I recently got a decal sheet to make one into a late '80's USAF Euro I scheme. That same sheet had Iranian decals, which intrigued me.  So at some point I will be building a couple F-4's, but they're not on the horizon yet!

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1 hour ago, opus999 said:

however I do have a couple Accurate Miniatures F-4 kits I got from ebay for less than $10 because they had no instructions,

Im building an accurate min. F-4C/D as i write this. I can photo the instructions if you need them ? Its the old 1/72 monogram kit re-boxed so if you can find the instructions for that, they will also work. Monogram stretched the design as far as the could just like the 1/48 phantom. They made both F-4C/D's as well as F-4J's with both scales. The parts to turn this into an F-4J are in the box. The wing prevents an F-4B as it has the wheel bulges of the later aircraft. 

 

Dennis

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