All black or almost all black 110?

[Holzhamer]

I’m about to start a new project, building Wilhelm Herget bf 110 C while at 7./NJG 3.

Looking at the 2 photos below, easily found on the web, the 0lane doesn’t seem t9 be an “all black” 110. I looks to me that some portions of the upper fuselage at least have some other colour visible on patches. Now this could be a problem in the photo (not likely in my opinion) or perhaps traces of the original 70/71 paint.

it seems some 110 from the Nachtjager had a maritime 72/73 upper surface splinter camo while supporting the kiriegsmarine channel dash. Can this be the case? Appreciate any information that can help my troublesome mind relaxing 

 

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/HC1kMCtoTQ6wZVot7

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/zoLMYhGSfhDCS6Ct7

Edited May 24, 2019 by Holzhamer

[tango98]

If I remember correctly there was an article on this particular Bf110 in an old issue of Scale Models (or perhaps Scale Aircraft Modelling) back in the late 1970’s. Unfortunately I no longer have my 1970/1980 copies but perhaps one of our other members has a copy of the article that they could scan for you.

Sorry I can’t be of more help.

 

Cheers

Dave

[72modeler]

5 hours ago, Holzhamer said:

it seems some 110 from the Nachtjager had a maritime 72/73 upper surface splinter camo

That might have been the case, but in the photos of his Bf-110C I have linked below, it looks to me like the overall black finish has been worn down on the upper nose and area under the canopy, as well as the port upper wing at the root enough to expose the original camouflage paint, whatever that was. Not much of an authority on Luftwaffe camouflage and markings, so maybe one of our other BM'ers can be more helpful. I'm betting the finish was not very durable and easily worn away.

Mike  

 

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/17/93/ae17934024a47c0e186278ee523deccd.jpg

 

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/whats-the-story-in-balamory-or-in-this-case-lueneburg.48792/

[Stew Dapple]

I wouldn't have thought that an aircraft would be repainted in the Maritime Scheme for the short duration of an operation like the Channel Dash, repainting even just the uppersurfaces of a Bf110 is a pretty big and involved job and would not be undertaken lightly.

 

As well as 'permanent' black the Luftwaffe did have both black and white water-soluble paint available for use in night or winter operations and it could be your black 110 was repainted in this, with any original paintwork showing beneath most likely to be either RLM70/71/65 or possibly RLM74/75/76.

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

[Holzhamer]

7 hours ago, 72modeler said:

That might have been the case, but in the photos of his Bf-110C I have linked below, it looks to me like the overall black finish has been worn down on the upper nose and area under the canopy, as well as the port upper wing at the root enough to expose the original camouflage paint, whatever that was. Not much of an authority on Luftwaffe camouflage and markings, so maybe one of our other BM'ers can be more helpful. I'm betting the finish was not very durable and easily worn away.

Mike  

 

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/17/93/ae17934024a47c0e186278ee523deccd.jpg

 

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/whats-the-story-in-balamory-or-in-this-case-lueneburg.48792/

72modeler, I have to agree with you because that second photo on the thread link is, as an educated guess, the exact same plane as the one showed in the frontal shot with Wilhelm standing up inside the cockpit. The wear of the black coating explains why other lighter shades show in certain areas of the plane. Thank you for your splendid help

Edited May 25, 2019 by Holzhamer

[Holzhamer]

5 hours ago, Stew Dapple said:

I wouldn't have thought that an aircraft would be repainted in the Maritime Scheme for the short duration of an operation like the Channel Dash, repainting even just the uppersurfaces of a Bf110 is a pretty big and involved job and would not be undertaken lightly.

 

As well as 'permanent' black the Luftwaffe did have both black and white water-soluble paint available for use in night or winter operations and it could be your black 110 was repainted in this, with any original paintwork showing beneath most likely to be either RLM70/71/65 or possibly RLM74/75/76.

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

Stew, I’m not too sure about the maritime colours being used in several bf.110 for a very short period either, albeit not for the same reason you mention. I just think that those planes were used as air cover precisely  during the night/early dawn hours of that operation, so why bother painting them in day time camouflage in the upper surfaces  anyway? Another can of worms if you ask me.

As for your second paragraph, I have no clue if some, or all for that matter, 110 used in the NachtJagd were repainted at local maintenance or if some were factory delivered  already in overall black. In the last hypothesis it would make sense that the color as much more durable than those field applied.

Thank you very much for your great insights, they certainly help me clarifying a bit about this

[Seahawk]

The story of Bf 110s with 72/73 uppersurfaces for the Channel Dash was picked up by Eduard for one of their 1/72 boxings.  From memory it looks like the exact same aircraft.  I wonder where they got it from?  I must admit I don't find the photos convincing evidence and the logic of a repaint for a few hours' work in conditions of total air superiority eludes me.

[Holzhamer]

20 minutes ago, Seahawk said:

The story of Bf 110s with 72/73 uppersurfaces for the Channel Dash was picked up by Eduard for one of their 1/72 boxings.  From memory it looks like the exact same aircraft.  I wonder where they got it from?  I must admit I don't find the photos convincing evidence and the logic of a repaint for a few hours' work in conditions of total air superiority eludes me.

Exactly! I can’t find any photo or source that could point towards that camouflage option

[Troy Smith]

found this which maybe of relevance?

 

Me Bf 110 JEC 00531 by Jeffrey Ethell Collection, on Flickr

 

and this

Me Bf 110 JEC 00555 by Jeffrey Ethell Collection, on Flickr

[Holzhamer]

Troy, that second photo (colourised or genuine color film) sure proves that the use of upper greens in nigh fighting 110s did in fact exist. If it’s the maritime 72/73 or just the pain factory 70/71 I cannot tell; since demarcation between 2 green shades is visible. Again, as an educated guess I find more likely that a factory painted 70/71 over 65 can get a field applied black, in this case in lower surfaces mainly (and from a head-on view apparently). Just look at the way those rudders look with some black trimming around the edges. It is possible that Wilhelm machine had a similar field paint method.

The first photo is a good sample of the commonly seen all black livery (factory painted IMO).

Thanks for the valuable input,