Looking for some advice please

[Duncan B]

I am currently underway with my first ever WW1 build, the Eduard 1/48 Fokker D.VII. I am almost at the stage where it's time to mount the top wing and am looking at the complicated cabane strut set up of the kit. My question to anyone who has built the kit is would it be easier to mount the top wing on the outer struts first then build the cabane struts or is it best to build them first then mount the top wing?

I'm sure it's quite simple to anyone with some experience of building biplanes but it's giving me the heeby geeebees! (I do have a jig which may or may not help!)

 

Duncan B

[Black Knight]

In 1/72 on D.VII I secure the outer struts on the lower wing first, then attach the top wing. When this is solid I add the cabane struts, a couple on one side [1st side], let set then the other side [2nd side], back to the first side, finish that side then the 2nd side last of all

 

hth a bit

 

PS. I too have a jig, but I've found it useless, too much faffing about setting it up. I've got the struts done in less time

[pheonix]

I scratch build biplanes also mainly in 1/72 scale but recently I scratch built a Gunbus in 1/32. In all cases I find that it is simplest to attach the outer struts first and wait for them to be thoroughly dry. Then adding all the reamining struts is simple and no jig is required - just some simple card supports while the outer struts are put into place.

 

P

[alancmlaird]

Arghhh! I've built many biplanes over the years, and usually did the interplane struts first.

 

Until now!

On advice from a fellow-member, I found it much easier on my current 'pair of trainers' Tiger Moth build, to do the centre-section struts first. But with one caveat - always give the lower wing a little 'tweek' to increase the dihedral by a degree or so, so that when the interplane struts go on, they are slighty in compression, rather than in tension, or they might tend to spring loose when handling during the inevitable rigging process.

 

As phoenix says, letting the glue set for a couple of days whichever method is used, is vital - 'patience, Grasshopper'.

[Bear Paw]

For what it is worth I fix the outers first and fiddle the centre cabane struts when the outer ones are completely set - 2 days minimum.  I have tried it every which way and this is definitely the most successful.  

The first WNN kit I built was the Pfalz DXII and attached the cabane struts first. The interplane struts did not fit and I had to break it down and start again - it was a mess. 😟

[Duncan B]

What glue would be the best choice for gluing those pesky struts? I have the usual Tamiya variants along with super glue and epoxy.

 

Duncan B

[europapete]

hi Duncan, I use the usual plastic cement of your choice, just make sure there is no paint in the locating holes. ( btw, I usually fix the carbane struts first.) Regards, Pete in RI

[Duncan B]

I've been looking at how to attach the undercarriage section to the D.VII in a way that it'll be square and strong. I must admit that I have no idea how I'm going to achieve that at the moment. The struts fit into huge holes on the undercarriage fairing and setting the correct angle is going to be a nightmare that makes fitting the wings look simple.

 

 

 

If you'll pardon the pun, I am stumped! You regular WW1 types will, no doubt, be rolling your eyes and tutting heavily at my feeble excuses for not being able to fit several bits of plastic together.

I have considered 'setting' the struts in their holes with either white PVA type glue or blutac to get a rough approximation of the positions and then offering them up to the fuselage to glue the tops in place. I would still need to fill and paint the holes on the undercarriage though so maybe a variation of that idea is required where I use epoxy to glue the struts and then temporarily attach the whole thing to the fuselage until they set? Just 'talking out loud' at the moment but does any of that sound feasible or is there a technique that is staring me in the face?

 

Duncan B

[Procopius]

Duncan, I've run into this with the infinitely worse 1/72 Roden kit, and I found blasphemy of the sustained sort helped immensely with getting things in place. Also CA glue.

[Duncan B]

1 hour ago, Procopius said:

Duncan, I've run into this with the infinitely worse 1/72 Roden kit, and I found blasphemy of the sustained sort helped immensely with getting things in place. Also CA glue.

Swearing will help, I am currently thinking along the lines of Exopy glue for the strut to Undercarriage fairing then CA glue for the strut to fuselage or maybe drilling and pinning those joints.

 

Duncan B

[Viking]

Duncan,

 

I would go with setting the cabane struts (B8 & B12) up first and then the interplane (the D2's) struts into the bottom wing. I always use Revell Contacta with the needle applicator for all these joins.

You can check the alignment by placing the top wing upside down, and offering the main unit up to it. Briefly check and remove.

For the D.VII only, attach those single cabane struts B4 & B5 into the top wing.

Let it set like this for a couple of hours, then with it all the right way up add the top wing, having put a small drop of contacta into each locating hole. The struts will be fairly firm but with still a little 'give' in them. Leave B4 & B5 floating free for now. After another hour or so connect the free ends to the fuselage by using a piece of fine wire to put a small drop of cyano into the little slot on the fuselage. and guide the ends in with tweezers.

 

As for the undercarriage, I always build the unit first with all its struts in place before even priming it. you can align it all on the assembled fuselage/wing unit. I attach it with cyano, again putting a small drop in the locating hole with a piece of wire. (If you do it with cyano on the strut ends I guarantee you will get smeared where you don't want it, on your nice paintwork).

 

HTH, and good man for having a go at a WnW kit!

 

John

[Duncan B]

Thanks for that detailed advice John. I'm not brave enough (yet) to tackle a WnW D.VII, this is the Eduard 1/48 kit but it's all part of my master plan to work up to my first WnW build.

I have Revell Contacta in the adhesives collection (it hadn't crossed my mind until now that I had such a thing but I guess I do) and I also have some acupuncture needles that are perfect glue applicators. The interplane struts were glued onto the bottom wing yesterday and left to set. I did briefly check the alignment last night by placing the upper wing upside down on a foam pad and positioning the main assembly on it, all looks good so far. I might have a go at the cabane struts today if I have the time.

 

Duncan B

[Paul Thompson]

Done a lot of these (Roden and Eduard) and for the undercarriage what works best for me glueing the struts into the axle wing with Revell Contacta or Ye Olde Fashioned tube glue (applied to the strut ends) , then waiting at least 10 minutes for it to start to set up. Boring bit, keep poking the struts back into a semblance of the right orientation.  After which apply glue sparingly to the fuselage locations and juggling the strut ends into position, You need to either hold it in place or jury rig something to stop it moving too much for another 10 minutes, then it should be stable enough to pick up and fine tune the alignment. You can then either spend a lot of time once more propping it in place, or lock the fuselage to strut joints y running a small amount of runny CA into them. You could speed it further with accekerator but this might damage the paint finish.

 

If you ever do the Roden kit (which to my mind at least looks more like a DVII, even if it is much harder to construct), then it's essential to put the interplane Ns on first, and spend much quality time fine tuning to get the upper wing spot on. This is because the inner strut lengths are a bit suspect and need trimming a bit as you build them up, otherwise they want to hold the wing at a different angle to the N struts. Especially troublesome where they go through the cowling to the engine bearers. Here, there'd be no problem except Roden's design assumes the cowlings are scale thickness, but the real life plastic thickness throws it all off. Knowing it in advance you can avoid that little problem by thinning out the back of the cowling holes as much as possible. It is, though, one of the reasons why many Roden kits get built with the panels left off, which takes advantage of the very nice engine, but looks odd if you build lots of them.

 

Paul.

[Viking]

On 31/05/2019 at 08:40, Duncan B said:

Thanks for that detailed advice John. I'm not brave enough (yet) to tackle a WnW D.VII, this is the Eduard 1/48 kit but it's all part of my master plan to work up to my first WnW build.

Duncan B

Hi Duncan, Somehow I missed the bit about it being the 1:48 Eduard kit!

A few years ago I put a post on about doing the struts & rigging on 1:48 kits, and just found it had lost all the pictures in the great Photobucket debacle,

Never mind, I found I still have them and have now reloaded them In this post here.

 

This technique works well in the smaller scale, hope the explanation helps. We'll get you onto the WnW kit next!

 

Cheers

 

John

[Duncan B]

On 6/1/2019 at 7:27 PM, Viking said:

Hi Duncan, Somehow I missed the bit about it being the 1:48 Eduard kit!

A few years ago I put a post on about doing the struts & rigging on 1:48 kits, and just found it had lost all the pictures in the great Photobucket debacle,

Never mind, I found I still have them and have now reloaded them In this post here.

 

This technique works well in the smaller scale, hope the explanation helps. We'll get you onto the WnW kit next!

 

Cheers

 

John

Thanks John, I managed to get the wing fitted on Saturday morning before departing for North Shields. I fitted the N struts first and left them overnight Friday. The wing was a bit wobbly but armed with your previous advice about leaving one end of the cabane struts floating I was able to get them all completed in fairly good order despite my first attempt breaking free the first time I touched it. I had to resort to using Ca glue to anchor the floating ends at the second attempt but it worked.

 

 

Today I'll have a go at fitting the undercarriage. I have a plan to use a cardboard template to hold the legs in place while my glue sets. I would have used Paul's advice above but the mounting holes on the axle wing are huge and will need filled and then repainted before I can fit the whole assembly onto the model. I have picked up the mounting points on a piece of masking tape which has been stuck onto some stiff card. I will drill the holes and fix the top of each strut through them and then glue the axle wing in place. That's the plan anyway (if you don't have a plan you can't change it!).

 

I am really enjoying this kit despite/because of the many new challenges it is throwing at me and it is part of my work up to starting my WnW Snipe.

 

Duncan B

[Paul Thompson]

49 minutes ago, Duncan B said:

 

I am really enjoying this kit despite/because of the many new challenges it is throwing at me and it is part of my work up to starting my WnW Snipe.

 

Duncan B 

At least, with most WNW kits I've come across, the struts fit is so precise that you can relax, they'll be at the right angle once installed in the lower wing.

Memory is a wonderful thing. I must get one. I'd forgotten about the sloppy u/c fit on the Eduard Fokker. Nonetheless, I did it without jigging the fuselage end of the struts as you intend, although I've done that with other models, and also with centre section struts where it was the lesser evil. Can't recall now with any certainty but I may have only glued them to the fuselage after the lower bits were fully set, because looking at the models, I did fill them. Can't have been too traumatic or even I would remember. I seem to recall the opposite problem with the Roden kits, needing to file the locating ends before they'd seat fully home.

 

 

Paul.

[Duncan B]

I've run out of bits to glue on so thanks to everyone for your advice and encouragement. I must admit my hands were shaking so much that I wasn't sure I'd get the undercarriage on before the CA glue set this morning, stressful stuff!

 

Duncan B