28ZComeback Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 Hi-the Ki-43 in Korea is of interest here, what is the type in the background to the far right? A Ki-15?? Maybe a Ki-79? Thank you in advance. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Aircraft-Nakajima-Ki-43-Oscar-Kimpo-Korea-1945-1-COLOR-SLIDE-No-Photo/333203811264?_mwBanner=1&ul_ref=https%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F0%2Fe11021.m43.l1120%2F7%3Feuid%3D85be9f3f161d4435bcbd4af228f688ef%26bu%3D44244304257%26ut%3DRU%26loc%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fulk%252Fitm%252F333203811264%26exe%3D21942%26ext%3D57034%26es%3D0%26nqc%3DRAhAAQAABAAgBAAAABAAAAIQAABAICAAAAACAAAAACAEAAgAgAAAAAACAAAAAAAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAAAAUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAI*%26nqt%3DRAhAAQAABAAgBAAAABAAAAIQAABAICAAAAACAAAAACAEAAgAgAAAAAACAAAAAAAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgAAQQAAAAUAAAAASAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAI*%26ec%3D1%26sojTags%3Des%3Des%2Cnqc%3Dnqc%2Cnqt%3Dnqt%2Cec%3Dec%2Cexe%3Dexe%2Cext%3Dext%2Cbu%3Dbu%2Cut%3Dut%26srcrot%3De11021.m43.l1120%26rvr_id%3D0%26rvr_ts%3De06cad8416a0ab4cf6f2abacfffed075&ul_noapp=true&pageci=e50448eb-3383-4be9-88a8-3247c54106a9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanG Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 (edited) Ki-84, surely? Edit: beg pardon, you must mean the one to the right of the Ki-84 - apologies! Edited May 22, 2019 by SeanG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 28Z, Not sure, but it does appear to have green upper surfaces and yellow wing ID stripes; I can't see enough to determine if it has orange/yellow under surfaces, but doesn't look like it, so I would guess it is an operational type, maybe a radial-engined Judy, as they were being used right up to the end as kamikaze and night fighters. Don't think it is a Grace, Jill, or Sonia. Just a wild guess! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRK4m Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 Neither Sonia (Ki-51) nor Babs (Ki-15) as the wing has constant dihedral from the very root. The wheel spat visible under the Hayate wing suggests a Nate, but Ki-27 had the very special oil cooler in front of cylinders, thus Ki-79 remains the very strong contender here. For me at least... Cheers Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 (edited) I think you are looking at one of the earlier types being used as a trainer. Nose-high sit, possible fixed undercarriage. Being Korea, which was an Army playground, I don't think that it would be likely to be a Navy type. However I do think that the photo has been tweaked out of all recognition as far as the camouflage and colours on the fighters are concerned. Edited May 22, 2019 by Graham Boak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28ZComeback Posted May 22, 2019 Author Share Posted May 22, 2019 I thank you all for your observations. I think it’s a Ki-79. The other photo from the series bears this out. To the left is the ki-43. To the right, the Ki-79bs. Do you agree? Thank you again https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Ki-84/Ki-84-22-Sentai/pages/Nakajima-Ki-84-Hiko-Dai-22-Sentai-1-Chutai-W60-Kimpo-Korea-late-1945-01.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Above Hayate wing there is P-38 as well as another one on the most left part of photo . The machine behind Hayete in right is for me Babs II. Note the single exhaust pipe on side of cowling. J-W 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28ZComeback Posted May 23, 2019 Author Share Posted May 23, 2019 Thanks a Babs it is. Great detective work! Anyone care to comment on the aircraft in the background of the second photo that looks like a Ju-88? It may or may not be a P-38, but seems to be a tail-sitter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 5 hours ago, 28ZComeback said: Thanks a Babs it is. Great detective work! Anyone care to comment on the aircraft in the background of the second photo that looks like a Ju-88? It may or may not be a P-38, but seems to be a tail-sitter? Now I've read post by @krk4m and his point on flat center part of wing arose my doubts in my previous position that it is Babs II. But such flat center of wing has also Ki36/55 Ida and Ki 51 Sonia. On the other hand Ki-79 has exhaust pipe lower than on almost 9 o'clock position in case of Babs II... Which plane you found similar to Ju-88? And what do you mena a second photo? I can see only one in the firdt post link. On some photos of P38 from WWII time they are a tail-sitters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28ZComeback Posted May 23, 2019 Author Share Posted May 23, 2019 Yes if you look in the second photo, and look furthest back behind the row of Ki-84’s, to the left of the control tower (facing the tower) is a tail sitter apparently with a tail boom. I guess it could be a P38 but it looks to be “real” tail sitter. Thanks again for your thoughtful detective work!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toryu Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 On 22/05/2019 at 18:47, 28ZComeback said: Hi-the Ki-43 in Korea is of interest here, what is the type in the background to the far right? A Ki-15?? Maybe a Ki-79? Thank you in advance. Coming back to the initial question. The aircraft in the background is a Ki-36 'Ida'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Toryu said: Coming back to the initial question. The aircraft in the background is a Ki-36 'Ida'. Hm,, Ida has indeed exhaust pipe at 9 o'clock but has flat central part of wing (dihedral have parts outside u/c) but the most problematic is lack of MG on top of cowling, should be visible (like on photo below) , I cannot notice it. Cheers J-W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRK4m Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 It cannot be the Tachikawa Ki-36/Ki-55 as the aircraft on the photo has a ventral carburettor intake (the feature of both the Ki-79 and Ki-15-2) Cheers Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRK4m Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 3 hours ago, 28ZComeback said: Yes if you look in the second photo, and look furthest back behind the row of Ki-84’s, to the left of the control tower (facing the tower) is a tail sitter apparently with a tail boom. I guess it could be a P38 but it looks to be “real” tail sitter. Thanks again for your thoughtful detective work!! But Ju-88 doesn't have the tail booms (nor even the twin fins and rudders) - the US planes there are only the P-38s and C-47s. No P-61s. And no P-54 and P-58 too :) And you can be right - the Ki-43 facing the tower in the extreme left corner of the photo can be the one from the 1st picture. And in this case the enigmatic (propless) bird from the 1st photo is the (propless) Ki-79 that starts the "right" row of Ki-43s on the 2nd picture. Cheers Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28ZComeback Posted May 23, 2019 Author Share Posted May 23, 2019 Thanks all. I suppose it appears to be a P38. Funny how it appears to sit like a Potez 451! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 7 hours ago, 28ZComeback said: to the left of the control tower (facing the tower) is a tail sitter apparently with a tail boom. I guess it could be a P38 but it looks to be “real” tail sitter. to the left of the left tower, I'm seeing a P-38 facing away from the tower in a tail down stance similar to @JWM's post above. Another P-38 between the two towers facing towards the camera too & a C-47 looking thing in front of the Hanger facing away from the camera. Sorry, no opinion on the mystery plane to the right of the 1st photo, there're plenty others better qualified in Japanese aircraft than me. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 The lack of propeller can modify appearence a lot, so I think one canot exclude Ki 51 Sonia, Again problem with dihedral, but I did not found yet reference photo from front with removed prop.... J-W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toryu Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Contenders for the type in the background to the far right: Mansyu Ki-79 - a Nakajima Ki-27 derivative, a much smaller airplane with dihedral starting at the wing root, no spinner. Mitsubishi Ki-51 - has a narrower front opening with a much larger spinner that closes off most of it. Mitsubishi Ki-15-II - is a possibility, but again a larger spinner and therefore less open at the front. The best match is the Tachikawa Ki-36 - it does have a small air scoop under the cowling and by enlarging the referenced picture a blop appears at the location of the machine gun tube outlet. Information and comparative front pictures at R.J. Francillon 'Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28ZComeback Posted May 25, 2019 Author Share Posted May 25, 2019 Yeah I think the Ki-36 is the clear winner. Thank you for the analysis and drawing. My friend in the US Army said that almost all Japanese planes located in Korea 1945 -1950 were reduced to scrap metal by the resourceful Koreans. I bet these planes lasted less than six months before they were turned into pots and pans. Thank you again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRK4m Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, 28ZComeback said: Yeah I think the Ki-36 is the clear winner. Thank you for the analysis and drawing. My friend in the US Army said that almost all Japanese planes located in Korea 1945 -1950 were reduced to scrap metal by the resourceful Koreans. I bet these planes lasted less than six months before they were turned into pots and pans. Thank you again. Absolutely no. If you even call the Ki-36 "winner" the matter is not so "clear". First - if we do agree that both pictures do show the same rows of planes in the same situation the questionable aircraft should be the very last in the second row of fighters, consisting mostly of various (i.e. both Ki-43-II with exhaust ring and multi-stack Ki-43-III) Hayabusas. In such circumstances this very last (or 1st from left when looking from the 1st photo perspective) aircraft is ALMOST surely the Ki-79. Why? Because the whole row consists of single-seaters only (mind the "multi-seating auxiliaries" in form of Ki-54 and THE Ki-36/55 in the 3rd row on the 2nd picture) and the prop-less last fighter has the engine at exactly the same height over the ground as the Ki-43 standing next to her. In static attitude both Ki-15 and Ki-30 have their noses much higher, while the Ki-36/55 has very short undercarriage legs (due to the small-dia prop of her tiny engine) and her nose is much lower when standing on the ground (mind the plane in 3rd row on the 2nd picture). The comparison picture of all 5 discussed types plus a Ki-43 as the reference (all in exactly the same scale) is here: Second - if the two discussed pictures don't show the same aircraft in the same circumstances we are limited to analysing the head-on view only. And here also the Ki-36 cannot be declared as the winner, as the engine is high over ground and there's no visible canopy windshield behind/above it - the omnipresent feature of the Ki-36/55 (and Ki-51) when viewed head-on. Moreover the large air scoop under the cowling (the carb intake perhaps) excludes the Ki-36 from the small bunch of candidates, leaving the Ki-15-II as the more probable (side exhaust stack at the crankshaft height) and the Ki-79 (constant dihedral wing from the root) as the ONLY alternative to her. In my honest opinion only of course... Cheers Michael Edited May 25, 2019 by KRK4m misprint found 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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