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helios16v

What Could've Been...Here's to the Losers GB (halfway there!)

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Posted (edited)

Chatting w/ @trickyrich last week in his Viggen thread got the wheels churning.  This proposed GB would based on what could've been end products if different decisions/selections/evaluations happened.  I want to build one at some point, and I know he has some planned.  So what are the odds there are others?  Never know until you ask.  The most easily explained concept would be military equipment that were entered in a bid competition, considered as a potential replacement, or offered for sale but were not selected for whatever reason.  These could be from active equipment at the time or even losing prototype models (F-23 in USAF colors for example).  While this will obviously lean towards a military bias...it can certainly be carried over into the civilian/motorsport world (Mclaren F1 w/ a Honda V10/V12 for example as it was an option Murray was pursuing for the car that didn't work out).

 

Eligibility Requirements:

1. Full production line equipment.  Prototypes may be considered provided a minimum of 1 fully operational prototype was constructed capable of performing in bidding competitions/evaluations (ie: YF-23).

2. Actual discussions/negotiations between manufacturer and proposed end user had taken place.  

3. The chosen equipment has to have NOT been chosen for service in favor of other options.  ie: the losers of bidding competition/evaluations

4. Open to air/land/sea/civilian equipment that meet the above guidelines.

 

NOTE:  If you are choosing a subject that eligibility requirements can not be verified by a quick check (Wikipedia), please provide a link to references to eligibility fulfillment as we all know Wiki is not all-encompassing.  :giggle:

 

 

Some examples:

USAF Aggressor SAAB 37 Viggen

RAAF F-15 Eagle

Honda powered Mclaren F1

USAF F-23

RAF TSR-2

 

Post up thoughts, comments, or interest.  Cheers.

 

LIST

1. helios16v (host)

2. Col. (co-host)

3. Corsairfoxfouruncle

4. vppelt68

5. Mig Eater

6. whiskey

7. trickyrich

8. Daniel

9. Arniec

10. Brad

11. Colin W

12. Jabba

13. stevehnz

14. Romeo Alpha Yankee

15. Paul821

16. theplasticsurgeon

17.

18.

19.

20.

21.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

Edited by helios16v
more people!

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Posted (edited)

Interesting idea ? I think i could find something if this goes through. I believe i have a couple of options. maybe a chance to build an F2G Super corsair in Fleet markings ?  Or i can do a North American FJ-5 Super Fury  based on the F-100. From what i understand this was an option in the F-8 Crusader competition. 

 

Dennis

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle

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Sounds good to me :thumbsup:

 

RAF TSR.2

'Tuning-fork' Harrier T-2

Dutch Air Force Lightning

Thin wing supersonic Hawker Hunter

Any number of P. projects from various British companies

The possibilities are certainly varied :) 

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Right! When Finnish AF elected to buy its current Legacy Hornets, its competitors were Gripen A/B, Mirage 2000 and F-16. The process was started in 1988, and back then MiG 29 was the fourth option, but dropped out before the tendering began in late 1990 due to fall of the USSR. F-18 was introduced to the race as late as spring 1991 but emerged as the winner! Wouldn't the four losers all qualify for this GB? Ah that Tamiya F-16C Blk 50 would look gooood with blue and white roundels 😍

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, vppelt68 said:

Right! When Finnish AF elected to buy its current Legacy Hornets, its competitors were Gripen A/B, Mirage 2000 and F-16. The process was started in 1988, and back then MiG 29 was the fourth option, but dropped out before the tendering began in late 1990 due to fall of the USSR. F-18 was introduced to the race as late as spring 1991 but emerged as the winner! Wouldn't the four losers all qualify for this GB? Ah that Tamiya F-16C Blk 50 would look gooood with blue and white roundels 😍

Absolutely.  That's the spirit I was shooting for w/ this GB proposal.  :thumbsup:

Edited by helios16v

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Posted (edited)

Not one i can do as I'm not good at scratch building a whole aircraft. But the Northrop A-9 lost out to the A-10. So unless theres a resin, vac, or small production company making one, its scratch building one. 

 

Dennis  

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle

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Half my stash is what if armour & I have a long list potential scratch build projects too so count me in.

 

Anigrand have a resin kit of the A-9 BTW.


 

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This has a lot of potential. Not exactly a "what-if?" GB but like a "what if this entered service?" Do I have that right?

 

If I had more time (and skill) I could do an operational version of the Bell 249 prototype. That'd be slick.

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1 hour ago, whiskey said:

This has a lot of potential. Not exactly a "what-if?" GB but like a "what if this entered service?" Do I have that right?

 

If I had more time (and skill) I could do an operational version of the Bell 249 prototype. That'd be slick.

Exactly.

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So could the Luft 46 stuff be along the right lines? They would have got it operational had the war went differently or on for longer? I’d be in but looking for more examples off the crowd... 

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Posted (edited)

You starting a names list Chris? Sign me up as co-host if you like :) 

Edited by Col.

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Posted (edited)

Speaking of Luft 46, there is already a proposed Luft46/Panzer46 GB. While the theme of that is specificity German WW2, perhaps it might be better to merge it into this more general what-if GB instead?  

 

 

 

Edited by Mig Eater

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@helios16v that's right blame me for this one!!! Just because I'm making you add more stuff to your stash!!  :rofl2:

 

I love this one, sign me up....have a HUGE list of possibilities for this one, all RAAF of course...even a RAAF Zero?

 

http://www.adf-serials.com.au/research/Mitsubishi-RAAF.pdf

 

I know @vppelt68 loves his Luft46 stuff but maybe in this case we sort of exclude them, only because we aren't here talking about "paper aircraft" but rather real aircraft that almost had a different life.

 

Right off to my spreadsheet!! :D 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Mig Eater said:

Speaking of Luft 46, there is already a proposed Luft46/Panzer46 GB. While the theme of that is specificity German WW2, perhaps it might be better to merge it into this more general what-if GB instead?  

 

 

or we make it a joint GB, 2 GB's under the one banner, that would work.

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What if the F-20 had gone into production & what if the RNZAF had replaced its Skyhawks with them. Would that be a goer. :)

Steve.

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Yeah, I like this. All my previous What If group builds have been of this logic anyway. Think I did an 11Sqn TSR2 last time

 

Dan

 

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35 minutes ago, stevehnz said:

What if the F-20 had gone into production & what if the RNZAF had replaced its Skyhawks with them. Would that be a goer. :)

Steve.

the RNZAF basically nearly had F-16's, from memory the Gov canned them right at the last moment. They would have really suited you guys...another shameful event.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Valkyrie said:

So could the Luft 46 stuff be along the right lines? They would have got it operational had the war went differently or on for longer? I’d be in but looking for more examples off the crowd... 

Not really.  My concept for the GB is more for equipment that was already designed and built (at least 1 operating prototype), but said equipment was turned down for another competitor (or planned purchase was denied/blocked, like the case of the Viggen w/ India).  Think of the multi-aircraft bidding competitions that most countries perform when they are looking at purchasing military equipment...all the losers from the competition (in that countries colors) are the backbone for this proposed GB.

Edited by helios16v

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1 hour ago, stevehnz said:

What if the F-20 had gone into production & what if the RNZAF had replaced its Skyhawks with them. Would that be a goer. :)

Steve.

I did a quick glance at the Wiki page for the F-20 and didn't see New Zealand listed as a potential buyer, so off that I would say no.  However, we all know that Wikipedia isn't all encompassing, so if you can provide a reference referring to the New Zealand govt being potentially interested purchasing the F-20, then it's in.

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4 hours ago, trickyrich said:

or we make it a joint GB, 2 GB's under the one banner, that would work.

I would not be opposed.

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1 hour ago, helios16v said:

I did a quick glance at the Wiki page for the F-20 and didn't see New Zealand listed as a potential buyer, so off that I would say no.  However, we all know that Wikipedia isn't all encompassing, so if you can provide a reference referring to the New Zealand govt being potentially interested purchasing the F-20, then it's in.

Seems like I missed the point of the 1st post so no, I don't see it as a goer.

Steve.

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1 hour ago, stevehnz said:

Seems like I missed the point of the 1st post so no, I don't see it as a goer.

Steve.

No worries Steve.  It wouldn't be the first time I've had a hard time transferring thoughts to written (or verbal for that matter) communication.  😅

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How about the Buccaneer. It was on the cards for the West German Navy at the time.

As for the F-20 I have already done one in RCAF colours even though it might not have been officially be a potential operator of it.

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Posted (edited)

I am definitely interested in this GB. With what?! I will think of something. Maybee something Dutch.

I have got a Dutch decal sheet with all sorts of what if's that could have been. For example a A-4 Skyhawk in Dutch navy colors or a Mirage IIIE instead of the F-104. Maybee a good one for this GB.

 

Cheers,

Edited by Arniec

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