Airfix 1/35th M3 Stuart

[John]

Strange to say but in over 50 years of kitbashing I haven't built a single 1/35th scale tank. I've bought a few, been gifted others but as yet I haven't actually finished one. I fancy the Airfix boxing of the Academy M3 though, in the early British desert scheme:

 

https://www.airfix.com/uk-en/shop/new-arrivals/m3-stuart-honey-british-version-1-35.html

 

Any thoughts about the kit and/or colour scheme?

 

TIA

 

John

[JackG]

Don't have the kit, but rivet counters says there are dimensional issues throughout. This in no way affects the part fit though, and is an enjoyable kit, and still ends up looking like a Stuart.  From what I've read, no British radio provided, and the turret basket should be omitted as this was for the M3A1 version.

 

For the desert scheme provided with the Airfix boxing,  I think we can only rely on speculation based on b/w period photos.  There is a suggestion that the top colour could be the original olive drab the vehicle was issued in:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/viewtopic.php?f=47208&t=93392&p=1069236&hilit=splotches+stuart+M3#p1069236

 

regards,

 

Jack

 

 

 

[Veltro]

Mike Starmer provided a lot of input on the desert scheme.

[Kingsman]

This is essentially the Academy "Stuart Honey" kit with a new decal set for a 5RTR vehicle.  I wouldn't necessarily buy it just for the decals - you can pick up the Academy kit for less £££.  But, having said that, after-market decals for British Stuarts are thin on the ground.   Star do a set for NZ and Aus desert Stuarts and there are plenty of sets of divisional, AOS and squadron markings.  But that gets expensive unless you intend to use more of them.  The Academy kit has a good selection of squadron markings but is limited on div and AOS.

 

I'm not sure about the accuracy of Airfix's colours, but as noted above Mike Starmer is the authority.  Bovington's later M3A1 is finished in a scheme similar to this, but the green is darker and blotchier.  The green could have indeed been unpainted OD, or the theatre-specific Dark Green: depends if it had been freshly painted or repainted in that scheme.  For an octagonal turret M3, Caunter seems most likely at first - but might later have been repainted..  To my eye, the colour Airfix are trying to show is Slate or possibly Silver Grey.

[John]

I've got all of Mike Starmer's booklets 🙂

 

I think the kit will meet my "reasonable facsimile" test, given that it isn't a Spitfire or Hurricane where millimetric accuracy becomes an issue...

 

I did wonder about the colours. My tin of Humbrol 36 isn't anything like as pale as suggested in the instructions, being a brighter and stronger shade more akin to green zinc chromate:

 

 

I can see how the original OD might work as Slate in a Caunter type of scheme.

 

Interesting, thanks.

 

John

[Kingsman]

As it's an early vehicle it is likely to have been overpainted in Light Stone on delivery, but possibly not the lower hull sides behind the bogies.  The "Caunter" scheme came in after that and the scheme Airfix depict probably came in after that.  By which time, newly-delivered Stuarts would have been round-turret M3A1s.  So I think that probably rules out OD as the green shade as it would almost certainly have been overpainted at least once.  I question how many original M3s still survived in operational service by then.

 

The theatre Dark Green was quite dark and a reasonably deep green, more like the 12C39 colour on your shade card.  Slate was a somewhat lighter bluey-grey as Airfix's box art shows. It did not match the RAF Slate Grey.  The colour of the red-brown seems to be uncertain.  As usually depicted it doesn't match any of the official colours, being too dark to be Desert Pink and too red to be the purple-y Caunter colour.  A brick-ish red shade was used pre-war in Egypt and possibly early in the war too, so it could be leftover or new stock of that colour.  Again, no-one seems entirely sure now what the exact colour was.

[mylo66]

Haven't been building armor long but i have built the Academy version of this kit, Don't have a clue about accuracy but its a very enjoyable kit.

Paints were Vallejo Model Air Set - British Caunter Colors

 

[PLC1966]

1 hour ago, mylo66 said:

Haven't been building armor long but i have built the Academy version of this kit, Don't have a clue about accuracy but its a very enjoyable kit.

Paints were Vallejo Model Air Set - British Caunter Colors

 

No pictures for me chap, just a grey square.

[mylo66]

Ok thanks for the info. i`ll look into it

 

[mylo66]

18 minutes ago, PLC1966 said:

No pictures for me chap, just a grey square.

Can you tell me what browser you are using?

[PLC1966]

Windows 10 system and Bing 

 

[mylo66]

do you have chrome installed?

[Fishbed]

No images on firefox or chrome, sorry.

 

Tim

[Fishbed]

15 hours ago, Das Abteilung said:

This is essentially the Academy "Stuart Honey" kit with a new decal set for a 5RTR vehicle.  I wouldn't necessarily buy it just for the decals - you can pick up the Academy kit for less £££.  But, having said that, after-market decals for British Stuarts are thin on the ground.   Star do a set for NZ and Aus desert Stuarts and there are plenty of sets of divisional, AOS and squadron markings.  But that gets expensive unless you intend to use more of them.  The Academy kit has a good selection of squadron markings but is limited on div and AOS.

 

I'm not sure about the accuracy of Airfix's colours, but as noted above Mike Starmer is the authority.  Bovington's later M3A1 is finished in a scheme similar to this, but the green is darker and blotchier.  The green could have indeed been unpainted OD, or the theatre-specific Dark Green: depends if it had been freshly painted or repainted in that scheme.  For an octagonal turret M3, Caunter seems most likely at first - but might later have been repainted..  To my eye, the colour Airfix are trying to show is Slate or possibly Silver Grey.

I had this discusion with him over these colours (but for a Grant) you can see his thunking here - https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/viewtopic.php?f=110741&t=317933&p=1545891&hilit=starmer#p1545891 with silver grey being the top colour in his view.  If it was olive drab it would match the unpainted patch where the serial number is (images in link).  Must finish the Grant off ..........

 

Tim

[mylo66]

Don't know if i should post this now, i think the moment and maybe the topic have moved on but...

Fingers Crossed images below.

 

 

 

[JackG]

A number of Stuart images found here, but the only one that appears to be carrying splotches is the last photo dated Dec. 1942:

https://www.how-amps.org/british-m3-stuarts-north-africa

 

Going by the dated captions found in the above link, Stuarts began arriving in desert during the summer of 1941, (though there is one caption from Bundesarchiv as April??) and the Caunter scheme was still in use at this time.  In October the order was to have an overall Light Stone No.61, with only one disruptive colour which was optional.  This was amended in December to having an overall scheme of either Light Stone No.61 or  Portland Stone No.64 - while the disruptive colour was still optional at the Area Command's choosing.  No mention of 'splotches'  - perhaps just random paint wear exposing the olive drab??

http://www.mafva.net/other pages/Starmer camo.htm

 

regards,

Jack

[Bullbasket]

Have a look at this review. It's for the Academy kit, but most of it is relevant.

http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/academy/acd1399.htm

 

John.

[John]

Interesting discussion, thanks to all. 

I admit I hadn't checked the date of the scheme and hadn't realised that it was quite a bit post-Caunter. 

I'm going to have to get one now... 

 

John 

[Kingsman]

The box art for the recently-announced MiniArt Grant I shows it in the same scheme as the Airfix Stuart, but the colours are much clearer.  Their top colour looks more like OD and matches the unpainted OD around the serial number in their picture.  Most UK camoulage instructions permitted the retention of suitable existing base colours as the disruptive colour e.g. OD instead of the theatre Dark Green.  I'm not entirely sure that it has ever been establshed beyond doubt that Cash And Carry Grants pre Lend-Lease were painted OD or whether they were an analogue of Khaki Green 3 or even a sandy colour possibly called Coronado Tan.  Black and white photos won't discriminate OD from KG3.  Stuarts would have been OD.

 

 

[AntPhillips]

3 hours ago, Das Abteilung said:

The box art for the recently-announced MiniArt Grant I shows it in the same scheme as the Airfix Stuart..........

 

That's exactly what I thought as soon as I saw the picture.

[Mike Starmer]

Let me go back to the origin of this Brigade inspired scheme.  It was first published as artwork in  Vanguard 23, 'British Tanks in North Africa' in 1981.  At the time  very little accurate information about British camouflage policy and the appearance  of colours was known.  The colours used to depict certain colours, for example Slate, were in that book, nearly black, brown and grey.  The Grant showing this scheme is described as being finished in Light Stone, Olive Drab and purple brown.  No photograph showing that scheme appears in the book.  However photographs of the Grant in question clearly show that the top surfaces colour is not as dark as the background to the WD number which was then generally known to be the original Olive Drab finish.  Therefore the top colour cannot be Olive Drab.  It was policy to accept US built vehicles and AFVs in the US colour then repaint as required at final destination.  This was done in consideration that there was uncertainty as to where a cargo might be diverted in a crisis.  In Egypt in October 1941 Caunter patterning was cancelled in favour of an overall colour of Light Stone No.61.  US vehicles were prepared for desert use at Tel-el-Kebir depot where they would have been painted according to the current regulation, i.e Light Stone overall.  They would have been issued in that colour to 4th A.B. to replace the huge losses incurred during operation Crusader.  At the time two ambiguous painting regulations were in force.  One stated that Cmds (commands) may apply a single disruptive colour as required.  The other similar worded signal stated that Cmdrs (commanders)  may apply a single disruptive colour as required.  In addition there existed an exaggerated belief in the effectiveness of any sort of disruptive painting.  It would appear then that some Brigade workshops undertook to apply a brigade inspired design to all its vehicles.  4th A.B. evidently did so using three colours.  But what might those be?  Basic colour, that applied as issued but what other colours might be available?  Workshops would hold the now surplus and redundant stocks of paint used in the cancelled Caunter design.   What were they?  Portland Stone, Slate and Silver Grey.  Why not use those?  I strongly suggest that the top colour on those tanks is Silver Grey.  This assertion is based on a photographs of a Grant and Stuart side by side which both show the slightly darker top colour.  That colour has the same contrast on B/W images as may be seen on many images of Caunter finished vehicles.  The other colour specified for use in 1941 was Light Purple Brown which is a slightly brownish dark Maroon shade.   Against Light Stone it has very high contrast and that too fits the contrast seen on images of the Stuarts and Grants in question.  One image I have shows the blotches being applied and one could be excused for believing those  to be black, so dark it is.    Miniart has simple blindly followed the  Vanguard artwork.  The Airfix Stuart has taken the photographs into consideration but quite why they thought that Humbrol 36 was remotely like Silver Grey I cannot conceive.  They evidently did little or no research on that point either.  OOT Humbrol  90 would be nearer.    The model 'Bellman' is quite inaccurate in pattern,  the basis for that colouring and layout is a tank named Deacon which had been burned and has the cupola top areas scorched and smoke blackened after internal fire.  It completely lacks the third colour  too.

[Mike Starmer]

BTW, the top roundel was not applied until June 1942.

[Gordon J]

Can I ask if anyone knows whether crew figures are supplied with the Airfix boxing?

[AntPhillips]

On 5/28/2019 at 12:38 PM, Gordon J said:

Can I ask if anyone knows whether crew figures are supplied with the Airfix boxing?

 

Airfix are simply reissuing the Academy kit with their own design decals, as there were no figures with the original Academy kit, so I wouldn't think so.

[Don Donato]

There are several colors of Light Stone No.61 on the market. Vallejo Model Air MA71143 UK Light Stone No61, AK Interactive REAL COLORS: BSC Nº61 Light Stone or AK Interactive Brush & Air BSC. Nº61 Light Stone.  They are different.

Which comes closest to reality?