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thepureness

Stamford model show. Such a sad event

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We don't slap, a correctional tick when applicable is still necessary, and that doesn't need broken bones, bleeding noses and the like... I've received my fair share of them, and I'm not that much worse then anybody else... I hope...

 

 

 

Do I?

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10 minutes ago, Silenoz said:

We don't slap, a correctional tick when applicable is still necessary, and that doesn't need broken bones, bleeding noses and the like... I've received my fair share of them, and I'm not that much worse then anybody else... I hope...

Interesting. Slapping that is. Lyons give their offspring a sharp paw clout.

 

Dogs will take charge & snap at their off spring.

 

In the monkey apes kingdom a big wallop is given.

 

But they are not destructive.  A slap not hard is a reminder. Some children react to nothing else.

 

My father only ever gave me a wallop, twice, but it was not the physical hurt it was the fact that

I had let down myself to the father who I loved. Who was always there. Both occasions I slunk

away & cried my pride had been shattered.

 

In the case of these 4 boys we do not know their background or their families. I have learnt in

life not to pre-judge with out the facts. Also punishment is not retaliation it breeds & ensures

that matters get worse.

 

I suspect those boys & families are going through the worst experience of their lives. Includes

the brothers & sisters grandma & grandfathers.

 

The worst is the saying "the punishment must fit the crime".

 

Laurie

 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Silenoz said:

 

 

 

Do I?

 

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In my generation doing something like this was a ticket to a military academy.

This required having parents with the wherewithal - and usually not into smacking their children.

 

Cheers, Moggy (wholly unmilitarised!)

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51 minutes ago, LaurieS said:

Lyons give their offspring a sharp paw clout.

:gobsmacked:That's the last time that I go into their corner house for tea.:D

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Posted (edited)

The court results have come out and three of the children have been sentenced. 

 

Three youths were each handed 12 month referral orders and their parents orders to pay £500 in compensation, £500 !!!! disgusting but if their parents don't have any money or are on low income you can't get blood from a stone. 

 

The 4th is due to be sentenced at a later date 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-49397838

Edited by thepureness

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Outcome reported on BBC News today - 

 

4 boys

 

3 are sentenced to 12-month referral orders and their parents were also ordered to pay £500 in compensation.

A fourth boy was told he would be sentenced on 2 September.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-49397838

 

In case anyone does not know a referral order is the community sentence most often used by the courts when dealing with 10 to 17 year olds, particularly for first time offenders who plead guilty. Referral orders require that an offender must agree a contract of rehabilitative and restorative elements to be completed within the sentence.

 

I'd like to think that 12 months work will prevent any repetition of that behaviour.  I'm a glass half full sort of chap.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, JohnT said:

Outcome reported on BBC News today - 

 

4 boys

 

3 are sentenced to 12-month referral orders and their parents were also ordered to pay £500 in compensation.

A fourth boy was told he would be sentenced on 2 September.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-49397838

 

In case anyone does not know a referral order is the community sentence most often used by the courts when dealing with 10 to 17 year olds, particularly for first time offenders who plead guilty. Referral orders require that an offender must agree a contract of rehabilitative and restorative elements to be completed within the sentence.

 

I'd like to think that 12 months work will prevent any repetition of that behaviour.  I'm a glass half full sort of chap.

 

 

 

I beat you to it John. I think we doubled up on the same news

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20 minutes ago, thepureness said:

 

I beat you to it John. I think we doubled up on the same news

Clearly we both are gentlemen, well read and of similar minds :D

 

as well as timing !

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27 minutes ago, thepureness said:

The court results have come out and three of the children have been sentenced. 

 

Three youths were each handed 12 month referral orders and their parents orders to pay £500 in compensation, £500 !!!! disgusting but if their parents don't have any money or are on low income you can't get blood from a stone. 

 

The 4th is due to be sentenced at a later date 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-49397838

My understanding that wealth status is taken into account when making these judgments.

 

What we do not know is if the parents were at fault in the way these boys were being

brought up in this world.  Any of our 4 children knew what punishment they got for

misdemeanours. Restricted to bedroom from school for a week or fortnight depending

on the severity. Severity was nothing compared to these boys.

 

It was rare to have even a weeks restriction after a taste of the punishment.

 

The destruction at the Model Show was just crazy boys totally out of hand.

 

Laurie

 

 

 

 

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So basically they’ve got off completely free and without any repercussions for their actions. Probably if anything they’re buzzing from the notoriety. And their parents escape with a paltry bill too. Oh and they’re “disappointed”. That they were caught maybe?

 

Really, what is the point of wasting my hard earned cash on law enforcement and a court system when everybody gets away with everything? The mind boggles.

 

The country is crawling with ferrel children and nobody gives a toss.

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6 minutes ago, Filler said:

So basically they’ve got off completely free and without any repercussions for their actions. Probably if anything they’re buzzing from the notoriety. And their parents escape with a paltry bill too. Oh and they’re “disappointed”. That they were caught maybe?

 

Really, what is the point of wasting my hard earned cash on law enforcement and a court system when everybody gets away with everything? The mind boggles.

 

The country is crawling with ferrel children and nobody gives a toss.

I have to agree in some ways. Often watch these police programmes.

 

Amazed as most thieving & other things are suspended sentence.

Not even community service. At least that should be first option.

They will not like that & the community gets some recompense.

 

ie give them another chance to enhance their habits. To me

it is just stupid.

 

Laurie

 

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8 minutes ago, Filler said:

The country is crawling with ferrel children

WillFerrellRonBurgundy.jpg

 

I wasn't aware he was so fertile :hmmm:

 

Can we not go down that route please?  It serves no purpose, and this is a modelling site.

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12 month referral order....   wonder if any of that will be spent working with the model railway club ?  

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Can I argue that we are not awash with either feral children nor the progeny of the finest Anchor Man to grace the airwaves? As the father of 2 children (16 and 10) I am proud to say that both mine and their friends are the nicest, most honest & hard working  of kids. My lad (the 10 year old) even loves his 'airfixing' as well as football plus the usual online activities.

My daughter has just returned from a 3 week trip to Botswana working on local farms & a rhino sanctuary. This cost her in excess of £4K which she earned herself.

Labelling all kids as menaces or feral does no one any good and overlooks the huge majority that are fantastic individuals. It's the same as labelling all over 40s as miserable, or all modellers as geeks. One box does not fit all.

 

What these kids did is unacceptable and has been dealt with under the law as we currently live. We can't go back in time and give em 6 of the best (didn't work for me) and making them watch as their beloved electronic devices are smashed just perpetuates the violence and would teach nothing. 

 

Edge

 

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1 hour ago, Edge said:

It's the same as labelling all over 40s as miserable,

Well....we are!:giggle:  But I do see where you're coming from to a certain degree. The problem is the media. Kids/youngsters who behave and do good deeds, don't get a mention, but the minority who really need a thick ear get all of the publicity. I'll give you a for instance with regards to media reporting. My son is on holiday with us at the moment and he read online that there had been a stabbing in the street where he lives. Didn't make the main news. Didn't even make the local news. Why? because the person who was stabbed didn't die. Not sensational enough for the news media, likewise with the majority of kids who go through life not casing trouble.

 

John.

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This section is for non modelling chat, so it says but, as I've made a complete gentleman's parts of myself by misspelling feral and by expressing the personal belief that a lot of punishment seems to fall well short I will happily step away from the subject of crime and punishment. However, I would just like to say that I didn't suggest any corporal punishment and also, I suppose that some of us maybe live in nicer areas than others as whilst they may be far from the majority of local children, rarely a day goes by round here without some antisocial behaviour, usually vandalism and that weird intimidating kind of thing where you have to walk into the road to get around a group blocking the pavement. Oh and their latest hobby of doing wheelies on their bikes into the oncoming traffic on the A6. And finally, I am old and grumpy but I don't think that's ever done anyone any harm bar perhaps myself.

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6 hours ago, thepureness said:

disgusting

Thats the friendliest word i can think of for the situation. 

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5 hours ago, IanHx said:

12 month referral order....   wonder if any of that will be spent working with the model railway club ?  

That would be a good idea if it could be arranged. Having spent a professional lifetime in and around the criminal courts I believe there is a lot to be said for restorative justice, particularly for young first offenders who, like these four, have apologised for their behaviour and pled guilty at the first opportunity. No punishment will undo the damage they have done and the heartbreak they have caused but spending time with the people whose models they destroyed would hopefully teach them how and why their actions were so devastating. It would require significant generosity of spirit on the part of the modellers but a good community service supervisor might be able to broker such an arrangement if all parties were willing.

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Plead guilty at the first opportunity? Maybe but how do you manage to defend a client pleading not guilty who was caught red handed on the premises as I understand this lot were? Hard for the parents to say wee Jimmy was’nae there so it couldn’t be him

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3 hours ago, EwenS said:

Plead guilty at the first opportunity? Maybe but how do you manage to defend a client pleading not guilty who was caught red handed on the premises as I understand this lot were? Hard for the parents to say wee Jimmy was’nae there so it couldn’t be him

We're going well off-topic here but I’m afraid that is an old chestnut. I spent 32 years as a prosecutor but I never had a problem with the idea that anybody who is accused of a crime has the right to plead not guilty and make the prosecution prove the case against him, a right which is specifically provided in the European Convention on Human Rights. Any responsible defence lawyer will advise the client of the strength of the case against him, the likely outcome of the trial and the fact that an early guilty plea may lead to a reduced sentence. However if the client insists he wishes to go to trial it is the lawyer’s duty to defend him to the best of their ability subject, of course, to legal and ethical constraints. In my long experience, including eight years as a part-time judge after I retired from prosecution, the majority of defence lawyers are decent, reputable practitioners doing a difficult and thankless job for limited financial reward. Of course there are some who play the system but they are in a small minority and I couldn’t begin to count the number of times I have been grateful to a defence lawyer who has managed to persuade a reluctant client to accept reality, tender a guilty plea and avoid the necessity of a long trial.

 

For an entertaining, fictionalised account of life as a Scottish defence lawyer I recommend the books of William McIntyre, particularly those featuring the character Robbie Munro. They are often laugh out loud funny and sometimes exaggerated for dramatic effect but basically they are true to life.

 

 

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What Skodadriver says above has been my experience with the courts albeit only over a decade of criminal experience on the defence side before seeing the light and departing that ship for the world of the civil courts.  The problem is that by the time kids get to court as adults at 16 the patterns of behaviour are already stamped.  It was my experience that if they can get caught earlier (pun not intended) then there is a turn around chance.  I well remember a young kid about to go off the rails whose Mum lived along the road from us back in the 70's.  She was a widow and struggling with the rebellious teenager.  A very sensible cop dragged him home after some minor misdemeanour and rather than charge him he explained the path the kid was starting up, rattled his cage and gave him a fatherly talking to - which was what was probably missing in the first place.  Under some ongoing guidance from the cop the putative "wee ned" was persuaded into the Royal Navy.  There he found purpose and a way of life that he took to with a passion.  I recall the last I heard he was working his way up the ranks as hard as he could.  

 

On the matter of kids we are lucky here as the local school has kids that are hard working and well behaved.  All my sons friends at school are great kids. Thats not to say there might not be "challenges" but hopefully not big ones. 

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6 minutes ago, JohnT said:

What Skodadriver says above has been my experience with the courts albeit only over a decade of criminal experience on the defence side before seeing the light and departing that ship for the world of the civil courts.  The problem is that by the time kids get to court as adults at 16 the patterns of behaviour are already stamped.  It was my experience that if they can get caught earlier (pun not intended) then there is a turn around chance.  I well remember a young kid about to go off the rails whose Mum lived along the road from us back in the 70's.  She was a widow and struggling with the rebellious teenager.  A very sensible cop dragged him home after some minor misdemeanour and rather than charge him he explained the path the kid was starting up, rattled his cage and gave him a fatherly talking to - which was what was probably missing in the first place.  Under some ongoing guidance from the cop the putative "wee ned" was persuaded into the Royal Navy.  There he found purpose and a way of life that he took to with a passion.  I recall the last I heard he was working his way up the ranks as hard as he could.  

 

On the matter of kids we are lucky here as the local school has kids that are hard working and well behaved.  All my sons friends at school are great kids. Thats not to say there might not be "challenges" but hopefully not big ones. 

Interesting piece.

 

Of interest i live in Jersey Channel Iles.

 

We have a Uniformed traditional Police Force for the whole Island. What has been noticeable is

that we have had in charge of that Police Force a dedicated man from one of the UK's Forces.

He has had a remarkable impact & virtually crime in all aspects has diminished in some cases

dramatically.

 

But even more is done by the Honorary Police Force who have priority over the paid police.

 

We have 12 Parishes populated by about 110,000 people. Each Parish has a Constable &

depending on the size of the Parish a number of Centeniers. Constable & Centeniers

(honorary police officers ie no pay). also have a higher authority than the paid police,

that is in modaration, both get on well as they are after the same goal.

 

Centeniers will at the Parish Hall interview those who have mis-demeaned  & charge &

present their case before the magistrate.

 

However their greatest achievement with youth who have been naughty is to call them to the

Parish Hall with mother & father & give them an almighty telling off. Including if necessary

calling in the Constable to give weight to the matter. This is very successful as word in the

community soon travels at the speed of sound.

 

Our crime is still there but it is very low. Plus a great prison has reduced re-offending dramatically.

This is similar to the Isle of Man which has been televised.

 

Laurie

 

 

 

 

 

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