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elger

Lancaster wreck picture puzzle time!

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The following three (yellowish) images are photos of the wreck of Lancaster W4308 UV-C of 460 Squadron (RAAF) lost during the night of 23/24 January 1943:

 

cyXuoWz.jpg

 

EFjyxHR.jpg

 

6VkZXMn.jpg

 

My connection with W4308 is that according to stories that were told, when the wreckage was removed from the field next to my old home village the crash landing was made it was temporarily stored in the parking lot behind the house where I grew up.

 

Now, yesterday I came across some photos in a PDF version of The Defense of the Reich: Hitler's Nightfighter Planes and Pilots by Holger Nauroth and Werner Held (translated from Die deutsche Nagdjagd) from 1982. One close up of the aircraft's bomb markings indicates, according to the caption, that the aircraft in question ("of an Australian squadron") was lost during an operation to Mannheim. W4308 was lost on a mission to Dusseldorf.

 

x1NoY6D.png

 

The other two kangaroos are marked "Stuttgart" and "Turin"; this sequence followed by "Mannheim" follows the first three operations of 460 Squadron performed immediately after converting to Lancasters in November 1942 (http://www.gordonstooke.com/460squadron/operations.htm). But, 460 only lost a Lancaster on the first mission to Stuttgart (none on the operations to Turin or Mannheim immediately after). In fact, according to http://www.adf-serials.com.au/lancaster.htm no RAAF Lancasters were lost on the Mannheim operation.

 

So, I think that the photos in The Defense of the Reich are of W4308. What are your thoughts on this, if you compare the photos below to the yellowish ones above?

 

4vb4KYR.png

 

Then another question: where do these photos in The Defense of the Reich: Hitler's Nightfighter Planes and Pilots by Nauroth and Held come from? Do better versions exist? I would love to see them!

 

 

 

Edited by elger
fixed typos and other mistakes

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They looks similar indeed, however I can see difference in exhaust pipe cover colour. "Yellowed takes" show it dark, from German book are light.

J-W

 

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3 hours ago, JWM said:

I can see difference in exhaust pipe cover colour. "Yellowed takes" show it dark, from German book are light

Looks like the same plane.

 

I think that the outer engine cover has been removed in the top 'yellowed' photo, so what can be seen is the engine and actual exhausts.

Edited by Johnson

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Elger

 

Not sure if this helps but the Pilot reported having to belly land with the aircraft on fire near Luevorden, having been damaged by a Bf110 whilst on a raid against Dusseldorf. Four of the crew casualty files are available in the NAA if you haven't already seen them.

 

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=1063292

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=1072557

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=1073550

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=1073551

 

As for the pictures I agree with the others, the angle of the blades and the holes in the perspex of the front turret port side are exactly the same, therefore the same aircraft.

 

Buz

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5 hours ago, Buz said:

Elger

 

Not sure if this helps but the Pilot reported having to belly land with the aircraft on fire near Luevorden, having been damaged by a Bf110 whilst on a raid against Dusseldorf. Four of the crew casualty files are available in the NAA if you haven't already seen them.

 

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=1063292 

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=1072557

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=1073550

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=1073551

 

As for the pictures I agree with the others, the angle of the blades and the holes in the perspex of the front turret port side are exactly the same, therefore the same aircraft.

 

Buz

 

I did not see those records before - most fascinating, thank you! "Luevorden" undoubtedly refers to Leeuwarden (which is actually a pretty close approximation of how that's pronounced, phonetically) - which today is about an hour's travel away from where the crash landing occurred.

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