CROUCHING TIGER, FINISHED AND IN RFI.

[Badder]

TAMIYA 1/35th

TIGER I (Frühe)

FRIULMODEL TRACKS (ATL-25)

EDUARD ENGINE GRILL PE

 

 

 

 

It took me 4 hours to find this GIF and work out how to get it on this page, so you'll forgive me if I don't provide well lit, nicely framed and focused photos of the following:

In truth I was having a bit of a laugh, I can't compete with the photos some of you provide, so I've deliberately gone the other way!

 

 

The glares on the kit box, Eduard package and sprue bags took a good deal of setting up to achieve.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Photos of the box of Friuls to come, when I can remember where I put it!

 

Hmmmm. They were in the log basket by the fireplace! I'm guessing they were on the mantelpiece and one of the cats knocked them off! A bit of slug damage will add to the realism.

Let's not forget how German Tigers often slipped their tracks, due to excessive slug slime!

 

BTW, If you compare the detailing of the Friul track links to the details on Tamiya's rubber bands, there's barely any difference - the only notable one being that the guide horns on the Friuls are open. (they have holes in them, in other words) Of course, metal tracks hang better and the individual links don't bend (like rubber) around the sprocket and idlers, but possibly the Friuls aren't worth the extra expense. (Whereas my Nashorn's Winterketten Fruils were worth every penny)

 

 

 

Waits for the fun to begin.

 

 

Badder

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2019 by Badder

[Robert Stuart]

Love your initial title B ("CROUCHING TIGER, HIDDEN TAMIYA" - quoted here 'cause B is bound to change it) - loved the film too

 

Going to sit back and watch you have fun with your Tiger (mmm, could have phrased that better)

 

15 minutes ago, Badder said:

Photos of the box of Friuls to come, when I can remember where I put it! 

Tracks, or the photos?

[Ozzy]

Welcome to the GB Badder, the video is fantastic. This kit was the first Tiger I ever built, I got the engine set for mine. Goes together like a Tamiya dream.

[Badder]

27 minutes ago, Robert Stuart said:

Tracks, or the photos?

Hi Robert,

The tracks. I thought I'd put them in the Tiger kit, but it's not in there. Maybe it's in one of my diorama materials boxes.....

 

Rearguards,

Badder

20 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I got the engine set for mine.

Hi Clive,

I guess you mean the grill set, not an actual model  engine?

Having stalled with my  scratchbuild engine, I'm thinking of buying an aftermarket engine set.... any info on such kits?

 

Rearguards,

Badder

[PlaStix]

Hi Badder. Good to see you here with what should be an interesting (possibly often evolving) project.

Kind regards,

Stix

[Hewy]

 I'm impressed straight off the bat, 4 hours well spent I say, what an opening to your thread 👍

[Badder]

17 hours ago, PlaStix said:

Hi Badder. Good to see you here with what should be an interesting (possibly often evolving) project.

Kind regards,

Stix

Hi Stix,

It's evolved already! It was going to be a Winter Tiger with battle damage undergoing repair.

That idea has morphed into something slightly different, and hopefully, fairly rare in this forum!

 

Rearguards,

Badder

 

16 hours ago, Hewy said:

 I'm impressed straight off the bat, 4 hours well spent I say, what an opening to your thread 👍

Hi Glynn,

I may have exaggerated greatly over the time spent. I already had the Gif, so it was just a case of how to load that onto this page And as it turned out it was no different to posting a normal photo. I just had to use a different link.

 

Rearguards,

Badder

[Ozzy]

On 12/05/2019 at 20:24, Badder said:

 

Hi Clive,

I guess you mean the grill set, not an actual model  engine?

Having stalled with my  scratchbuild engine, I'm thinking of buying an aftermarket engine set.... any info on such kits?

 

Rearguards,

Badder

Hi Badder,

 

Tamyia do an actual engine to fit in the engine bay hole.

 

https://www.tamiya.com/english/products/list/35mm/html/35180.htm

 

regards

 

oz

[Badder]

@Ozzy

 

I got very excited then, Clive, but that's the HL230 engine and not the one used in Early Tigers.  Still, I may get it as I do have a late Tiger and King Tiger in the stash which used it (along with Panthers)

Rearguards,

Badder

Edited May 15, 2019 by Badder

[Robert Stuart]

CMK do a Tiger engine - https://www.cmkkits.com/en/detail-sets-accessories/tiger-i-engine-set-for-tamiya/

That is also listed with Hannants (with the wrong title!)  https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/CMK3066

 

Expensive if it isn't the right model

 

p.s. CMK show instructions on their site - a Maybach HL 210 P 45 engine?

 

p.p.s.  If you can source one, a RyeField Tiger with full interior costs about the same as the Tamiya kit + that resin

[Badder]

 

THEME

 

When I bought this kit - not long after the Tiger GB was announced, I intended to 'do it' in Panzer Grey. For one thing, I don't like 3-colour camo schemes on Tiger I's. For another, I haven't, as yet (in this, my second era of model-making) painted any German AFV in Panzer Grey, so I thought it was about time that I did.  

 

However, I've been having so much fun with winter camo over the past year or so, I changed my mind and decided to go with that scheme instead.

In this kit, Tamiya's instruction sheet shows tank S04 in winter camo. This just happens to have been Michael Wittmann's 'Winter Tiger', although Tamiya make no mention of this at all. Not the kind of person to 'follow the crowd', I quickly decided not to portray his Tiger. Instead, I'm going to portray A.N. Other's Tiger  from the same unit, but one whose history is famously unrecorded. This gives me much more freedom when it comes to the tank in terms of battle damage/mechanical failures, and circumstance.

 

Most of you will be aware that I intend to show the Tiger with the engine cover open, and a scratch-built engine exposed. I did cut one of the cooling fan covers from the rear deck, and began scratch-building the interior firewalls and that engine, but in all honesty, starting work on the Tiger before the actual start date felt a bit 'wrong' and I kind of ran out of Ooompf.

 

But that idea still stands, and I will TRY to scratch-building the interior. Since ceasing that scratch though, I've had another idea concerning the 'circumstance' of the Tiger. That though, will be revealed at the painting stage.

 

 

TFL

Badder

 

[Badder]

36 minutes ago, Robert Stuart said:

CMK do a Tiger engine - https://www.cmkkits.com/en/detail-sets-accessories/tiger-i-engine-set-for-tamiya/

That is also listed with Hannants (with the wrong title!)  https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/CMK3066

 

Expensive if it isn't the right model

 

p.s. CMK show instructions on their site - a Maybach HL 210 P 45 engine?

 

p.p.s.  If you can source one, a RyeField Tiger with full interior costs about the same as the Tamiya kit + that resin

That's the one Robert! I shall have a look at the link with regards to ease of ordering/price etc. But that diagram is in itself a useful tool! Thanks very much.

 

Rearguards,

Badder

 

ps. The engine is quite a tight fit in the engine bay, so most of the engine is 'invisible'. Really, one could get away with just building the top half and forget about the rest!

Edited May 15, 2019 by Badder

[Badder]

Is this GIF a bit annoying? 4 'yes's' and I'll get rid of it!

 

One Tiger GIF is fair enough. A Tiger GIF for every post I make in this WIP is TOO MUCH!

 

GIF deleted!

Edited May 18, 2019 by Badder

[Badder]

Whilst I aborted my first attempt at scratch-building the engine, I did remove a cooling fan cover from the rear deck, and began constructing the internal firewalls.

 

Before risking ruining the kit though, I had a bit of a practice on my one and only completed Tiger I (mid) which was the first model I made upon my return to the hobby and is now considered by me to be 'Naff'.

As you can see, I sliced the fan cover off with a bit to spare . I did whittle this down to size, and wondered if the cover could be used to replace the kit's cover. Unfortunately, I then noticed that the grill pattern on the Mid is slightly different to that of the Early, so I had to abandon that idea!

 

 

I've seen a few Tigers with their rears 'opened' up, and sadly, a few otherwise fantastic Tigers where the hatches were opened up the wrong way, or were opened up when they aren't in fact, hatches.

Here are the ACTUAL hatches, and their 'ways of opening':

 

 

The blue arrows show the direction of 'swing' for the hatches. The dashed blue line is supposed to denote the hinge point of the engine cover itself, but I see now that I misplaced it. The hinges can be seen just below this line. Below this, the small panel with the domed cover on it does not in fact open. Neither do the large grills forward of the fan covers. These large grills have 'screws' in them (marked with blue crosses) but they are not there to hold the grill panels in place. The 'screws' are removable caps which give access to the fuel and water intakes, forward and aft respectively.

 

So, with all that sorted,  I carefully removed one of the cooling fan covers from the kit, using a scalpel. Obviously, the act of cutting removes some plastic from the grill cover and/or the deck, but one or both can be repaired.

 

 

The domed cover seen directly above this, gives access to the snorkel attachment. In later models, the snorkel function was deemed unnecessary and the cover was welded shut (as can be seen on the Bovington Tiger) The 'screw' to the right gives access to another air intake.

 

Also visible in the photo, is a piece of white plasticard -roughly marking the position of the internal transverse firewall. I then went on to rough-out the side walls for the engine bay.

 

 

 

I had to shape the tops of the firewalls to fit the forms on the underside of the deck.

 

Next, I needed some reference material for the engine itself. And found this photo:

 

 

This 'early' engine, has 3 air filters, unlike the later engine which only had 2.

Whilst the camera isn't looking down on the perpendicular, the photo does give comparative sizes between the engine and the deck/hatch, so, I figured.........

 

 

That's what I'm going to have to make.....actual size (well, the image of the engine on my screen is actual size.... well, in 1/35th. At 20 percent zoom. On my laptop anyway) You know what I mean! Basically, I can use a pair of dividers/ruler or whatever and take measurements directly from my screen. Whilst not inch perfect, let alone millimetre perfect, it'll be close enough for me!

 

As I said, I did make a half-hearted attempt at starting the engine (forgive the pun) but I abandoned it. I will start again, but this time using FTINFBISS. That though, will come later.

 

The first 'legal' things I'm going to do (now that the GB has officially started) are the tracks and betwixt times, the wheels. Let's get the least exciting stuff out of the way first eh?

 

TFL

Badder

Edited May 18, 2019 by Badder

[Pete in Lincs]

Interesting and some good research, Badder.

But now I'm left wondering which engine covers they used on the top of the Millennium Falcon? Early or late? or Panther?

(Mind you, it is early morning and I haven't finished my cup of green tea yet. The other cylinders in my brain will fire up soon).

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

On 5/16/2019 at 2:13 PM, Badder said:

Is this GIF a bit annoying? 4 'yes's' and I'll get rid of it!

I actually think its a nice touch ? 

[Badder]

52 minutes ago, Pete in Lincs said:

Interesting and some good research, Badder.

But now I'm left wondering which engine covers they used on the top of the Millennium Falcon? Early or late? or Panther?

(Mind you, it is early morning and I haven't finished my cup of green tea yet. The other cylinders in my brain will fire up soon).

Hi Pete,

I'm not 'up' on which parts from which kits were used to make the Falcon, but if Tiger engine engine/cooling fan covers were used I suspect they'd have been from Tamiya's Early Tiger (saying as the film was released in 1977) 

It would be interesting to know just how many 'older' BM members used to play the 'guess the donor kit' game as kids, whenever watching films such as Star Wars, Silent Running, Battlestar Galactica etc. How nerdy were we?

 

Rearguards,

Badder

[Badder]

53 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

I actually think its nice touch ? 

 

Oh well, it's gone for now.... I've been 'working' on my Ever Evolvin' Dio' WIP and a dozen or so shooting Tigers per page was doing MY head in!🤣

 

Reaguards

Badder

[Badder]

The track links then. As I said, these particular track links (ATL-25's) are not as well cast as the PzIV winterketten tracks which I used on my Nashorn, presumably because these were one of Friuls earlier 'models' of track, when they were less experienced! Or maybe the tooling has worn over the years and hasn't been refurbished.

 

There's a lot more flash, some distortion meaning that the hinges between each link are slightly misaligned and require straightening, and many holes through the hinges require cleaning out. Nevertheless, my method of construction deals with all of these problems more quickly than 'prescribed' methods seen on videos. Well, I think so, anyway.

 

Gate marks along the tops of the hinges.....

 

 

Flash in and around the holes for the track pins, and varying amounts of flash in the 'holes' in the guide horns.

 

I could have cleaned up every track link prior to assembly, but to me this is the height of boredom, AND, in my opinion, cleaning ever link beforehand actually slows down the process. WHAT? You may ask.

Well, imagine picking up say, 180 track links, one at a time, and cleaning each one, then putting it down, then at a later date picking each one up again and either laying it down beside another (possibly in a jig) prior to assembly, or joining it directly to another link. Possibly then,  you could be handling each link 4 or even 5 times. That's 720-900 'handlings'

 

You might decide to ream out every hinge with a drill, one after the other. But it might be that some links are clean and need not be drilled.... but you picked it up anyway. Another waste of time and unnecessary multiple handling.

 

With my method, I handle each link just the once if they don't need to be cleaned and no more than twice if they do.

,

Now consider the track pins. Videos would suggest that you cut the wire into 'pin lengths' prior to assembly.  Again, this is a waste of time I believe. You will be cutting 360 pins, storing them in a pot, or whatever, and then at a later date, picking them up in tweezers - not an easy task - and you'll be DOUBLE HANDLING THEM.

 

 Using my method, I don't have to handle, or store a single track pin.

 

Some of you will be aware of 'my method', but for those who don't, I'll post pictures soon......

 

TFL

Badder

 

 

Edited May 18, 2019 by Badder

[GREG DESTEC]

Sounds intriguing 😯 I'll be sure to check this out as I have only ever used the rubber band types. I bet they will look great when fully assembled.

 

cheers Greg 👍

[Badder]

f

 

 

 

fffffffffashfljkafhlah foia;wue[eOWE0FHEAUGP97Y[u#wojfADVBZjgau;7t[5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A BIG THANKS TO THE AUTO-SAVE FUNCTION NOT BLEEDIN' WORKIN!!!!!

 

 

 

THAT WAS OVER AN HOUR IT TOOK CONSTRUCTING THIS POST AND IT'S ALL GONE!!

 

THROWS MY TIGER OUT THE WINDOW.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NOT REALLY

 

 

 

BUT STILL. VERY ANGRY

Edited May 18, 2019 by Badder

[GREG DESTEC]

That's the PITS 😣

 

I assume you have tried reposting. Sometimes it reinstated your previous post.....? If it's going to do this it should come apparent instantly. If there's nada, then it's back to square one.

 

Sorry to hear you lost all the hard work. I hope it's redoable  when you are ready to try again.

 

Cheers Greg 👍

[Badder]

POST UNDER CONSTRUCTION AGAIN!

 

 

 

ABRIDGED VERSION......JUST BECAUSE! OKAY?

 

MY METHOD FOR ASSEMBLING 'FRIULS'

 

The first consideration: Are the links well made and 'clean'?

Now, with luck, the track links will be in good nick, with no flash, gate-marks, or distortion.

In this case assembly can begin, with each link needing to be handled only once, and no fiddly snipping, storing, picking up and inserting track pins.

GO TO 'STRAIGHT FORWARD ASSEMBLY'

 

Probably though, there will be some gate-marks at the very least. So these will need to be cleaned off to allow the correct mating of adjoining links. Worse still, there might be some flash. This is not just unsightly, but it may also prevent good mating. Again, this will need to be cleaned off.

Whatever, assembly can begin.

 

WHAT? I hear you ask? What about cleaning the links up first? What about blocked holes in the 'hinges'? If they are blocked they will need to be drilled out, won't they?

Well, yes to all of that, but not as per the videos you see.

 

 

So let's take that worst-case scenario - a lot of gate-marks, bad flash, distortion and blocked hinges.

The tools required for assembly:

Emery board, file, or sandpaper etc.

Flat-nosed pliers.

Side-cutters/heavy-duty scissors or some other 'snips'.

Pin-Vise with 0.8mm Drill Bit.

 

 

For simplicity, let's assume we're all Right Handed...

 

First, pick up your coil of 'pin wire' and place the middle, ring and an optional little finger of the left hand through it, then clamp it to the palm.  Leave the 'loose' end of the wire pointing upwards and in the vicinity of your thumb and forefinger. Then pick up a 'dirty' track link like so:

With the right hand, pick up a file/emery board and sand off the gate-marks along the BOTTOM edge and any bad flash elsewhere. If the track link is bent, or the pin guides are misaligned, straighten them out now.

Now, with the right hand, grab the wire and insert it into the link's pinholes. Hopefully the wire will go all the way through. Even if this is not the case and the wire only goes part way through, you can now, 'store' the link on the wire, letting it drop down towards the hand. Then pick up the second link and clean this up, remembering that you need only clean up the gate-marks along the TOP edge at this point.

 

 

You will now have two 'clean' links. Using the Right Hand, remove the link on the wire and offer it up to the link between finger and thumb, with the 'first' link on top of the second, like so:

 Check that the two links fit together nicely. Straighten out any bends at this point.

 

Next, grasp the end of the wire with flat nosed pliers and gently push the wire into the hinge.  I'm afraid I only have two hands so taking a photo while holding a track link a pair of pliers and a camera is impossible. You'll just have to imagine that the wire is clamped in the pliers. Best to clamp the wire lengthways in the pliers, as shown:

 

It is important to keep the length of wire protruding from the pliers SHORT. 3-4mm is about right. Any longer and you risk the wire bending and collapsing when it comes up against any blockage within the hinge.

So, begin to push the wire in, at that 3-4mm rate.

In this 'worst case' scenario, we'll imagine that the holes for the pin are blocked. In extremis, you could now drill them out using the Pin Vise and 0.8mm Drill Bit, but I don't usually bother. Instead, I twist the wire repeatedly clockwise and anti-clockwise and use the wire itself as a drill bit. I've not as yet failed in 'drilling through a blockage' this way.

 

Continue with these processes until the wire reaches the far end of the hinge and the blocked end that is intentionally there.

IF you are unsure as to whether the wire has gone all the way, you can either retract it fully and lay it across the link to compare lengths and re-insert it, or you can continue to 'twist' and drill right through the track link. The latter is probably not the best solution, but it's not a disaster. Simply retract the wire back in a bit and apply a blob of medium CA to the hole. The other way to check is to try and pull the 'questionable' end of the links apart. A 'short' pin will allow a gap to open up between the links at that far end. I'll show photos of that later.....

 

 

 

Once the wire is all the way in though, you will have two joined links and you can now snip the wire off. I usually leave 1mm or so of pin sticking out, just in case I have to remove it.  These '1mm sticky-out bits are not usually visible, being on the inner side of the tracks, under the vehicle. However, they would be visible fore and aft at the sprockets and ilders, so I make sure to snip those pins off flush. Again, I only have two hands, so you'll have to imagine.....

 

 

With the pair of links joined, it's time to sand/file off the gate-marks along the BOTTOM of the bottommost link and 'store' the pair on the wire.

Now the next link can be picked up and cleaned - the gate-marks along the TOP edge being the main focus. The previous procedures are then repeated and again repeated until I have a set of five links.

 

And that's the final consideration:

To stave off boredom I tend to assemble 5 links at a time until I have enough sets to make up a full length of track (or thereabouts)

I then join pairs of 5 together to make sets of 10, and sets of 10 together to make 20's and so on. This not only staves off boredom, but it is far easier to join two long equal lengths of track together than it is to keep adding one link to an increasingly long length.

 

 

PROBLEMS AFTER ASSEMBLY:

 

Here's a photo of two joined sets of 10, which I made earlier today,  As you can see I placed the length against a straight edge to check the tracks for straightness. There was a bit of a bend in them along their length due to the bad tooling of the moulds and distortion of the links themselves. To straighten the bend I pulled fairly hard on the ends of the track length. AND whilst doing that it became apparent that one of the track pins hadn't gone 'all the way'. A wider gap can be seen between the 4th and 5th links from the right (the blurry bottom of the photo)

 

As usual,  I'd left a tiny bit of wire sticking out of the top edge and I was able to grasp the pin with the flat-nosed pliers, pull it out and replace it with a new pin. Also, note the wires sticking out of the bottom edge of the links far right; these were where I accidentally 'drilled' the wire right through the hinge. I was able to push these back in and snip off the opposite end that then protruded. With these problems sorted it was time to fix the pins with medium CA. 

 

 

STRAIGHT FORWARD ASSEMBLY.

 

Before purchasing my first ever AM tracks, for my Nashorn, I checked out a few vids to see if Friuls were worth the money and the time and effort. I quickly decided that they were worth the money and the effort for their 'realism', but was a bit concerned about the 'TIME'.

 

In quite a few vids guys were shoving the pin wire into one link, marking the point of full insertion,  withdrawing it, measuring its length then carefully cutting 180 or more pins from the coil of wire - dropping many during the process, and having difficulty picking them all up and storing them safely in a pot - then having just as much difficulty in picking them up again and handling them during track assembly.

 

This struck me as an utter waste of time: over-complicated and unnecessarily fiddly, cumbersome, frustrating and boring.

 

The solution, to me was obvious; don't bother!

Only cut the pins from the coil when they are each needed, and only when the wire is stuck fully in the link!

This saves maybe hours of fiddling and faffing about, double, treble, or even quadruple handling, losing pins, impaling fingers and feeding the carpet monster or an unshod foot along the way!

 

I also watched with some amusement as they picked up each link and cleaned off the inevitable gate-marks, plus any flash and checked every pin hole for blockages, drilling out those (USUALLY very few) that required drilling. Really? With NINE pin tubes' per link, that's a hell of a lot of probing for what inevitably ends up being relatively few drillings! So why not save time by drilling any blockages out WHEN YOU FIND THEM. IF YOU FIND THEM. And why not use the pin wire itself as the drill bit? - probably saving expensive drill bit breakage as a bonus!

 

And finally, I watched in astonishment as one guy laid all of his track links out on a jig before pushing each of the 180 pre-cut pins into them.

 

Now, I've spent a good few hours today, taking photos, uploading them, constructing this post, accidentally deleting it and having to re-bloomin do it all again, but I've ALSO FINISHED ASSEMBLING THE TRACKS AND AM ABOUT TO PAINT THEM! And these were much more troublesome than those for my NASHORN. Bear in mind that those took me several hours per night for several nights to finish. Now I'm a dab hand at my method I can knock them out in pretty-bloomin'-quick-time!

 

 

OMG I VERY NEARLY LOST THE LOT AGAIN!

Luckily, auto-save worked this time!

 

 

TFL

Badder

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Badder

[Badder]

8 minutes ago, GREG DESTEC said:

That's the PITS 😣

 

I assume you have tried reposting. Sometimes it reinstated your previous post.....? If it's going to do this it should come apparent instantly. If there's nada, then it's back to square one.

 

Sorry to hear you lost all the hard work. I hope it's redoable  when you are ready to try again.

 

Cheers Greg 👍

Hi Greg,

Yep, it 'saved' an earlier version, without the photos and without the edits and additions. I tried the usual, and nope... the 'saved' version was badly written and disjointed, so in a fit of rage I deleted the lot.

 

It's not the first time it's happened and it won't be the last. Maybe BM is trying to tell me make shorter posts!?🤨

 

Rearguards,

Badder

 

 

[Badder]

 

Visible in the bottom set of tracks are the slightly 'askew' track pin er... thingies....  those bits of the links where the pins are first inserted - kinda cylinders with hole in. Someone will tell me what they are called, I hope!

 

Anyway, they are nearly all slightly bent out of line - due to old/bad tooling - and some made it difficult to get the pins in at first. A bit of bending and 'wire twisting' got around this most times. In a few cases I had to choose a different link.

 

 

Again, these are the innermost sides of the tracks and most will be hidden under the Tiger.  Now for some paint!

 

I'm going for a grey acrylic primer first (decanted from an aerosol can and fed into my H&S Evolution CR plus AB. If you've got one, flaunt it!) Hopefully, this will lessen the amount of bare metal exposure which sometimes occurs with handling the finished tracks during fitting.

I'll be colouring the tracks with a homemade mix of Burnt Umber, Red, Blue and Sap Green acrylic inks before applying ink washes of Black and Sepia. Then I'll be applying a wash of Tamiya acrylic Buff, and a dry-brushing with Gun Metal flavoured Weathering Master. That's as far as I'll be going for the foreseeable future, but the tracks will be getting mud and probably snow as well in future.

 

TFL

Badder

Edited May 18, 2019 by Badder