Merlin Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Hi, I need to find a satin varnish that does go on perfectly, no shiny areas and matter areas, can be sprayed in a wide pattern to avoid that, and wont go sugary or dusty as a result of the greater distance, is not affected by distance and pressure and atmosphere humidity etc, and dries rock hard overnight , can be handled , is not tacky, will not end up with finger prints, or nitrile glove prints and is a nice even satin. Will not attack Valejo Model colour or other acrylics. Must not be white as it will make black go grey. Overnight or same day curing is important, for speed modelling. Suggestions please. Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael louey Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Hi Merlin, I've had success with the Alclad Semi Matt finish - https://www.wonderlandmodels.com/products/alclad-ii-4oz-semi-matt-satin-klear-kote-varnish/ however I mainly paint with enamels though some colours might be acrylic (some whites for instance). We've used the equivalent matt varnish on my son's AFV's and some are painted in Tamiya Acrylics and there are no frosting issues with those. Cheers Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted May 10, 2019 Author Share Posted May 10, 2019 Hi, I have Alclad II gloss, semi matt and matt here. Just googled them and users say the Gloss remains tacky. for Gloss they say everyone likes the aqua, but I see its white, which will lighten colours and blacks go grey. After googling for 40 mins on Klear Kote I keep seing that its remaining tacky, its s bit worrying. Was you satin sprayed on a damp day or fresh day ? No one states the weather which can be important. maybe you hold the secret. Its a fresh dry day so I will test spray mine ! Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 If you have the clears why don't you do some tests on a paint mule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted May 10, 2019 Author Share Posted May 10, 2019 Hi, I plan to, first of all I have to try and catch him, carrot might work. Merlin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnl42 Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 I like Micro Scale Industries Micro Flat and Micro Satin. Water soluble. I find they dry quite fast, but I can't vouch for your distance requirement. Mr Color has taught me to spray in quite close. For gloss, I use Mr Color or Tamiya, thinned with the appropriate thinners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMA131Marine Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) In reply to the title of this OP, I have not found a single varnish, whether it be gloss, satin, matt, ultra-matt, that I have not screwed up at least once. I need a varnish that's me-proof! Edited May 10, 2019 by VMA131Marine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted May 11, 2019 Author Share Posted May 11, 2019 Hi, If satin or even gloss varnish is applied as per the rule book, i.e. use the manufacturers recommended thinner, ratio, psi , nozzle diameter and distance, also on a day when weather is as they suggest, be that fresh or damp, (I think fresh is the norm) and it misbehaves, satin going matt or gloss going satin or even matt, remaining tacky, then its worthy of a red flag and being avoided. If someone doesnt stir it THOROUGHLY, and doesnt do one of the rules above, its worth knowing what was excluded. Trouble is the pots have no guidance on them, folk suggest all sorts of thinners and psi and nozzles. Some kind of in depth testing or assembly of data is required to form a picture of what varnish has latitude in its rules of application. Posters rarely give us the full set of data on what was used as per the 2nd row of this post. Why is it that varnishes are so undependable after 50 yrs of modelling science progression ? Which ones are reliable ? A survey might help. Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Might be difficult to find depending on where you are but if you are in Scandinavia or have mates here who can pick it up for you (this is also possibly available in Germany), then Oceanlack from Panduro. They have three water based varnishes, a gloss (which is seriously properly glossy), a satin/semi gloss and a matt. They dry rock hard in 30 minutes and are not affected by decal solutions, over coating with enamel, etc. They even brush on perfectly, self levelling with no brush marks. After finding this stuff I have literally chucked all my other stuff out. The gloss for example is better than original Klear/Future. Available in 50ml and 250ml bottles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Regarding your "must not be white", I believe in most of these cases the white stuff is matting agent or other materials that are needed for the coat to be effective. I would argue there would be more color shift from changing the reflection/refraction of light on the object from the overcoat than from any of the whiteness (when properly applied, of course), so I wouldn't worry about the color of the medium. I've tried a lot of overcoats because I was never satisfied (probably due to my own inexperience more than anything) with the results. That said the only one I have that has worked perfectly since day 1 was Alclad Semi-matte as a finishing coat on the few modern aircraft I've completed. If nothing else, the Alclad's don't need to be thinned with anything, so that takes one potential factor of screwing up out of the equation. There's no better way than to find out yourself whether they work for you or not. Especially because it sounds like you already own some? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 Avoid Humbrol's acrylic satin topcoat - it gives an unrealistic frosted appearance on dark colours, possibly due to matting agent particle size. It also dries quite blotchy/streaky-looking when applied with a brush; this effect is worsened by trying to thin it. Thanks to all that, I'm bracing myself to attempt to strip the model I trusted it on just yesterday (never again...), I hope without removing too much filler. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewr9fkr9595 Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 Xtracrylix clears (the satin and matt) are quite good as top coats. Not bothered with their gloss one as never needed a final shine on a project and I use the thinner covering alclad aqua-gloss in between decals and weathering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sapperastro Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Never had an issue with humbrol satin cote. I have had bad batches of tacky gloss cote, and some streaky matt cotes, but never a satin cote issue. As with any solvent based varnish, try to apply it somewhere above 20 degrees celcius and not overly humid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 On 6/4/2019 at 11:03 PM, sapperastro said: Never had an issue with humbrol satin cote. I have had bad batches of tacky gloss cote, and some streaky matt cotes, but never a satin cote issue. As with any solvent based varnish, try to apply it somewhere above 20 degrees celcius and not overly humid. I've never had trouble with the solvent-based-"cotes" (as Humbrol called them) either, but I was talking about the Humbrol acrylic satin topcoat - see my earlier post. Since I'm using Akan acrylic paints, I wanted to use an acrylic topcoat. Regardless, now I've got Akan's own version on order, so I can dump the Humbrol, assuming Akan works better. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sapperastro Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 No, I read that, hence why I was throwing out the suggestion for the Satin Cote. I use it just fine on enamel or acrylic paints. I have never had much luck with acrylic coats of matt or satin, as they seem to leave quite a frosted finish in comparison to the solvent based formulas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 17 hours ago, sapperastro said: No, I read that, hence why I was throwing out the suggestion for the Satin Cote. I use it just fine on enamel or acrylic paints. I have never had much luck with acrylic coats of matt or satin, as they seem to leave quite a frosted finish in comparison to the solvent based formulas. Well, thank you for your good advice - I went and actually tried it (Humbrol Satin Cote over Akan aqueous acrylic paint) instead of just assuming a bad outcome and got very good results for a rough, unthinned brush-on, definitely better than the Humbrol acrylic satin. I was wrong in my belief that the Satin Cote solvent would attack the acrylic paint, proving once again that "one test is worth a thousand expert opinions" (especially when one of them is mine)! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 On 5/31/2019 at 10:56 PM, Shin said: Regarding your "must not be white", I believe in most of these cases the white stuff is matting agent or other materials that are needed for the coat to be effective. That's correct. The matting agent is typically a material like ground glass powder or something similar. All binders I can think of are naturally glossy and gloss paint or clear coat is simply the same as satin or matt but without any flatting agent added. Flatting agents cannot dissolve in binder - they are suspended. Like all suspensions, they are susceptible to gravity over time which afflicts paints as it does all things in nature. Unlike the unwelcome effects on humans though which gravity and time conspire to effect on us all, paints and clearcoats can be restored by proper and aggressive mixing. At every opportunity I will suggest and endorse electric paint stirrers. I recommend them so often that I really ought to stock and sell them but I never seem to join the dots there 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sapperastro Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Good to hear it worked out all good John. I have never had an issue painting enamels over acrylics before. Sometimes I have had issues with the other way around, but usually only when the enamel isn't fully cured and the oily surface deflects the water based paint. Good to see you Jamie, and I have to say Jamie steered me onto electric stirring as well, though I went with the Scottish method (haha sorry Jamie..) of buying a coffee frother and taking the spring off the end. Works a treat on those paints that are heavily coagulated in the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted November 2, 2019 Author Share Posted November 2, 2019 Hi, The white I refer to is in varnishes like Vallejo and Lifecolor, also Liquitex, its like WHITE liquid as opposed to the matting agent that one sees settle out in Alclad or Humbrol or testors etc. Only the water based acrylics have the WHITE liquid that never settles out, and it makes a black go grey, not just matt black. I had Galleria Satin varnish go dead matt on a model, so months later sprayed it with Alclad ll semi matt 15psi 0.4 nozzle (no thinning required) and that varnihs goes down just as one would dream for, and 7 months later when holding it it takes to the fingers after 10 or so secs, so vinyl gloves required. I have used it again on items to go onto the model and done a test card as before, this tijme its 3/4 matt, same botle same psi etc etc, I absolutely hate varnishes. 60 yrs of modelling development and still we havent an idiot proof varnish. Nothing out there works consistently. I use Tamiya Gloss thinned with Mr H self levelling thinners as is said can be done, fantastic glazed finish, but creates fingerprints after several secs weeks later. The Alclad ll seemed so good, the way it goes down, no peculiar textures as with Johnson Klear, or a water based varnish, just makes you feel this is my quest over. What can one spray over Alclad ll semi matt half a day later to correct the sheen from 3/4 matt to satin and not have some failure of some kind result such as tackiness or orange peel or whatever. Also should varnish be sprayed at 10 psi or 15 psi or 20psi, what nozzle and what distance ? Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnl42 Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, Merlin said: not have some failure of some kind result such as tackiness or orange peel or whatever. There may be a fool proof paint, but I haven't met it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted November 2, 2019 Author Share Posted November 2, 2019 one has to make a decision, water based or smelly acrylic or enamel varnish over Alclad ll failed semi matt, what is safest ? basic principles here, its probably still 'live'., 16 hrs not enough cure time, but must move on no time to wait a week, show awaits. Am I right in saying its enamel based so maybe humbrol satin cote best ? its a sad state of affairs that we modellers havent a dependable varnish yet. Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasermonkey Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 Just a thought- have you tried adding some Rustins Driers to the Alclad semi matt? It has speeded up the drying time on all the enamels I have tried so far and while the Alclad is lacquer based, I think it should work. Cheers, Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted November 2, 2019 Author Share Posted November 2, 2019 (edited) Hi, Rustins Driers...worth noting, but I like enamels as they dont dry on needle and make airbrushing hell, as acrylics do,... maybe a bit might stop varnishes remaining tacky, this is tacky several months later, thats not right at all. It was sprayed over Galeria satin varnish 4 months after the Galeria went on.)and went matt !) It dries ok, this time, unable to alter whats already down now from 7 months ago, just stuck with it in more ways than one !, current problem is semi matt has gone 3/4 matt, now to try and fix, it, try overspray with something that might go satin such as humbrol satin cote,then i wonder what thinner ratio, using humbrol thinner. wish these manufacturers would put a recommended thinner ration psi and nozzle and distance on pots, there is usually NOTHING to aid us. Merlin Edited November 2, 2019 by Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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