Spitfire FR.18 Downward Identification lamps

[Tomas Enerdal]

Dear All,

The search for the Spit FR.18 continues.

Ever preparing myself for the forthcoming Airfix FR.XIVe that I intend to build as a FR.18.

The presence of the downward facing identification lamps is getting intriguing. In https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235014550-spitfire-mkxviii-mk18-photos-of-wing-panelling-differences-confirmed/ two pieces of info can be seen.

-Each FR.18 wing had a downward facing identification light near the wingtip. These can be clearly seen on pics of real wings in India.

-The enclosed copy from a manual, servicing panels, confirms those but does not show an identification lamp under the fuselage.

-However; in https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234924966-spitfire-mk-xive-serial-needed/&tab=comments#comment-1107892 Edgar mentioned that “On the XIV, the amber light was moved aft, between frames 15 & 16, below the radio hatch, which was also moved aft, to make room for the fuselage fuel tank behind the pilot (Tamiya got its position correct, in their 1/32 XVI.) On the 18, it went even further aft, to make room for the cameras.”

-Pics of runners from the new Airfix FR.XIVe has an Id lamp on the center fuselage, between the radiators. See https://imodeler.com/2018/11/airfix-new-tool-1-48-supermarine-spitfire-fr-mk-xiv-review/ This corresponds with the position on the Tamiya 1/32 XVI.

-The Peter Cooke plans do not have any under fuselage id lamp under the fuselage at all, neither the Mk.XIV nor the PR.XIX (the FR.18 is only shown in a side view.). The plans don’t have any lamps under the wings either.

Looking at other scale model plans does not help. They are often contradictory to each other and errors that have crept in can be seen.

The pilot’s notes for both the Spit XIV/XIX and Spit 18 mentions the presence and operation of the “downward identification lamps”. “Amber, red or green lights may be selected…”. My copy of the Pilot’s notes for the XIV/XIX is the 2nd edition, however, from April 1946. I wonder if these were introduced during later production?

There are a number of restored Mk.18 around originating from India. I have looked at pics of these but it soon becomes obvious that many wartime items have been omitted during restoration. Gun bulges, case ejector slots, downward camera windows (!), identification lamps to name a few. Understandable considering that these have been restored to fly, but sad nevertheless.

While looking for underside pics I found the following interesting pic of a Belgian FR.XIVe; http://www.belgian-wings.be/Webpages/Navigator/Photos/MilltaryPics/post_ww2/Supermarine%20Spitfire%20XIV/Supermarine%20Spitfire%20FR.14%20Frontpage.html This kind of confirms Edgars statement as above. Note the lamps at the wing tips and the rear id lamp under the fuselage!

But that FR.18 underside is elusive! I have looked for underside pics of operational FR.18 in order to understand what the underside looked like. So far in vain. Can somebody help?

TIA,

Tomas Enerdal

[Tomas Enerdal]

Dear all,

It seems like one tends to find the answers to raised questions just after the said question has been voiced in public.

Yesterday evening i stumbled across a long, long thread here on BM about a 1/18 Spit XIVe in Canadian racing colours. To be frank I became awestruck, what a fantastic work of modelling art that is! It contains a lot of inspiration and useful information, too. On page 27 there is some quite useful info about downward identification lamps, including quotes from Edgar Brooks; "Regarding the XIV & XVIII, drawings show the fuselage lamp moved back to aft of frame 15, on the XIV, and 16, on the XVIII; can't find anything similar on any other Marks, so I'm assuming that, on the Merlin Marks, it stayed put. As far as I can tell, the light remained amber (certainly, that's the colour of the light in Rolls-Royce's XIV, being rebuilt at Bristol.)"

And looking at the Peter Cooke plans again, I noted that the identification lamps are in these plans, but only in the cutaway section on page 1! And yes, the fuselage lamp can be seen just aft of frame 15...

I'm posting this here for those who, like me, would like to make an accurate Mk.18

 

I'll be looking through that long thread many times in the future! What a gift it is to us modellers in many ways, thank you! 

 

But again, if someone can point me in the direction of pics of FR.18 fuselage undersides? It would be soooo nice to have it confirmed.

TIA

Tomas Enerdal

[BS_w]

XIV had id lamp under the fuselage between frames15/16 and under each wing between ribs 18/19

  it's similar on mk VII & VIII.
when there was only one downward id lamp under the fuselage (or the wing on the Mk VIII early), the amber lens could be replaced by red or green lens as purpose required

[Bedders]

This thread is good on the wing lamps; less clear on the fuselage one. 

 

 

Justin