SAS/Commando Jeeps in Europe

[RobL]

Hi

When the SAS (or any British commando units) were deployed in Europe after D-Day were their Jeeps just oversprayed SCC 15 over the desert sand colour they used in North Africa or were they completely stripped back and resprayed SCC 15 over primer prior to being deployed in Europe?

 

If so, what primer colour did they use?

Thanks in advance.

Edited May 6, 2019 by RobL

[Graham Boak]

I suspect that they would not have shipped their worn jeeps back but received new equipment.  In which case the US Olive Drab would have been retained.

[RobL]

XF-62 it is then!

[Andrew Jones]

Some of the SAS Jeeps used in Europe were quite heavily modified , with extra fuel tanks , armoured screens and weapons mounts added, so they would probably have been repainted in SCC15 after the work was carried out.

 

Andrew

[RobL]

Thanks guys.

Edited May 6, 2019 by RobL

[John Tapsell]

The SAS Jeeps used in NW Europe wouild have been new-issue vehicles rather than worn-out desert veterans - very few units of any kind brought their vehicles back unless they were particularly specialised items.

The European spec SAS Jeeps were more sophististicated than the original types used in the desert, so it's not just a case of painting a standard desert SAS Jeep in SCC 15. As Andrew points out, they were fitted with armoured shields and windscreens as well as extra fuel tanks and armoured louvres in front of the radiator.

As a basic pointer, check out the old Italeri 'Commando Jeep' but be aware that it doesn't include all the upgrades such as the armoured radiator covers (fitted between the grille and the radiator itself).

Regards,

John

[AntPhillips]

I'm no expert, but there is some photographic evidence that some of the jeeps used in NWE were desert veterans, take a look at this site: https://riverpinesjeeps.tumblr.com/  lots of pictures of jeeps from all eras and at least 2 show jeeps in service in NWE with the modified radiator grill (sans condenser)

 

The first picture shows a jeep aboard a Water Buffalo whilst preparing for the River Elbe crossing:

 

And the second taken near Essen:

 

Some food for thought there.

[John Tapsell]

Hi Ant,

 

Very little equipment came back from North Africa to the UK. Troops going to Sicily/Italy took their equipment with them whilst other equipment got dumped in scrapyards, cannabalised for spares or re-issued to other units to replace losses. The vehicles were generally in a very poor state it wasn't worthwhile shipping them home to the UK (the same is true of trucks, tanks and other armoured vehicles). Only really specialist/secret stuff like CDL tanks were brought back to the UK as a priority.

The lack of radiator grille bars isn't unique to desert veterans - it was common on European vehicles too as any weight saved on these air-portable Jeeps was a bonus.

 

Note your first photo shows the very top of the armoured louvre behind the radiator grille (it's showing above the box on the bumper). The Jeep in the lower photo doesn't have it fitted but you can see the void area between the grille and the rad itself where the armoured louvres were located.

 

Note also that these Jeeps have the same modifications as Para Jeeps - cut-down bumper, no external hand-holds and no footplate behind the front fender.

 

Regards,

John

[AntPhillips]

Hi John,

 

Thanks for the info.

[Kingsman]

There were 2 standards of Jeep in SAS service in NWE.  Essentially, ground role and airportable.  As a rule of thumb, those with the armour and fuel tanks (the armour often later being removed) and 4 VGO guns were ground role and used by SAS units assigned to support land forces in an LRRP role.  They found their way as far as Norway and were used by the units assigned to track down German VIPs.  These by and large did not have the airborne mods but were slower and handled badly because of the extra top weight and were often stripped back by users, especially the French and Belgian SAS units.

 

The Jeeps used by SAS units behind German lines in France had to be flown in by Dakota.  They were stripped-down airborne-type vehicles without armour or large fuel tanks and generally carried only 1 or 2 VGO guns, sometimes Browning M1919.  They were more akin - in fact almost identical - to the airborne recce Jeeps used at Arnhem.

 

Italy I'm not so sure about.  But the Jeep in the LVT in the photo is definitely airborne spec, although unusually it seems to have a single half-moon windscreen for the driver.

 

So it can be hard to tell from photos exactly what you're looking at.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Das Abteilung
bad spelling!

[John Tapsell]

53 minutes ago, Das Abteilung said:

the Jeep in the LVT in the photo is definitely airborne spec, although unusually it seems to have a single half-moon windscreen for the driver.

Check out the passenger side - the twin vickers are pointing almost skywards, so you are effectively looking along the gunshield from the bottom and it's almost invisible.
 

Regards,

John

[Kingsman]

So proof that there were at least some airborne spec with the front armour in Italy.  You can't see if it has the rear tanks, armor or guns.

[Aeronut]

Some of the SAS jeeps were airdropped from Halifax. 

[AntPhillips]

14 hours ago, Das Abteilung said:

So proof that there were at least some airborne spec with the front armour in Italy.  You can't see if it has the rear tanks, armor or guns.

Apparently the photo of the Jeep aboard the Buffalo is featured in The SAS In WWII: An Illustrated History by Gavin Mortimer and is captioned as being of preparations for the River Elbe Crossing in NWE not from the Italian Campaign.

[John Tapsell]

On 5/9/2019 at 8:21 PM, Das Abteilung said:

So proof that there were at least some airborne spec with the front armour in Italy.  You can't see if it has the rear tanks, armor or guns.

The Elbe is in Germany, not Italy.

 

The crossings took place on/after 29th April 1945.

 

Regards,

John

[Kingsman]

Indeed it is. Next lesson: read the captions properly!