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Focke-Wulf Triebflügel (Amusing Hobby) 1:48


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14 minutes ago, Richard502 said:

Is the Triebflügel concept in any way aerodynamically sound or just a crackpot idea to keep some designers safely in their offices instead of the trenches?

Wondering, Richard

P.S.: wouldn't the failure of one engine have serious -and spectacular - consequences?

I think that we could possibly do it now if we threw enough money into the project today with the benefit of hindsight and massive computing power, but I can't see any way that they could have made it work back in 1944/5 when their best manufacturing facilities were covered in rubble, and the Allies were bearing down on them.  Look how long the gestation of the tilt-rotor was, which had the benefit of at least solid state computers from the outset.

 

There are just too many horrible ways to get killed when flying one, ignoring the take-off landing phase, the latter being one of the many reasons the Pogo was cancelled.  Any damage to anything that spins will create a horrible imbalance that will vibrate the airframe to pieces, even if they could manage to put some kind of sliding counterbalance into play to offset stuff like this, an electro-mechanical solution would have been fiendishly complex and therefore heavy.  Seizing a bearing would transfer all that stored energy into spinning the fuselage, probably covering the cockpit with red goo, or at the very least rendering the pilot insensible for the duration of the trip into the ground (probably for the best).  Big heavy rotating things also tend to want to continue going in the same direction, so there would have been some issues with turning, especially if attempting to do it quickly in a dogfight.  You'd likely rip the aircraft to pieces if you jerked the stick too hard one way or another.  Engine failure would also be a nightmare without computer controlled output, and you have no glide-slope to speak of when you shut down the engines to compensate, so you'd be looking at making a big hole in the ground if you didn't bail out immediately.

 

Long story short, it's probably best that it stayed on the back of a napkin, like so many fanciful designs of the period.  However, let's not be too unkind on the designers of the time, as what seems common sense to us 70+ years later was pushing the envelope of aviation and aerodynamics, as well as engineering of the day.  Brave times, and part of me wishes that someone rich and frivolous would at least try to make a working copy of one of these things ^_^

 

I've bulked out and stiffened the main gear leg now, so I'm working on a little oleo-scissor just to busy it up and will post up a pic once I've got it in primer :) Those castors are going to require a little thought. :hmmm:

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Another thing that springs to mind. Assuming the fuel tank is in the fuselage, how does the fuel get to the engines?

I know they managed it in the old WW1 rotary engines but.... AND, are these ramjets? if so don't they need to be spun up to speed to operate?

Which brings about the subject of ground resonance on a narrow track undercarriage until a gyroscopic state occurs?

As Mike says, probably best it stayed on a napkin.

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3 minutes ago, Richard502 said:

Is the Triebflügel concept in any way aerodynamically sound or just a crackpot idea to keep some designers safely in their offices instead of the trenches?

Wondering, Richard

P.S.: wouldn't the failure of one engine have serious -and spectacular - consequences?

Interesting point, although Focke-Wulf do seem to have put a lot of effort into the design. 

 

Martian 👽

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1 hour ago, Pete in Lincs said:

Assuming the fuel tank is in the fuselage, how does the fuel get to the engines?

That was something I was pondering too, as although you could conceivably make a workable solution, it would be very prone to wear and temporary at best.  I believe that getting the Ramjets up to speed was to be achieved by the use of small solid-fuel rockets, then it would lift up once it got up to operating speed, which was 220 RPM.  The instructions say that they got as far as wind tunnel testing before the end of the war.  Sounds like a bit of a Natter, insofar as it would have killed more pilots than enemy :S

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In fact work on the project only stopped when Focke-Wulf's facilities were over-run. Schiffer do a really good book on the subject called Dragonfly, the Luftwaffe's experimental Triebflugeljager project by David Myhra (ISBN 0-7643-1877-2). Where's that big Miniart kit? :frantic:

 

Martian 👽

 

 

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13 hours ago, Martian Hale said:

Where's that big Miniart kit? :frantic:

There's a thread on it in the Rumourmonger.  I'm a bit disappointed it's not 1:32, but as that's not really my scale, I'm quite happy with this one ^_^ I'm finishing off the main gear leg now, so should be able to take a pic once I'm done.  A little bit of the stiffener pinged off the tip of one half of the yoke, so I'm just fixing that.

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14 hours ago, Martian Hale said:

Schiffer do a really good book on the subject called Dragonfly

You just cost me money! <_<

 

Ok, work's finished on the main wheel, and I'm going to send the finished parts off to Ali to see if he can make a set up for the kit, as IMHO it needs one to avoid frustration during and after construction.  Here's a quick pic of the finished item complete with its scratched new oleo-scissor, which just happens to  I carefully designed to fit snugly within the wheel bay aperture.  The axle is now a piece of 0.8mm brass rod, which should be a bit stronger, and because I've both widened and thickened the yoke, it should stay in one piece, especially if Ali can use it and cast them up in brass.  I also added a bit of a raised section down the middle to break up the slab-sided look of the finished article.  As you can see from pic 2, the castor wheel axle pins are forever popping out of their recesses, so something's going to have to be done about that, and casting them in brass as a complete part is probably going to be the best bet.  I'll leave that up to Ali though ;)

 

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I'm going to carry on building the rest of the model, so it's a race between Ali & I now to see who can get finished first.  :wicked:

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No pressure on Ali then! Work faster Ali, I want a set or two as well. :poke:

 

Martian the Patient 👽

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8 minutes ago, Martian Hale said:

No pressure on Ali then! Work faster Ali, I want a set or two as well. :poke:

 

Martian the Patient 👽

He's in Malta right now, but he's heading back to the grindstone :) Got distracted with summit, but now back having a squint at the castor wheels.  I've also primed the rest of the airframe, but had a bit of an airbrush splutter that put WAY too much paint on two of the tail planes, so the detail has been melted/obscured.  I've got a little bit of repairs to do there, but it's nothing I can't deal with.  These things happen :shrug:

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All looks good and interesting, one thing to decide or to get some input on.

For the castor wheels it looks as if you can position them on the ball joint area to slightly different angles, as these would need to be cast in one piece, should the all be inline/ straight with the castor wheel strut, or should I angle them all slightly differently off line as it were to add interest? I think the later myself, if somebody is going to pose all streamlined with covers over the wheels they will not need the brass wheel set!

Any way challenge accepted Mike, so get that parcel to me.......... best order myself a kit now.

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2 hours ago, Ali62 said:

All looks good and interesting, one thing to decide or to get some input on.

For the castor wheels it looks as if you can position them on the ball joint area to slightly different angles, as these would need to be cast in one piece, should the all be inline/ straight with the castor wheel strut, or should I angle them all slightly differently off line as it were to add interest? I think the later myself, if somebody is going to pose all streamlined with covers over the wheels they will not need the brass wheel set!

Any way challenge accepted Mike, so get that parcel to me.......... best order myself a kit now.

With my sensible head on, yes Mike I do have one, I think it is pretty much a given that the machine would have had no taxying ability. Assuming then that the  machine would have had to be pushed or towed into it's take off position, then the castors would all be pointing in the same direction.  I would be looking for the strongest possible option myself as, I suspect, the majority of potential purchasers will be.

 

Martian 👽

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From my POV, I would just cast the wheels and their yokes for two reasons.  Firstly it gives you the potential to pose the wheels allez uber de platz like an itinerant shopping trolley.  You also would lose the clip-in/out capability if you also cast them with their legs, which is a boon for the building and painting phases.  The yokes fit into a notched cup in the legs anyway, so the joint would be plenty strong enough.  If you're posing it in flight, you don't need the set anyway, as the legs retract to the 2nd détente and the wheels are locked away in the pistachio shells - my new nickname for them, as scattered over my desk that's exactly what they look like :)   I'll take a pic in a minute. :camera:

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On 5/15/2019 at 2:05 PM, Ali62 said:

All looks good and interesting, one thing to decide or to get some input on.

For the castor wheels it looks as if you can position them on the ball joint area to slightly different angles, as these would need to be cast in one piece, should the all be inline/ straight with the castor wheel strut, or should I angle them all slightly differently off line as it were to add interest? I think the later myself, if somebody is going to pose all streamlined with covers over the wheels they will not need the brass wheel set!

Any way challenge accepted Mike, so get that parcel to me.......... best order myself a kit now.

However you decide to cast them, I'll be placing an order fer sure!

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6 hours ago, Mike said:

  If you're posing it in flight, you don't need the set anyway, as the legs retract to the 2nd détente and the wheels are locked away in the pistachio shells - my new nickname for them, as scattered over my desk that's exactly what they look like :)   I'll take a pic in a minute. :camera:

Just remember, you can't actually eat them Mike! :eat:

5 hours ago, billn53 said:

However you decide to cast them, I'll be placing an order fer sure!

Me too, bring them on! I can see that 2019 is clearly going to be the year of the Triebflugel here at Martian Towers.

 

Martian 👽

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2 hours ago, Martian Hale said:

Just remember, you can't actually eat them Mike! :eat:

You eat pistachio shells? :mental:

 

The gear's in a box with Ali's name on, and if I can get them to the PO tomorrow, they'll be that much closer to reality. :)

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The little box of plastic is on its way to Ali as of this afternoon, courtesy of my dearly beloved.  She's asked me to reinstall W10 on her laptop though, so I can't get to the photo booth at the moment, so you'll have to take my word for the progress I've made.  The whole airframe has been primed and the damage to the tail fin repaired.  It's not 100% identical to the other fins, but it's close enough if you squint ^_^ I'm half way through putting the canopy on the model too, starting with the rear section, so I get the spacing correct for the windscreen part.  I've blacked in all the edges with Sharpie to reduce internal (infernal?) reflections, and glued the rear down with GS-Hypo cement.  Once that's dry and I've put a new gunsight glass in, I'll glue in the windscreen, which looks like it might need a little blending in, although it's too early to tell.  meanwhile, here is a nice picture of some kittens :wub:

 

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1 minute ago, corsaircorp said:

Yummi !!

OK, this thread is getting weird now.  No way are you eating those kittens! :fight: @Martian Hale trying to get me to eat pistachio shells and now this horrific thought! :crying:

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On 5/15/2019 at 11:06 PM, Martian Hale said:

would have had to be pushed or towed into it's take off position

Good point me ol' Alien. There would probably be a halftrack with a big clamp on a hydraulic arm to position the Aircraft.

Which raises another point, You'd need a very tall hangar. Unless they lived underground like on Space 1999. Ooh, Luftwaffe Eagles anyone?

 

2 minutes ago, Mike said:

OK, this thread is getting weird now. 

I suspect you may be right. I blame the Alien. 👽

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1 minute ago, Pete in Lincs said:

I suspect you may be right. I blame the Alien. 👽

He's usually not found too far from any weirdness on here :mental:

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Just now, Nikolay Polyakov said:

Excellent job on this kit, Mike! :like:

Thanks Nikolay :yes:

 

Quick newsflash - the gap between the rear bulkhead and the fuselage skin disappears once you put the canopy on, so don't fret about it if you're posing the canopy closed ^_^ If you're opening it up, I'd suggest a little filler and some careful sanding then repainting with RLM66.  If you're really going for broke, some greeblies on the back wall would look nice too, but no pressure ;)

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2 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

I suspect you may be right. I blame the Alien. 👽

Hang on a minute! I didn't invent Britmodeller and I didn't invite some of the world's leading loonies to join. If you invite weird then weird is probably what you are going to get so I think we have to reconsider where the blame might be. Also, what could be weirder than bringing us lot together?

2 hours ago, Mike said:

He's usually not found too far from any weirdness on here :mental:

I'm quite a sensible chap really, wibble.

 

Outraged of Mars 👽

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Quick! Everyone apologise before he calls in a Photon torpedo strike. Or even worse, a Lawyer!

 

"Aliens? Nah, not me Guv. Love 'em, splendid chaps. Really sensible. My Sister married one."

 

It's not going to work, is it?

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8 hours ago, Mike said:

OK, this thread is getting weird now.  No way are you eating those kittens! :fight: @Martian Hale trying to get me to eat pistachio shells and now this horrific thought! :crying:

Whaaat ?? Ow earthling rules !!

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Sorry Sir !

CC

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