Head in the clouds. Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 In the post previous to the last I was talking all things 'sponson struts. I had made the replacements for the kit item that are destined to be fitted to XV371, I made them with a combo of rough measurement and MK1 eyeball and I would not know how accurate they where until I came to fit them. Well, that day came and I was pleasantly surprised to find that in length they were accurate, only a little sanding being needed on the mating faces where they meet the fuselage/sponsons. One of the main reasons for doing this was that when finished it will sit next to the other Sea Kings on the table and look decidedly different, which just won't do. And it looks better; Next to HC4X; I am happy with that. Whilst I was rolling XV371 around in my hand something caught my eye and I did not like it. The modifications I had done earlier on the nose underside were not correct. Let me explain with the help of colourful arrows; 1/The black arrow highlights the horizontal lower airframe line, it is not horizontal. 2/The red arrows highlight the difference in size of the side chins, one is bigger than the other due to 1above. 3/The purple arrow highlights a crease in the middle of the backplate, it should be flat. Also; 4/ The red line shows the upwards curve of the airframe, it should be flat. 5/ The yellow and black line reinforces points 1 and 3 respectively and should slope back more. So basically I had a slope where I did not want one and one where I wanted one but did not have one 🥴 So basically the whole bloomin thing was wrong, subtle, but wrong nonetheless. It should look like this; Like I said, the differences are soft but noticeable so I dismantled the previous work and stated afresh. First job was to flatten out the backplate by fixing spacers and file that horizontal fuselage line level; The same for the underside of the nose to flatten it out; After the spacers had be sanded to the desired way the top and front panels were fixed; With a little filler to sort out the odd small gap it is much improved; Remember these from way back when; I was not looking forward to this job, nearly 50 years in a box may have made them more fragile, they are not very thick anyway but I had nothing to loose by trying to straighten them. First off I tried soaking in very hot water then running them between my fingers. As I feared, this happened. I literally just pulled it like a cracker; And I had nearly flattened it out! ( insert profanities words here) Anyway, with an iron and a very damp cloth I managed to get them reasonably good and flat, however I was now one short so I used one of the spare straight blades from the newer kits, cut it, sanded it and modified to end up with a full set. XV371 has these earlier metal blades as does XV651 whereas ZB506 has the latter blades. There has been much written and asked on this forum with regard to the colour of these blades, so not having any pics of 371 showing definitive colour I am going for Dark Green upper and Black lower for both SH3D XV371 and HAS1. XV651, ZB506 will get Dark Grey upper and Light Grey lower. Moving on from the nerve racking rotor blades I started to look at ZB506 and the barn door style FOD deflectors, I believe were also to stop ice in-gestation into the engines which brought down one of the development SH3'D's The kit item comes in 2 parts and just needed a little filler to smooth out the join, however , when placed on top of the cabin roof there is a gap on the side which does not seem to be there on the real thing, but the front does seem to have a small gap which the kit item seems to capture fine. To eradicate the gap a couple of pieces of my favourite Evergreen plastic card fixed in place and sculptured to shape; The gap has gone and the smallest amount of filler will suffice and the small gap is maintained at the front; If you wondering, no, it is not fixed so I will not have a problem removing the masking😀 Being a stubborn so and so I am not going to give up on the Lynx nose that went so horribly wrong when I filled it with liquid plastic goo. To this end , over the past several days I covered it in Green putty; Sanded back to the approximate shape I am looking for then covered it in Mr Hobby 1000 filler liquid; Then sanded again to further refine the shape; Just to check everything was even and balanced I checked it by clamping in the jaws of the vernier calipers and holding to the light; After what I started with I am more than happy with this, although not finished it gives me a reasonable platform to start from....result! Thanks for looking. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyf117 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) More nice work going on there... Couple more pointers - first, that fairing under 371's nose is a poor representation of the style fitted to USN SH-3's... ....as you can see from your reference pic, it needs to be replaced by the RN type ACB fairing with early style of light, whilst in front is the aerial mount as fitted to FAA ASW airframes, which is basically a rectangular base with a couple of antennae. Both the ACB unit and aerial fit are seen to good effect in this enlargeable pic: Also as seen in your reference pic, 371 carried the early flat-plate Doppler aerials, as seen on this HAS.2: Edited January 17, 2020 by andyf117 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 Cheers Andy, I have already altered XV651 to the flat plate Doppler arrangement so XV371 shall receive the same treatment. The ACB and light I am starting today, a reduction in size and shape should help matters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted January 26, 2020 Author Share Posted January 26, 2020 As the stated in the last post I started to look at the oversize arrangement of the ACB fairing/light under the nose of XV371. The Airfix attempt bears no resemblance to either the US SH3D or the RN HAS1, the US version is more of a flat teardrop shape and larger and the RN version is much smaller so the chisel was used to remove the offending item. The item I shall use is seen here next to the ' to be removed' item; Bloated item removed; The hole was repaired simply by inserting a piece of plastic and filling, followed by a quick sanding; A hole was drilled to receive the new light unit. Also in this area is the old style flat plate doppler unit and the aerial unit with 2 small antenna protruding out. The older plates for the doppler are larger than the later plates, these were made from scape PE skeleton; I now added the plates on the fuselage for the tie down loops; The loops( or whatever they are officially called) will be added later to avoid unofficial flight attempts. XV371 has much going on in the nose section, it had a NATO flange fitted to allow the fitting of different sensors for testing, this is what gives it a very different look from other Sea Kings. The main unit which I made earlier is, I have recently discovered,a movable FlIR sensor, the unit on the starboard side is a fixed FLIR and on the port is a camera, all of which have to be modelled. Having no plans for these items and only pictures that show the items fitted I decided to us a method I used as a teenager to draw a AH64A Apache, doubling the size of it in the process using only a rule, dividers and compass . This is the result from 40 years ago; Not the best photograph in the world but you can see the proportions are correct. It is about 600mm or so in size. So using the same method I first did some free hand drawings of the FLIR and camera, adding the measurements later; The pictures I have do not show much detail but I think these drawings are a reasonable representation. My method is to use a Vernier and measure the items dimensions from the pic on the screen, I then look for something on the airframe which matches the jaw measurement on my Vernier, say a window or wheel, I now have a datum to work from. I then measure the window or wheel of the kit and I have my measurement, I can then apply this measurement to my scratch .built FLIR and camera. The main thing to remember is that if the pic I am using is side on then all well and good but if the pic is angled then perspective comes into play and this I cannot compensate for ( or at least I do not know how) so in this case I only use something that is in the same area as the item I am wanting to build. I know it all sounds a bit Heath Robinson but it worked on my Apache so I will try it again. There will be a small amount of error when using a pic that is not side on but I can live with this in the absence of any other reference material. If it works....great, if not we go again with another, yet to be dreamed up, method. Thanks for looking, I shall have some hardware to show next time if it all works. Thanks for looking. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyf117 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 54 minutes ago, Head in the clouds. said: A hole was drilled to receive the new light unit. Also in this area is the old style flat plate doppler unit and the aerial unit with 2 small antenna protruding out. The older plates for the doppler are larger than the later plates, these were made from scape PE skeleton; My method is to use a Vernier and measure the items dimensions from the pic on the screen, I then look for something on the airframe which matches the jaw measurement on my Vernier, say a window or wheel, I now have a datum to work from. I then measure the window or wheel of the kit and I have my measurement, I can then apply this measurement to my scratch .built FLIR and camera. The main thing to remember is that if the pic I am using is side on then all well and good but if the pic is angled then perspective comes into play and this I cannot compensate for ( or at least I do not know how) so in this case I only use something that is in the same area as the item I am wanting to build. I know it all sounds a bit Heath Robinson but it worked on my Apache so I will try it again. There will be a small amount of error when using a pic that is not side on but I can live with this in the absence of any other reference material. If it works....great, if not we go again with another, yet to be dreamed up, method. The Doppler plates look too narrow, Gary - should be squares approx 15" actual (5mm to scale)... ....apart from using a Vernier, your measuring method is exactly how I do it, whether for parts or decals - measure and match to a known quantity... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 21 hours ago, andyf117 said: ....apart from using a Vernier, your measuring method is exactly how I do it, whether for parts or decals - measure and match to a known quantity... Great minds and all that Andy 😀 21 hours ago, andyf117 said: should be squares approx 15" actual (5mm to scale)... The pic at the top of this post and the 2 you posted Andy seem to show 3 different sizes, the top pic of XV371 seem to show them long, your first pic of the RN SAR Sea King shows the smallest of the 3 while the HAS 1 pic shows a slightly larger panel. I have a feeling I need to fatten mine in width and shorten the length. That top pic of mine maybe wasn't the best to use for measurement due to the shallow angle of the doppler plates. A simple fix though. I do wish there was a HAS 1 preserved, that would make life easier in obtaining accurate material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Hey, Gary, I just did a January update read of the thread and am sitting here suitably impressed. Ironing rotor blades! who'd have thunk it? Lots of lovely detail and a willingness to rip it apart and start again. Like it. regards, Pete. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, Pete in Lincs said: a willingness to rip it apart and start again Cheers Pete but it does not do my nerves any good😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I'll drop a couple of casks off..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 28 minutes ago, Pete in Lincs said: I'll drop a couple of casks off..... Luvely jubbly....and I can return your book🍻 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyf117 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Head in the clouds. said: Great minds and all that Andy 😀 The pic at the top of this post and the 2 you posted Andy seem to show 3 different sizes, the top pic of XV371 seem to show them long, your first pic of the RN SAR Sea King shows the smallest of the 3 while the HAS 1 pic shows a slightly larger panel. I have a feeling I need to fatten mine in width and shorten the length. That top pic of mine maybe wasn't the best to use for measurement due to the shallow angle of the doppler plates. A simple fix though. The SAR HU.5 has the smaller 'plinth' version of the aerials, which replaced the earlier flat plates... ....take a look at the photo here: http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/000897269L.html ....run a straight edge along the outer edge of the aerials, and you'll see they're virtually in line with the edges of the sonar well... ....on my kits, that equates to approximately 15" - looking at them again now, I think you may be right in that they're slightly longer than they are wide... Edited January 27, 2020 by andyf117 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, andyf117 said: ...on my kits, that equates to approximately 15" wide - looking at them again now, I think you may be right in them being slightly longer than they are wide... It is enough to turn us to drink Andy, luckily I am having a couple of crates delivered, your more than welcome to......🤣 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basket Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 What a thread ! Brilliant ! Your measurement method is mine also and it works ! Count me among your followers . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 It is rime now to make the fixed starboard FLIR unit and its associated bracketry. I have decided to use thin plastic card to see how it will look and hold up for strength. The shape was marked out as per my measurements and cut to shape, both the base and the sjde plate being made. It became apparent that there was going to be no strength in the bracket due to it being a butt joint so I made a strengthening plate at the joint made from plastic angle. This would not be seen so I thought it worth doing. The hole is for a locating pin that will be fitted to the fuselage to allow me to fit it at a later stage, first to aid painting the dayglo stripes and to stop it being knocked off by my clumsy nature. Once glued we have this; Looking at it I feel it looks a bit soft and fluffy and it will only look worse when it has more items added so I have ordered some brass stock to see if a more satisfactory result can be attained. So for now, no more FLIR…..ting. I now moved on to ZB506, it was time to fit some of the aerials to the underside of the hull. The long aerial came as a replacement with the Airwaves PE set so I compared the two before committing. The kit item actually looks better, having better shape whereas the PE item looks wrong in shape and very 2D so I opted for the kit item. What I may do is snip of the horizontal antenna and replace it with brass rod, it gives me something to ponder. After fitting most of them it made the underside look much more busy; One aerial that I could not fit was the one that sits on the port lower rear fuselage near and just above the tail wheel as in this pic; https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fs3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com%2Fabpic-media-eu-production%2Fpictures%2Ffull_size_0102%2F1154790-large.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fabpic.co.uk%2Fpictures%2Fregistration%2FZB506&tbnid=JCiIBqIPmRiWOM&vet=12ahUKEwixj6vd_qbnAhWL2OAKHUbtCFkQMygAegUIARDMAQ..i&docid=UpSnh7Rj_gq-eM&w=1024&h=725&itg=1&q=zb506 pics&ved=2ahUKEwixj6vd_qbnAhWL2OAKHUbtCFkQMygAegUIARDMAQ A small semi circle was cut from thin plastic card and reinforced with scrap plastic, green putty filler was then used to build up the shape. It was then sanded back and covered in Mr Hobby filler and smoothed with Mr Hobby self levelling thinner; The aerial will be fitted shortly. Next up for 506 is the floatation cylinders. The earlier type of open cylinder was fitted to XB506 and at first I thought ‘how the hell am I going to make these’ but after a chat with @andyf117 I saw a way forward. The plan is to use 2 US 500ib slick bombs donate by an A6 Intruder that did not make to the shelf of finished models and hollow out the end with a ball shaped grinding bit. That worked fine. Next was to drill the holes in the fins to represent the outside framework, this did not work fine. Two of the fins broke away leaving tow short and two long; No matter, I have about 12 to 16 of these bombs, the A6 was a capable bomb truck after all so I shall go again next time and be more gentle. If it works the fin section will be separated from the bomb casing and we then have our open frame. For the bottle section I am using these flamboyant little numbers from the Range; They come not as a complete sphere but as halves with a sticky pad on the flat surface, this was removed and the two halves glue with CA; A little clean up and these will then fit in the hollowed out bomb fin section and a small piece of brass rod fitted to the bottom of the sphere to complete the flotation canister. Now to find the other bombs and start hollowing out. One last thing done this session was to look at the tail rotors. The item from the old Airfix SH3D kit was of its vintage and a bit soft on detail, the more modern offerings being better and more crisp in appearance; Luckily, the new kits come with a choice of earlier 5 blade rotor and later 6 blade rotor and as I am building a SH3D/HAS1, another HAS1 and lastly a HC4X I needed one 6 blade and 2 five blade rotor respectively. I have enough therefore to replace to older kit item with a newer offering. One aspect that the newer rotors fell short was in the leading and trailing edge, they are square edged and not sharp so I spent a good half hour tentatively removing the flat edge and making it a little sharper. A before shot, not the best unfortunatly; But, and there is always a but, I had only enough PE to do one tail rotor so I choose that rotor destined for ZB506; As ever, thanks for looking. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 18 hours ago, basket said: Count me among your followers . I will take that @basket, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyf117 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Head in the clouds. said: All looking good, though I'd be slightly concerned about one thing - is it a slight distortion in the above photo, or do the stub wings have a bit of a 'forward sweep' to them? The root of the port one looks parallel to the fuselage side, but the starboard one definitely appears canted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted January 29, 2020 Author Share Posted January 29, 2020 18 hours ago, andyf117 said: is it a slight distortion in the above photo, or do the stub wings have a bit of a 'forward sweep' to them Don,t know Andy but I am on it at the first oppertunity.👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 And I've asked her indoors to get some of those jobbies from The Range. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 can't believe I've missed this thread for the last year. I just spent todays spare moments playing catch up on it. There's some really great work going on here and I'm very impressed at the way you are attacking this adventure. No job is too small! I love seeing all the scratch building and modifications taking place. Excellent - keep it up 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 On 1/30/2020 at 12:49 AM, hendie said: can't believe I've missed this thread for the last year. Understandable Hendie, I do believe you had a battle or two on your hands but all's well that ends well. Looking forward to your next epic build. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 After @andyf117 pointed out the starboard undercarriage sponson on ZB506 looked to be swept forward a little the first thing I did was to check it. Looking at the photograph it does look swept a little so I checked it with my little engineers square, this I did for about 15 to 20 mins, I found that it all looked square although from a certain perspective it did look slightly swept, I think on balance I will let sleeping dogs lie for now but keep checking until I am convinced, sometimes a close pic exaggerates what may be a very small error that otherwise would not be noticed on a table display, here are a few pics; Kicking that issue into the long grass for now I had a delivery on Thursday; 0.25mm brass sheet and 4mm square tube, although after looking at the drawing and photograph I may go for a smaller size of square brass, I will decide when I unpack it. First up was the shelf unit that the FLIR will sit on, a plastic one has been made earlier so now I will make a brass shelf and see if it looks better. A piece of brass was cut to size and scribed with a carbide tipped scriber to give a score in the brass which will become the bend line; A 0.6 mm hole was then drilled in the centre of one half, this will hold a locating pin at a later date; The detail was the measured and marked with a jewellers saw to remove unwanted material; Which after a little clean up as you do not want to cut on the line but to one side on the waste material section; Folded and next to the plastic item. For me I am using the brass shelf; Next up was the FLIR unit, this is where the square brass rod will be used. As I mentioned earlier I purchased 4mm brass but after going through my research material I am going for 3mm square brass rod, this is more in scale. After marking out material that had to be removed I first filed the hexagonal shape on to the front of the FLIR. Now I can remember doing this 38 years ago during my apprenticeship on a much larger lump of metal and it is not easy as all six sides need to be equal otherwise it looks lopsided. Anyway I filed away and also removed the material to the rear and side of the FLIR; I then detached the FLIR from the rest of the brass bar and after a little clean up took an end shot; At this scale I am happy with that. And from other angles; Although my reference is somewhat blurred due to me having to scale it up on the screen I think there is a truncated triangular bracket with holes in it so this too needs to be made. I felt that the 0.25mm brass sheet would be a little too thick so I rummaged around for some old PE, and I found it, just the right size. Never throw PE away, not even the skeletons, it comes in very handy; Again, I marked out my cut and bend lines; Marked out for the 0.6mm holes as best I could and drilled with the old Draper mini drill; Only then cut with scissors and bend; And to give scale; When all 3 are together we have this; There is some minor adjustment needed but I am happy with this, and it all went well too. That is today's' shenanigans sorted, hopefully tomorrow I can do a little more; Thanks for looking. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyf117 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, Head in the clouds. said: After @andyf117 pointed out the starboard undercarriage sponson on ZB506 looked to be swept forward a little the first thing I did was to check it. Looking at the photograph it does look swept a little so I checked it with my little engineers square, this I did for about 15 to 20 mins, I found that it all looked square although from a certain perspective it did look slightly swept, I think on balance I will let sleeping dogs lie for now but keep checking until I am convinced, sometimes a close pic exaggerates what may be a very small error that otherwise would not be noticed on a table display, here are a few pics; Certainly can't argue with something that 'Conforms to BS939 for Squareness'! As for the miniscule brass work - simply stuff that's right out of my league... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 nice brasswork - very nice indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 Tonight we have a little more alchemy, this time it is the port mounted camera, and again in that wonderful metal; Brass. Thankfully, this is a little more simple than the FLIR but still as small. For this little project all I needed was 3 sizes of brass tube and 1 size of brass square bar. After looking at the port side shot of the nose in the earlier posted pic I came to the conclusion that part of the camera, (the largest part) was in square so I started with 3mm square brass bar and drilled a small hole in the centre; This hopefully will keep the drill bit central. Next up was to drill to size 1.6mm; Next up was to cut the 1.6mm tube to size and the smaller 0.5mm tube to fit in the rear. Also a very small section of 2mm tube was cut to represent the front lens area so we now had 4 sub sections; Glue together; Now to give the eyes a rest, I am calling it a night. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 Evening all. Another revisit, this time to the open style flotation bottles. If you remember from post#114 the fins of the bombs kept breaking off even though they are fairly substantial from a scale point of view, being particularly thick. A new approach was needed. After a little thought I decided to drill progressively larger holes in the tail unit thus removing some of the stress on the plastic from the grinding bit and by eck...it worked. The next job was no less problematic, to drill 3 small holes in each fin all the while keeping within the fabric of the fin itself, a keen eye and a steady hand where needed and luckily on this occasion I had both; Next was to glue in place the glitter balls half's that I had prepared earlier, once the glue had set a small hole was drilled to receive the pipe that protrudes from the bottom of the bottle unit; As can be seen from the photo above I have also fitted a brass tube in the top of the unit to allow me to mount it under the sponson Both nearly finished, I have just noticed after taking this pic that the tubes from the bottom of the bottle are different lengths so a quick swipe with a file will sort tha; . I have been looking for pics of these so I could build theme but could not find the one angle I wanted until now and wouldn't you know it, I found it on BM. It seems that the bottle is not held by a cross shaped bracket as seen here but by 2 parallel plates with a cross bar at each end and a plate between, as seen here; For now I will stick with what I have made, at 1/72 they will look very much the part. Also shown to good effect in this pic is the way the large beam sponson is mounted via the bracket to the airframe, again, another small detail that I will have to make. Last time I did this I used PE skeleton and shall probably do so again, or brass sheet seeing though I now have a whole sheet of it!. One other little job was the long 3 bladed aerial under the hull. The plastic looked to again a bit thick and soft looking so I removed it and replaced it with brass rod, a look I am more happy with; As ever, thanks for looking. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now