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Scratchaeronautics new homepage and selling method


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It all comes down on some RTFM, and we all know how people are at that... As I said before, a short stipulation of the rules for new customers can do wonders in a time where people start complaining when their package is a bit to long in the postal centres...

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I'm very sad that Artie and Juan have decided to call it a day for the time being. From my point of view, I have bought 3 kits from them, I took a chance with the  first order but I got a Scimitar out of it so my faith in them was justified, so I bought a second Scimitar and a Swift. From my point of view it all worked very well at a 'modeller to modeller' level but from my own experience I know that the material are not cheap (cheap materials = cheap and nasty results) and this is compounded because it has to come from Spain if its not available in the Canary's. Add to that, the guys do this for 'fun' at the weekend, after work and families receive the correct priority and its easy to see how timescales can slip. But I accept that because the patience justifies the result - it's worth it and I know it is! Its therefore sad that individuals - and I'm sure it's only a few - expect 'everything, now'. Well thats not going to happen is it? If Artie and Juan are happy to continue making models for their existing customer base then that might be the best result -and indeed that is what is going to happen until the moulds give up the ghost as I understand it. In the future, when they may have more time, maybe they can dip their feet into the 'hell' that seems to be eBay. As has been said, it doesn't really work very well for those who expect next day service and can't be bothered to read the tends and conditions. It must be very worrying if you are in Artie and Juan's shoes. If it was me I'd say " Do you know what, they can all whistle" Or something less polite!

 

I think the majority are very much on Artie and Juan's side here!

 

Simon

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I never said I wasn't on their side, I only say clear agreements make happy customers. W-models work on the same base, they say it's ready for order, you pay, and a few months later your package arrives.... Must admit, the first time it was a little awkward... later you'll see when it arrives. And I can imagine people that get anxious about that... But to me, it's just some gentlemans agreement, otherwise like with other companies like Azimut, they take the money, now we are 6 months further in time... nothing... also no answers whatsoever... so who says the customer is to blame then... for every example (like alway a few rotten apples spoil it for the others), there's a counter example.. When I pay for goods, I think I'm a rather patient type, but when they feel good enough to take the money, then there's also some kind of obligation that starts to deliver or to explain how the company works... That the resin and molds cost a lot of money I know, and I have nothing against paying upfront... as long as there's an open communication...

Edited by Silenoz
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From my own experiences, I can say that these guys are true enthusiasts and the Scimitar I have (so far) shows that they have exceptional skills too. My one problem, if it is in fact a real or imagined problem, is that communications have been difficult and that might well be at the root of things. It would seem that Facebook is the preferred way to get messages etc. to and fro. I don't have Facebook being 'of a certain age' and very wary of such things. Old fashioned email is my only way and unfortunately that doesn't seem to be very visible at the far end. Once comms were re-established, all was fine. For a long while, frustration and worry about stuff like "will I get my kit", "are the guys receiving my messages" etc. etc. were my constant companions. I was never rude nor did I try to put on any pressure but I can well imagine that many might go down that route.

I do hope that the guys at SA manage to get past all this because I for one will miss these great kits.  

Vimy806X

Edited by viscount806x
spellings
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For me this is a wrong business model. You can not sell something that is not in stock or not made - this is contrary to the rules of the ebay. You can not sell a model that in a few months you declare that you will not produce - we are talking about  1/48 Messerschmitt P.1112 V-1, 1/48 Messerschmitt P.1110 "Ente", 1/72 Junkers ground attack project.

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Sorry @ARTU73, have to disagree. With the translation tools available the trading / business model is completeley understandable....if it's read.

Have you thought the reason for non production could just be insufficent / no information?

Small manufacturer or global no company is going to share with us, the customer.

 

OR

 

Za sŭzhalenie @ ARTU73, tryabva da se sŭglasite. S nalichnite instrumenti za prevod tŭrgovskiyat / biznes model e napŭlno razbiraem .... ako e procheten. Smyatate li, che prichinata za neproizvodstvoto mozhe prosto da bŭde nedostatŭchna / lipsva informatsiya? Malŭk proizvoditel ili globalna kompaniya nyama da spodeli s nas, klienta.

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14 hours ago, ARTU73 said:

 

12 hours ago, PhoenixII said:

Sorry @ARTU73, have to disagree. With the translation tools available the trading / business model is completeley understandable....if it's read.

Completely agree...personal responsibility to read and understand the terms which are laid out in front of you in a clear and transparent manner.

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But then, if I understand correctly, if Scratchaeronautics use eBay platform, they have to conform to eBay's terms.

 

From what I understand, Scratchaeronautics can't issue their own rules and surpass eBay's... and I'm certainly no eBay fan.

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52 minutes ago, Silver Seraph said:

But then, if I understand correctly, if Scratchaeronautics use eBay platform, they have to conform to eBay's terms.

 

From what I understand, Scratchaeronautics can't issue their own rules and surpass eBay's... and I'm certainly no eBay fan.

Exactly. If you can't deliver the goods and deal with any customer  issues after delivery  inside the PayPal timeframe (42 days?) you aren't permitted to get round this by adding your own rules. The  customer can legitimately require a refund and the seller must accept Ebay's consequences. It's  no use bleating about customers not reading listings if you're not conforming to the listings rules yourself.

If you're not prepared to risk the  capital up front on your own products you can't expect customers to be queuing up  to risk their own money whilst you take your own sweet time to provide what's been  paid for.

There are other platforms that give better protection to both buyers and sellers for  business models selling future products, Ebay is not suited to this, and it  ends in tears all round if you try.

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2 hours ago, Silver Seraph said:

But then, if I understand correctly, if Scratchaeronautics use eBay platform, they have to conform to eBay's terms.

 

From what I understand, Scratchaeronautics can't issue their own rules and surpass eBay's... and I'm certainly no eBay fan.

Don't think Juan, Artie or any of the other guys were deliberately trying to circumvent rules. From the little I know, Juan is a serving officer in the Spanish armed forces and has an obligation to serve for a set number of months on the mainland, this along with exercises etc. does tend to take up some time.

As for anyone on here, Artie has supplied his and Juan's email (see caveat, above) or, just drop Artie a P.M.! They are contactable. PLUS, we the collective, were some of the first to get the chance of these kits. Yes, we waited, yes, we received the kit(s), have they been built yet? what do YOU think! What did we do while we waited? we did something else.

My questions are, has every other model trader in the World ceased in business over the last year? Has everybody finished the last kit in their stash?

Before anyone starts a war, the above are rhetorical. Before we can start quoting the law, we have to understand it. Immaterial if the original ad. goes against eBay rules, eBay have an obligation to police their site, with the amount of money they make, not a problem, so who are we to apportion blame? 

Paul

 

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I ordered my Scimitar, cash up front to fund the work, before the masters were made, and before they appeared on ebay. For this I got a discount, and a kit from the first batch. I had little 'customer protection' outside of Paypal and took it on trust. Even the Ts&Cs were in Spanish, and Google Translate gave me the basics of it. I will admit this can be a minefield and the risk is always present of ending up with nothing but a hole in your wallet.

However - nothing ventured, nothing gained, and never put up more than you can afford to lose.

There are other 'reputable :rofl2:' businesses we have seen on ebay and elsewhere who take the money and run, offering products 'in stock' with no intention of delivery. We have even had a few ex members here do that.

Whatever your views on the business model, Artie and Juan have given us kits others would not touch, and have kept their word. If they produce other stuff in the future that I would like, I will not hesitate to order again.

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A very good point, there are probably enough happy BM members who could support Scratch if 20 units is workable! It might allow Juan and Artie to continue - just supplying BM but with a growing portfolio. The question is 'What next ? And How many?'

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1 hour ago, PhoenixII said:

 Artie has supplied his and Juan's email (see caveat, above) or, just drop Artie a P.M.! They are contactable.

 

Well I would refer this to my statement on here last Friday.

I wish the SA crew well in every sense and hope they overcome short term issues and continue successfully but with the best will in the world, comms is certainly a problem area. I won't discuss it any further publically but will happily continue any discussion privately. And I do so hope I get my kits eventually, in their time frame is absolutely fine by me. But I wish they would check emails and PMs a bit more often.

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I spent a full day with Scratchaeronautics (SA) yesterday and a full update on my findings will follow, when I get home and can process and upload photo's.  In the meantime, here is a short synopsis:

The main element of SA are just three of the members of IPMS Canary Islands (although there are others) who happen to be rather good at designing, mastering and producing really good resin kits.  They are not new to the hobby, just that they have concentrated their production to local requirements until recently. There are some sticking points, to which they acknowledge; one possible element could be the unexpected success of the interest from Britmodellers. 

 

 Artie is our lead contact.  He has the enthusiasm and enterprise to bring the expertise and dedication to us Britmodellers.

Pablo owns the hobby shop (Teide Hobby) where SA meet on Saturdays to produce stuff, and does all the design work for the masters; however he does have to stop every time he has a customer etc.  Pablo's ability to produce 3D designs for SA models are very good indeed but the limited access to data/plans/site visits can stall a projected plan.  Google searches are just not good enough for what he needs to produce what we want.  Pablo also produces master templates in 3D print for Juan to make resin masters from.

Juan is the master mould maker and model caster.  I have seen first-hand his ability to produce excellent masters and cast kits.  I have bought a CASA CN-235 and will do a review when I get home.   Juan explained to me that he is a commission officer in the Spanish Army and, as you can imagine, he is committed full time to service requirements.  This also is probably a cause of much of the lack of communications, because he is often out of contact for service reasons.  Another caveat is that Juan is due to deploy on operations later this year (out of Spain).

 

Scratchaeronautics is a good team, with the ability to produce some stunning kits, but they are hamstrung by not having the ability to work full time and in one location all the time (Juan is based in the officers mess at the military base and anyone who has served will know what the restrictions of living in a small room on base can entail).   They also agree that eBay is not the platform for selling their kits and they are looking into approaching this in a different way; as such, they plan to slow/reduce production (apart from those orders already in the pipeline) temporarily and work at identifying a more efficient way of providing their customers with these great kits.  Obviously the first recommendation was to not advertise any pre-orders for unmade kits but to build a stock first, then advertise those available as short run sales.

 

Having spent my day with them, and virtually interrogating the team (sorry boys, I was doing it for your benefit!), I am confident that Scratchaeronautics has many good products and that they will re-emerge with a better method of selling their stuff.  For our part, we will just need to be a little more patient and wait for any announcement of what is ready to be shipped out;  It will be worth the wait!

 

Buena suerte a Scratchaeronautics y le deseamos un próspero futuro.

 

Mike 

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I stand by my earlier statement. Ive dealt with Arturo on a separate  deal outside of Scratchaeronautics. He's a very honorable man and bent over backward to keep his word. As I said i will if the molds are still serviceable, place an order in the future when funds are available.  

    Im not an expert, don't claim to be one. Maybe it would be best if they just had there own personal website. To start they should deal only with a few forums, until there client base grew big enough to protect the name. Then in the future if they ventured back to eBay. It would give them a secure base of clients to work with as well as testimonials from people who have bought and built those kits. Of course thats only my opinion and maybe I'm wrong. 

 

Dennis

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On 5/3/2019 at 12:47 PM, Artie said:

Wich I completely agree. I've never liked to offer kits in preorder status. That gives you lots of problems. I've discussed it with Juan several times, but he thinks in a different way than me and I'm not the one to tell him hiw to manage his bussiness. That said, I find it quite unfair complaining about the kit not arriving just three weeks after you've ordered it, given tge fact you agree the selling terms. If yoo're not  willing to wait the stated deadline, JUST DON'T BUY IT. The result: you're causing issues to ALL those who read and understand what tgey read, and patiently wait. We could sell just ready for shipment kits, but at a higher price and asking you for Shipping costs, wich we don't do. My main concern are the fellow Britmodellers who see their shipments unnecesarily delayed. All those "short minded" ebay customers mean nothing to me and, believe me, are a minimun part of all the others who understand what they read...

Best regards.

Artie

 

I ordered my Swift in September and until today (7 May 19) have held the line. However, they have not answered my messages or emails until today, they are now trying to sort it out

 

Chris

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52 minutes ago, chrismac60 said:

Artie

 

I ordered my Swift in September and until today (7 May 19) have held the line. However, as you have not answered my messages or emails I have had to turn to Paypal for recovery of my payment. A sad day.

 

Chris

It's all about comms isn't it?

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Very odd. I received mine, I got an e-mail from Artie to say it had been posted and a tracking number and I tracked it to the Spanish postal hub at Madrid where it sat for several days due to action by the postal

workers in Spain but a few days later it turned up. Great kit albeit with resin main gear which is to thin - okay if you have a Falcon kit as well with metal gear but that's my only criticism. Very odd that you are having problems but I appreciate that you can only speak as you find.

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12 hours ago, spaddad said:

What is the AISA?

Afternoon @spaddad, Aeronáutica Industrial S.A. a Spanish aircraft manufacturer.

Would guess something like this:- AISA I-115 'Garrapata' that's Tick in English!

 

26102123978_64246cd6a4_b.jpg&key=c5ae141

With thanks to Artie for the use of his photo.

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2 hours ago, chrismac60 said:

Artie

 

I ordered my Swift in September and until today (7 May 19) have held the line. However, they have not answered my messages or emails until today, they are now trying to sort it out

 

Chris

Juan sent me some spares in September, which never did arrive. Probably down to Correos strike. Artie did send me some more, and I did keep in contact via PM over the matter.

I bet Correos Madrid have a bag of mail sitting in a corner forgotten.

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