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Troy Smith

Spitfire XIV low back... images to help for the new Airfix kit

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1 minute ago, Linescriber said:

Just can't seem to post a Sideview of the Chakra Mk 18!!

Hi

You made it!   Welcome to the forum! 

OK,  to post a photo is has to hosted online somewhere, Flickr, photobucket, even Facebook,  then paste in the URL.

 

You ones on ARC can be copied in 

like this

05.jpg

 

I note you used Medium Sea Grey (?) for the serial overpaint and the '96' 

also, on the Chakra subject

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal5/4401-4500/gal4435-Spitfire-Singh/00.shtm

 

02.jpg

 

Quote

The ac that I have modeled was originally an LF IXc clipped wing ML 417 which became HS 543 and was the last T IX delivered. It was taken on Charge by the RAF on 28.4.44 and allotted to 443 RCAF Squadron based at Ford in Jun 42. Coded 21-T it saw action during D Day landings and by late Jun was based at St Croix-Sumer, Normandy . Claimed two FW 190 probables on 13 Jul and two Bf 109s on 19 Jul all over Roune. It later claimed two 109s destroyed on 29 Sep and later passed through hands of 442, 401 and 441 Squadrons. Purchased by Vickers Armstrong on 31.10.46 for conversion to the trainer version, it was delivered to the RIAF on 15.11.48, this aircraft served with the AFS (India ) till 1949 and then moved to Palam. It was then sent to the IAF museum in 1967. It was sold to Senator Norman Gaar of Kansas City in 4.71 and flew after restoration as a single seater in the UK on 10.2.84. Sold/Shipped to US in January 2002 to Freidken Family and is today based at Planes of Fame, Chino , CA .

 

The Brigade models conversion is not meant for the Occidental kit. This is something I learnt at the end of the build.  The amount of elbow grease and putty is simply not worth it, coz in the end I ended up with reduced dihedral and reduced span.  The rear canopy did not fit the width of the rear cockpit and had to be heated and widened and the Brigade models cockpits come without a floor.  Anyway it’s the only game in town and all in all it does provide for the new tail shape and extended fuselage + rear fuselage and canopy that would take you a month of Sundays to scratch build.  The decals are from Model Alliance’s issue in the Spitfire profiles No 8 series by Jon Freeman and came to me via Phil Camp.  There is much argument about the colors of the ‘chakra’.  But Tonal assessment of B&W pics tells us that initial chakras at least on the Spits were all blue rather than the later Blue, Saffron and Green. The fin flash is saffron forward as was the practice till the early sixties.  I used Testors acrylic aluminum overall and pastels to weather.

 

 

HTH

T

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That IAF one with the yellow Chakra markings is very tempting Troy.!

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Heres some side views from my book showing the two versions of chakras. the first done in India and the second interpreted by Vickers in the UK on the refurbished T Mk 9s.

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Here's the picture to go with bottom profile. Chakra colour - who knows?

 

47725761982_d4c3185700_h.jpg

 

 

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On 03/05/2019 at 16:19, Linescriber said:

Heres some side views from my book showing the two versions of chakras. the first done in India and the second interpreted by Vickers in the UK on the refurbished T Mk 9s.

 

43 minutes ago, Ed Russell said:

Chakra colour - who knows?

 

Green and Saffron according to the book.    Note that may years ago the Matchbox Tempest II/VI kit had  two colour Chakras 

koztempa.jpg

they did get the Saffron as brown though.... 

Maybe @Linescriber  has some information on colours specified for the planes ordered or in the Spitfire case,  rebuilt , for the IAF.

hawker applied Chakras before delievery

Quote

HA552.jpg

 

 

Former RAF aircraft PR890, Tempest II HA552 features the short lived Chakra markings. This was a pre-delivery photo taken in UK. The aircraft was ferried from UK to India in October 1948

 

From what i can make out, the above are two colour. 

 

EDIT Apparently not....

https://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/aircraft/past/923-hawker-tempest-ii.html?showall=&start=2

Quote

Several Tempest IIs (as also other fighter types) received the temporary 'Chakra' markings hurriedly painted over the RAF roundels. Hawker also supplied a few aircraft in these markings painted ex factory. All charka painted aircraft had the 'saffron forward' fin flash. The chakra was replaced by the RAF-style roundels around mid 1948. HA 547 (PR 874) was the first of 89 aircraft directly supplied by Hawker in 1948. Art work Tom Cooper ACIG.org

HA547d.jpg

 

PPS Back to Spitfires...

in the linked Tempest section

Quote

One of the peculiar markings to appear on RIAF Tempests was the white wingtip. This required both wingtips to be painted white on both surfaces up to the aileron outer edge. The reason for this scheme is not clear yet. 

 

this also appears on Spitfires 

Quote

SpitfireXIV.jpg

8 Squadron gave up its Spitfire VIIIs with the five bladed prop Spitfire XIVs in 1946. This classic Spitfire Portrait proudly hangs in Gp Capt Philip's living room

Date: 08/14/2008

 

from

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galleries/History/WW2/Philip01/

 

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Dear All,

(Perhaps a kind of hijacking twist to this thread, but yet:)

Is there a way of obtaining the 1/48 Chakra decals with yellow background? They look just lovely, according to the pics they do also have the correct dimensions. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tomas Enerdal said:

Count me in!

me too!

Edited by NPL

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24 minutes ago, Linescriber said:

Just started on a 1:1 Spitfire Mk XVIII to be painted as HS 636 "96" with the Blue on Yellow Chakras

 

 

spacer.png

Now that is an interesting photograph, where is it and any details on the aircraft ?

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

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2 minutes ago, spitfire said:

Now that is an interesting photograph, where is it and any details on the aircraft ?

 

@Linescriber  hopefully can fill in the detail, but I presume it's at the Indian Airforce Museum, being done now,  I'd be interested in the detail of the stripped Hurricane in the foreground, as well as the serial of the Spitfire in the background.

 

@Linescriber, are you involved with the IAF museum restorations as well? 

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Yes it is at the IAF Museum and iam redoing all the livery ground-up in original schemes, Spitfire HS 636 (in the pic), Hurricane Mk I P5202,( some say Z7059) a dismantled Spitfire XVIII TZ219 at the rear of pic with I.A.F. serial HS683. It can reasonably be assumed that at some stage in its IAF service career TZ219 suffered a fairly major ground accident as the fuselage serial HS683 has been over painted with the serial HS674, which was originally TZ397 of the RAF, and the starboard wing is from HS229 /TP370. Lysander Mk II, Tempest II, Ouragon, Mystere, Hunter 56A, MiG 21FL, Su 7 Vampire NF Mk 10, Prentice, Auster Aiglet, Gnat Mk I, Okha kamikaze rocket aircraft as phase I.

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Thank you for that, sounds like you have an amazing time ahead of you.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

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On 4/30/2019 at 4:56 PM, fubar57 said:

Hello Troy. I just went over my Academy build on another site and the kit went together very nicely. To make the RCAF race version a few mods are needed; the bulges on cannon panels need to be removed and the camera ports need faired over. You are correct about the red bits on the decal sheet but they also have the whites bits as well that can't be seen in your photo. These are a bit undersized and touch-ups are required. The looooooong fuselage flash is one piece and in my eye was a tad long so I cut it into three, the first cut being in front of the roundel. From there the decals went smoothly. A shot of the prop decals...

 

009-jpg.202310

 

....and the fuselage flash...

 

006-jpg.202731

 

George

Hi George,

 

Those propblades looks fantastic. And so do the Spitfire as well. What paint did you use for the Spitfire?

 

Cheers / André

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Thank you very much André. Unfortunately, I built this 7 years ago and in the "in progress" build all I found was that it was sprayed with a rattle can

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Posted (edited)

(sorry if this is a slight hijack of the thread, but yet, it is very close)

Dear Linescriber

 

First of all, please let me know if this asking is in any way imprudent, if so just ignore that I asked. (I have been hunting for these details for some time now, almos a rant...)

 

If you have easy access to the Spit XVIII, could you help us with the last details, for modelling purposes?

-Spitfire XVIII has been reported to have had three downward facing identification lamps, as had late XIVe:s. One under each wingtip (red and green I suppose) and one under the rear fuselage (amber). The underwing lamps can clearly be seen on Peter Arnols photo of the IndianAF relics. The under fuselage lamp, however, has proved impossible to confirm. Our lamented Edward Brooks stated that is was situated behind fuselage frame 16. An official diagram shows the two underwing lamps, but no fuselage lamp, however. The underside of the fuselage is normally dicfficult to see in contemporary photos unless in flight and I have not yet found any photos showing the underside of  an unrestored XVIII , not even in your Spitfires in the Sun. The restored ones have had many details removed, gun bulges, lamps, antennas, camera openings, etc.

-The Peter Arnold photos of the wings show the underside of the wing beautifully. The topsides however are not so clear. There are pictures of the restored TP280 that more or less clearly show the panel lines, but it has also been reported as having been reskinned during restoration to flying condition. Can these panel lines be trusted? I'm hoping that you may be able to confirm the over wing panel lines on another XVIII wing.

-The FR.XVIII had camera control boxes in the cockpit. Placement of these can be seen in a diagram. The photos in the official Pilot's notes don't show them however. The restored ones have had many items removed. Do the IAF museum aircraft have any such fittings remaining? Would be nice to be able to detail the cockpit accurately.

 

Tomas Enerdal

Edited by Tomas Enerdal

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On 8/17/2019 at 2:05 PM, Troy Smith said:

I'd be interested in the detail of the stripped Hurricane in the foreground,

 

 

 

Thart'll be the one that was pitched for a  potential swap with LF363 about 10 years ago

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On 8/20/2019 at 10:59 AM, Dave Fleming said:

 

Thart'll be the one that was pitched for a  potential swap with LF363 about 10 years ago

Hmm. Something of a mystery ship, according to Wikipedia: 

"Hurricane displayed as Mk.IIa AP832, and later AB832, though these serials have never been allocated (the former is in a deliberate blank block between Hurricane Mk.IIb's, and the latter is a deliberate blank block between Spitfire serials). The actual Mark of Hurricane is also in question (it is possibly Canadian built Mk.I P5202, but has the armored radiator of a Mk.IV, and the oil deflector ring of a Mk.II or later). The heritage of this aircraft and how it came to be in India is unknown, but it has been on display at the Indian Air Force Museum, Palam, New Delhi since 1975."

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On 8/20/2019 at 3:00 PM, Tomas Enerdal said:

(sorry if this is a slight hijack of the thread, but yet, it is very close)

Dear Linescriber

 

First of all, please let me know if this asking is in any way imprudent, if so just ignore that I asked. (I have been hunting for these details for some time now, almos a rant...)

 

If you have easy access to the Spit XVIII, could you help us with the last details, for modelling purposes?

-Spitfire XVIII has been reported to have had three downward facing identification lamps, as had late XIVe:s. One under each wingtip (red and green I suppose) and one under the rear fuselage (amber). The underwing lamps can clearly be seen on Peter Arnols photo of the IndianAF relics. The under fuselage lamp, however, has proved impossible to confirm. Our lamented Edward Brooks stated that is was situated behind fuselage frame 16. An official diagram shows the two underwing lamps, but no fuselage lamp, however. The underside of the fuselage is normally dicfficult to see in contemporary photos unless in flight and I have not yet found any photos showing the underside of  an unrestored XVIII , not even in your Spitfires in the Sun. The restored ones have had many details removed, gun bulges, lamps, antennas, camera openings, etc.

-The Peter Arnold photos of the wings show the underside of the wing beautifully. The topsides however are not so clear. There are pictures of the restored TP280 that more or less clearly show the panel lines, but it has also been reported as having been reskinned during restoration to flying condition. Can these panel lines be trusted? I'm hoping that you may be able to confirm the over wing panel lines on another XVIII wing.

-The FR.XVIII had camera control boxes in the cockpit. Placement of these can be seen in a diagram. The photos in the official Pilot's notes don't show them however. The restored ones have had many items removed. Do the IAF museum aircraft have any such fittings remaining? Would be nice to be able to detail the cockpit accurately.

 

Tomas Enerdal

So here are the pics of the underbelly signalling lamp just aft of the two F24??vertical cameras, the first looking forward, the second looking aft showing also the tail wheel housing. No idea what the round inspection panel just aft of the lamp is for.  Then the two pics of the port and starboard wing under-surfaces, the the port seems not to have  a lamp or its accouterments.  It must be said the two wings are from different aircraft.

 

 

 

 

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On 8/23/2019 at 9:01 PM, Work In Progress said:

Hmm. Something of a mystery ship, according to Wikipedia: 

"Hurricane displayed as Mk.IIa AP832, and later AB832, though these serials have never been allocated (the former is in a deliberate blank block between Hurricane Mk.IIb's, and the latter is a deliberate blank block between Spitfire serials). The actual Mark of Hurricane is also in question (it is possibly Canadian built Mk.I P5202, but has the armored radiator of a Mk.IV, and the oil deflector ring of a Mk.II or later). The heritage of this aircraft and how it came to be in India is unknown, but it has been on display at the Indian Air Force Museum, Palam, New Delhi since 1975."

Actually the aircraft he flew most in the NWFP was AP932 marked as a IIB in his logbook.  He took it to Imphal with 1 Sqn but was badly damaged by ground fire on 14 Feb 44 over over Banmauk when attacking a Japanese Staff car. He then took to JS403 In which he was the first to site the Japanese attacking force threatening Kohima on 17 Mar 44 on a TacR to Myuthit-Thaongdut.  What was it a Mk IIB with no cannon?/ can i modify the Hurricane below with a Volkes filter and pass it off as a IIB/C??

 

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