RAF Yellow?

[Nachtwulf]

I'm at the point in a build that I am ready to paint the yellow wing leading edge and the prop tips and was wondering if they are to be the same color? Was there a specific yellow for the RAF?

 

[Graham Boak]

Yes.  It was called Yellow, and was a chrome rather than a lemon yellow.

[viscount806x]

3 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Yes.  It was called Yellow, and was a chrome rather than a lemon yellow.

Just out of interest, is that 'Trainer Yellow' or is it a different shade again?

[andyf117]

Content withdrawn - I will NOT be threatened by a moderator, simply because I queried the actions of another...

Edited June 27, 2020 by andyf117

[mick b]

Ducimus Camouflage and Markings,  which is often lauded on here as a reliable reference, states in the book on RAF Mustangs the yellow for leading edge and prop tips was ‘Identification Yellow’ ANA 614 or Insignia yellow which is different to trainer yellow and Humbrol provide as 154.

 

Mick

[fubar57]

I brush paint prop tips and use this...

 

[Geoff Arnold]

Hi Viscount  

There is a difference in the two colours the best golden yellow I have come across is from a company Called RAIL MATCH and is called Warning Panel Yellow and is the same colour match to  BS381c 356  and is the colour spec that was used on all RAF Rescue Helicopters.

 

Geoff Arnold 

World Helicopter SIG  Leader   IPMS 

[Seahawk]

23 hours ago, mick b said:

Ducimus Camouflage and Markings,  which is often lauded on here as a reliable reference, states in the book on RAF Mustangs the yellow for leading edge and prop tips was ‘Identification Yellow’ ANA 614 or Insignia yellow which is different to trainer yellow and Humbrol provide as 154.

 

Mick

Slightly misleading.  True, the table on the back page gives specified paint shades for Mustang Is, IIs, IIIs and IIIAs for the RAF but NB the headers for the table's columns: the US colours specified in column 2 are "American substitute specified" ie colours the UK had agreed were acceptable substitutes for the MAP (ie UK) shades listed in column 1, not paints necessarily matching those shades.  As the notes to the table make clear, some were good matches (eg US Olive Drab 42 for MAP Dark Green), others spectacularly were not (eg Sea Grey 603 for Ocean Grey - 603 being unacceptably dark and actually a match for Extra Dark Sea Grey). So while Identification Yellow ANA 614 (and also apparently Dupont 71-002) was used on many, though not all (Grumman excepted), US aircraft used by the RAF, it should not be inferred that it was the same shade as MAP Yellow used on UK-built aircraft.

 

"Yellow" is the name the RAF Museum's British Aviation Colours gives for the MAP shade, not Trainer Yellow which I imagine was spotter or modeller shorthand, just as it's Grey Green, not Cockpit Grey Green, and Red/Blue not Roundel Red/Blue.  There is only that one Yellow in the RAF Museum table so, to answer OP's point, both prop tips and leading edge stripes would in principle be the same colour, allowing for the vagaries of application, weathering, wear, etc.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Seahawk

[andyf117]

Content withdrawn - I will NOT be threatened by a moderator, simply because I queried the actions of another...

Edited June 27, 2020 by andyf117

[gingerbob]

12 hours ago, Seahawk said:

There is only that one Yellow in the RAF Museum table so, to answer OP's point, both prop tips and leading edge stripes would in principle be the same colour, allowing for the vagaries of application, weathering, wear, etc.

Except if you ARE talking about a Mustang I, for example, the prop tips would have been painted in the US factory, whereas the leading edges were probably part of a repaint in the UK!  Hair-splitting, no doubt, but...

[Nachtwulf]

2 hours ago, gingerbob said:

Except if you ARE talking about a Mustang I, for example, the prop tips would have been painted in the US factory, whereas the leading edges were probably part of a repaint in the UK!  Hair-splitting, no doubt, but...

Good point. I could have helped out by stating that my original question is in reference to a Tempest Mk. V.

[andyf117]

Content withdrawn - I will NOT be threatened by a moderator, simply because I queried the actions of another...

Edited June 27, 2020 by andyf117

[mick b]

19 hours ago, Seahawk said:

Slightly misleading.  True, the table on the back page gives specified paint shades for Mustang Is, IIs, IIIs and IIIAs for the RAF but the US colours specified are "American substitute specified" ie colours the UK had agreed were acceptable substitutes for MAP (ie UK) shades, not paints necessarily matching those shades.  As the notes to the table make clear, some were good matches (eg US Olive Drab 42 for MAP Dark Green), others spectacularly were not (eg Sea Grey 603 for Ocean Grey - 603 being unacceptably dark and actually a match for Extra Dark Sea Grey). So while Identification Yellow ANA 614 (and also apparently Dupont 71-002) was used on many, though not all (Grumman excepted), US aircraft used by the RAF, it should not be inferred that it was the same shade as MAP Yellow used on UK-built aircraft.

 

BTW "Yellow" is the name the RAF Museum's British Aviation Colours gives for the MAP shade, not Trainer Yellow which I imagine was spotter or modeller shorthand, just as it's Grey Green, not Cockpit Grey Green, and Red/Blue not Roundel Red/Blue.  There is only that one Yellow in the RAF Museum table so, to answer OP's point, both prop tips and leading edge stripes would in principle be the same colour, allowing for the vagaries of application, weathering, wear, etc.

The page I was referring to was for the the P51D/ Mark IV Mustangs which I assume the Brits were painting by then but you’re probably correct, I was only referring to what Ducimus had written and not purporting to being an expert?

 

Mick

Edited April 28, 2019 by mick b

[viscount806x]

On 4/27/2019 at 8:21 PM, Geoff Arnold said:

Hi Viscount  

There is a difference in the two colours the best golden yellow I have come across is from a company Called RAIL MATCH and is called Warning Panel Yellow and is the same colour match to  BS381c 356  and is the colour spec that was used on all RAF Rescue Helicopters.

 

Geoff Arnold 

World Helicopter SIG  Leader   IPMS 

Thanks Geoff, a good tip there. I think, reading this thread, that 'Trainer/Golden Yellow' is not the colour used on props/L/edges. Apparently this was/is 'Ident Yellow'. I suppose that this is also the yellow used in roundel outer rings too. Unless someone knows differently.    

[Graham Boak]

As said above, in WW2 there was only one colour and the name of the colour was "Yellow".   At this time there was no Ident. Yellow nor Trainer Yellow nor Golden Yellow.

 

Whatever colour US-supplied aircraft came with was up to them, but initially would have been to UK orders and hence an approved match.

[Nachtwulf]

Mission accomplished....

 

[Tony Whittingham]

Hi All,

One further question, related to prop blade tips. I’m told the RAF specified 4” yellow blade tips. Did the USN, and USAAF use the same standard, or some other measures. As far as I know the Army Air Force didn’t use prop warning stripes prewar.

 

TW

[Nachtwulf]

50 minutes ago, Tony Whittingham said:

Hi All,

One further question, related to prop blade tips. I’m told the RAF specified 4” yellow blade tips. Did the USN, and USAAF use the same standard, or some other measures. As far as I know the Army Air Force didn’t use prop warning stripes prewar.

 

TW

Everything I've read says it is the same standard. 4" front and back. Started some time during the war.

[spitfire]

Here is a discussion on American prop tips.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/hyperscale/what-was-the-length-of-yellow-tips-on-usaaf-props-t504307.html

 

Cheers

 

Dennis