Alexen/Ustar scraping tools

[Stalker6Recon]

OK guy, I must consult with the masters at the top of the mountain on this one. Those of you who know me, are aware that I am in purgatory at the moment, after making a totally boneheaded mistake, rookie style, so I am waiting on money to buy replacement kits.

 

This leaves a guy with a LOT of spare time, if I am not on here following one of many WIP (finally figured that out, I just though you guys couldn't spell and I didn't want to say anything, apple cart style), or asking one of a million questions kid style, (what is that? Why do you do that? What color is gray? Can I play with superglue?) or reminiscent about Mk19's on ARC, I spend the rest of that time looking over every bit of information on modeling as humanly possible. I have three questions total.

 

First, is it modelling or modeling?

Second, modeler or modeler? I keep seeing it both ways, and I was certain in both cases, the double L was correct, now I am not so sure.

 

Now the big one. I spoke to a guy from another one of the half dozen sites that I belong too or just use frequently. He is also a mountain top masters and when I asked if he only had ten tools he could use for the rest of his life, what would they be. (by the way, that will probably be my next annoy everyone question).

 

Anyway, on his list he recommended seam scrapers by Alexen, they come in many different shapes and forms for every conceivable angle or curve, and he claimed that used right, they could literally decrease the amount of filling by a factor of better than 50 percent. So I was off on my quest, this intrigued me most of all. I have found dozens of video reviews and tutorials about the products, and stumbled upon the Ustar brand as well.

 

So my question is this. How many of you have tried or actually use these tools on a regular basis? Do you find them to be as useful as so many reviewers and tutorials claim?

 

I am just curious to see if the secret weapon is really a secret, and what the mountain top masters think. While I know that most of you can probably fill gaps in your sleep, in the tutorials, it looks like much faster, easier method, where only Mr Surface need be applied if any filler at all. Am I being tricked?

 

What says you, and as always, thanks in advance!

 

Anthony

[TheRealMrEd]

I suppose it all depends upon how you go about building models.  I have only scraped maybe 10-12 seams in 65 years of modeling.  I find that with careful use of a  very hot liquid cement ( I use Weld-On #3), I can glue the seams together, run the glue along the seam by capillary action and pulling the joint together and apart slightly a few times, I can seal almost all seams, so that they require only minor sanding. If a fill is needed, stretched sprue  applied with liquid glue, and smoothed on with a nut pick, crochet needle, spoon or other rounded steel tool, there is also little filler needed.  After that, a sanding twig or other hard-backed sanding device is used -- almost never just sanding sheets without backing, as they tend to gouge the plastic. 

 

If you use a lot of CA or tube glues and the seam isn't done properly at assembly, then I can see where scrapers might be useful.  Even then, I prefer shaped sanding grips and sheet sandpaper, such as these:  sanding grips

 

Ed

[Stalker6Recon]

Those look really nice, but at a 10er each one, I would have to wait for the new year to get a few sizes to be useful, and they come in a variety of shapes as well. I like how you can do the inside of a canopy half with the rounded end, the do the outside via the scalloped or hollowed out end, probably one size larger though, to account for the outside diameter being a bit larger than the inside.

 

Also, glad that you confirmed my idea will actually work. I was using that as just a suggestion for the brush painted frame, since the loaded brush will almost certainly cause paint to be pulled under tape. With the glue, or other liquid mask, there is no gap for paint to run into, maybe his best choice.

 

I will say that I am quite shocked and impressed to see so many people that are able to brush paint entire kits, if they had not mentioned  this, I would never have known. Probably the skill of the painter combined with high quality brushes allows for an even coat of paint with no brush lines. Back in my previous modeling life, all I had were plastic testors brushes, I could not paint a wheel without leaving brush marks all over the place. I also did use brushes to try to touch the tiny details in the cockpit, but always has serious problems with the surface tention, causing a giant blob of paint to break off and destroy the part I was painting. Talk about frustrating days.

 

Of course I never learned what was wrong back then, only from reading so much information here/elsewhere did I figure out why my previous attempts in the 80's were doomed. Now there is acrylics, flow improver and paint retarder, never even heard of those until now.

 

OK, I will let you get back to it, thanks for the details, as always,

 

Anthony

[3DStewart]

The only scraper I have ever used is a knife blade.

 

The difference in spellings you mention is between British and American English.

 

This thread is in the wrong section as it's not about modelling modern aircraft. I think there is a separate section for tools and techniques.

[Stalker6Recon]

15 minutes ago, 3DStewart said:

This thread is in the wrong section

I was trying to figure that out, as it should be under tools/tricks, but I could not find that section, anyway, it kept putting me into smaller and smaller sub-menues, where this applies to me very type of plastic modelling. Hope you can place it correctly, I am still learning my way around.

 

Anyway, as for using the edge of a blade, the advice given explained the pitfalls of using the blade method, as it is not contoured to the shape of the kit, you could leave a flat spot. I have not built any models yet, so all my information is theory at this time. I watched a few videos, especially regarding barrels and drop tanks, how the right size could clean up the seam lines to a perfectly smooth/ready to paint surface, no sanding required. As such, it also eliminates the loss of surface detail. The results on camera, looked impressive. Those using the tools also used only blade edges before are were "hesitant" to even buy the tools as a "why bother, my blade does fine" attitude. Supposedly, only after they tried the tools, did they understand why these were indeed superior than the blade method.

 

I understand the fear change position, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Logical. But if these tools are indeed what they claim, I want everyone to at least know about them, which is why I made this post, along with hoping for feedback from those who have already used the tools, maybe to shed light on the fantasy and reality aspect with regards to their capabilities.

 

Thanks for chiming in, hope you are able to relocate the thread into proper position,

 

Anthony

[3DStewart]

You assume the reviews are genuine. Since this is the internet everything has to be regarded as potentially false, including my advice!

 

In my experience cleaning up seam lines is easy whatever technique you use, if the parts neatly match. If they don't you get a step, which is going to be a problem to blend out and filler and files are needed.

 

The tools you've shown look to me like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.  I suspect you think the same, otherwise you would have gone and bought them.

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by 3DStewart

[3DStewart]

The idea that a straight blade edge can only give a flat surface is nonsense. You simple do multiple light passes with the blade edge at different angles.

 

Or get a blade with a curved edge?

 

One other thing: you asked for the advice of the masters on the mountain top, and they said don't buy, you don't need them. So, why are you doubting their advice?

 

My advice is to start building some models yourself. You will develop your own style and discover what works best for you. Seam scrapers are unnecessary at the start of this great hobby.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by 3DStewart

[Jonny]

1 hour ago, Stalker6Recon said:

I was trying to figure that out, as it should be under tools/tricks, but I could not find that section, anyway, it kept putting me into smaller and smaller sub-menues, where this applies to me very type of plastic modelling. Hope you can place it correctly, I am still learning my way around.

 

Anthony,

 

3DStewart kindly pointed out that your thread is in the wrong section. You said you couldn’t find the right section.

 

I think it’s > Modelling | Tools & Tips | Other Tools < .  

 

I tend to to agree with 3DStewart ...  these scrapers are (almost) a solution to a problem that doesn’t really exist.  I assume from your “10er each one” you mean they cost around 10USD each time which IS expensive. I once read a review about a seam scraper - much less sophisticated than those you illustrated -  bought the thing, and frankly found it no better than what I’d been using.  An easier - and cheaper  - solution is to (a) take care aligning parts and (b) use something like a FlexiFile or indeed a blade to remove a seam.  

 

Hope this helps,

 

Jonny

[Stalker6Recon]

2 minutes ago, Jonny said:

take care aligning parts

Of course it helps, everything does, so thank you. I agree, one thing I have learned already is to dry fit repeatedly, try to find the solution before committing to glue. I have already bought one scrapper which I found locally, and dirt cheap so no real investment if it turns out to be a dud, still waiting for it to arrive. I bought it along with their version of PE bending tool. Based on the prices, I think they are Philippines "class A" local and not the real McCoy. I am particularly excited about the bending tool as I bought some PE ejection seats. I have never used PE before, my last kit was in the 80's,when the seats arrived a couple years ago, my heart sunk. They are more difficult than advanced origami, and back then, I had not clue what tools you needed to bend them into shape. This tool is only the strange shape ruler type, no clamps to hold the part down, which scares me a bit, but I have lots of tools to use, I can always drill a few holes in the tools and make my own base to attach it too, save me a fortune compared to the tools from "the small shop".

 

Anyway, since my thread is only getting luke warm feedback, I will not buy another version until the first one I bought is proven itself. Thanks for the feedback!

 

Anthony

 

PS. I had forgotten that the tools and tricks section was at the very bottom, after all the other groups for building styles, should have been more careful, next time, I will remember where to put my question.

[Stalker6Recon]

3 hours ago, 3DStewart said:

regarded as potentially false, including my advice! 

Hmmmmmm.....color me perplexed!

 

3 hours ago, 3DStewart said:

why are you doubting their advice?

  

Don't get me wrong, I am not doubting them, just wondered what, of any, experience they have with such tools. When I did fiber optic work, I had to do the old school terminations. This meant using "break out" kits, and taking bare fiber, gluing the termination on before cutting the end of the glass. Then having to literally polish down the cut glass until it was a perfect black hole, and we are talking about 62.5micron fiber, tiny tiny stuff. Anyway, my point is basically this. We all have a tendency to, for lack of a better term, get stuck in our ways. It may be absolutely perfect and therefore change is not required, been there, done that.

 

I have no idea whether the tools are good or bad, but I am a bit confused because the source is a trusted one. By doing this post, I accomplish two things. First, and the main point, is hopefully finding positive or negative views from the masters that have actually tried these tools, and may or may not have them in their arsenal. The second point, if the masters have not tried such tools, and maybe their skills are so high, there never will be a need for such rudimentary things on their bench. But if they too have run afoul of poorly engineered wings or fuselage that needs correction, maybe they would look into these tools and buy them for trials. If they indeed work as described, they may "turn" the masters into believers and include them in their list of "must have" tools for the job.

 

Right now, there doesn't seem to be any consensus regarding whether these specific tools work because either they are too new, or most people have never bothered to try them since they are already happy with their methods of seam cleaning. I don't really know what the answer is, since I am new here and still learning everyday, it will take a lifetime to gather and put into practice all the skills I have seen from the masters.

 

Basically, not every question that I put out there, is one I require a definitive answer for, more of a "put fist to chin, get you thinking" type of question. This is partly that kind of question, I had hoped for feedback regarding this brand of tool, but any/all feedback is ultimately useful, not just for me, but everyone that reads it. I consider that as well, getting answers to questions that others may be unwilling to ask, for fear of backlash, but I can take it. I also have the fingers a 35 year old, chain smoking stenographer with lipstick on her teeth and cranky attitude. Basically I type faster and my brain moves even faster.

 

In the end, I did find the cheaper version locally and decided to give one a try for less than 4 dollars I think. Maybe it will work, especially on the pin marks that my collection of Kitty Hawk models seem to have, and maybe it won't. Just glad I did not commit to a set of any kind.

 

So I hope that clears up my post, and the "doubt" that is perceived. I do know the first rule of asking advice on the forums, took me awhile to get it, but this is rule number one. Ask any questions regarding tools/methods, get one hundred different answers.

 

 

Thanks for everyone's input, I hope this helps many people beyond just myself. When I do try the one tool I ordered, I will let you guys know my initial thoughts on it.

 

Anthony

[lasermonkey]

I bought a set of three Ustar seam scrapers for something like £11 posted. I always seem (sorry!) to have trouble with seams, so I thought it worth the punt.

So far, I have found them to be very useful. Certainly, the smaller radius ones are great for items such as undercarriage legs, but I found myself wanting an almost infinite range of radii to work with! I also found some of the larger radii useful for fuselage seams.

 

@Stalker6Recon I also used to polish optical fibre assemblies in my last job as a laser engineer. Not many people had the knack, so I ended up doing all of them. I seem to remember going down to 0.3 micron lapping film. I much preferred the 3M stuff, as it was more resilient and less likely to scuff. 

 

Cheers,

Mark.

 

[Stalker6Recon]

2 minutes ago, lasermonkey said:

micron lapping film.

When I think back to those days, and I had literally THOUSANDS of the micro sanding squares, how much they would help with detail work in our hobby, I regret letting them eventually hit the trashcan. Yes, polishing took a special kind of OCD type, perfect for model makers! I used to have my scope and laser test gear too, but for some reason, after the military and all the time that had passed, I just figured it was more "junk" to drag around with me, so it all went in the bin.....

 

Glad to hear that someone has found the tools useful, I only have the one, time will tell if it works for me as well, but we are similar types, so the odds are looking up!

 

Oh, one more nice treat that I still carry around from my fiber days, I am sure you suffer as well. Back when I did my cleave and popped off the inch or so of bare fiber, I would try and stick it to some tape that I turned inside out. As you know, they have similar properties of PE and invariably some would just jump out of my fingers, finding their way onto the seat. After a bathroom break or cigarette, I would come back to my station and sit down on a nice, sharp upturned piece of fiber, which would then work its way right into my............ You know where! At this point, I still feel like half my azz is made or glass!

 

Good times, better memories!

 

Anthony

[Julien]

This belongs in tools & tips NOT Modern Aircraft.

 

Please post in the correct section.

 

Julien