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Simon382

Nose art being censored!

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Apologies if this is i the wrong section, please feel free to move it.

 

My son and I have recently visited the RAF Museum in Hendon after its recent make over and was rather impressed. Seeing the Bucc in close up again after many years (worked with them at RAF Abingdon) was very impressive. Looking at it just made me think that something wasn't quite right.

 

The airframe in question is XW547 still marked up as 'Guiness Girl' I'd taken a few pics and checked when I got home. The powers that be have painted a veil over the young ladies chest!?! 

 

I could be wrong but if a museum attepmts to change history to spare a few blushes then what's next???????

 

Rant over.........for now

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It might not be the Museum. I remember seeing a Herc’s nose art that had come back from the Gulf and it was obvious that the female (she was no lady) depicted had had underware painted on as an afterthought - the detail visible underneath the later coat of paint being very anotomically correct. I can imagine that the Squadron was OK with it but that senior officers would not have been especially if the aircraft was operating from Saudi bases, hence the cover up.

That said, as the RAFM is run by a woman the additional artwork could be the museum’s.

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It has been censored for many years. Here it is after the war but before the museum. 

guiness_girl_11.jpg

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Reminds me of the time here in San Antonio when Dibbles Hobbies had their regular summer invitational exhibits; one of our better and more colorful modelers built  the Matchbox PB4Y-2 Privateer as "Little Feather," which featured a very comely Indian maid with a feather strategically placed over her nether parts; the hobby shop owner's wife, a very sweet but prim and proper lady, made him turn it around in the display window so the offending nose art was on the opposite side. I am of the opinion that the markings on that very famous Buc should not have been altered; besides, you see far worse on the magazine stands and on TV these days! It will be interesting to see which Gulf War Buc Airfix does when they release their new-tool kit!

Mike

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1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

Reminds me of the time here in San Antonio when Dibbles Hobbies had their regular summer invitational exhibits; one of our better and more colorful modelers built  the Matchbox PB4Y-2 Privateer as "Little Feather," which featured a very comely Indian maid with a feather strategically placed over her nether parts; the hobby shop owner's wife, a very sweet but prim and proper lady, made him turn it around in the display window so the offending nose art was on the opposite side.

I remember another controversial Dibbles window display: a B-24 (I think) painted as "Spring Planting in the Ozarks," a very lewd illustration of Snuffy Smith being used as a plow by his wife Loweezy. I'll leave it up to the imagination as to what was the "blade" of the plow.

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Posted (edited)

Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now. A famous quote, which kinda sums the whole situation up...

 

"They train young men to drop fire on people from the sky, but they won't let them write "fluff" on their aircraft, 'cos its obscene". 

 

(Use your imagination as to what fluff might have been in the film).

 

Chris.  

 

 

Edited by spruecutter96
Correcting a typo.

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19 minutes ago, Space Ranger said:

I remember another controversial Dibbles window display: a B-24 (I think) painted as "Spring Planting in the Ozarks," a very lewd illustration of Snuffy Smith being used as a plow by his wife Loweezy. I'll leave it up to the imagination as to what was the "blade" of the plow.

Michael,

 

I'm pretty sure I know who built that one, but I never got to see it. Back in the sixties and seventies, if you hung around Dibbles long enough on any given Saturday, you would meet pretty much every serious aircraft modeler in SA. They would also open up any new kit box so you could judge whether or not it was worth getting, and some of us did 'how-to' clinics in the back room for anybody who was interested. One of the few real old-time hobby shops left in town....sure do  miss the old days! (But I guess you can always hang out at the Squadron/MMD headquarters, you lucky dawg!)

Mike

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I was at Dibbles quite a bit on Saturdays during the '60s and '70s, even though I lived in Austin. We must have run into each other occasionally, although memory is fuzzy. You wouldn't be Mike Salyers, would you?

 

I don't hang out at Squadron/MMD. I was editor for Squadron Signal Publications from 2005 to 2007, when a new "senior" editor (who knew next to nothing about the subjects of our books) fired me.

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On ‎4‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 3:33 PM, Aeronut said:

That said, as the RAFM is run by a woman the additional artwork could be the museum’s.

 

Wow, just wow!!!!!!! and what century have you arrived from? do you think she's good at hoovering the museum too and making the tea?

 

I think you'll find the museum is run by a leadership team composed of people from both sexes and equally experienced irrespective of sex.

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On 25/04/2019 at 19:39, spruecutter96 said:

fluff

Lint? :shrug:

 

On 25/04/2019 at 15:33, Aeronut said:

That said, as the RAFM is run by a woman the additional artwork could be the museum’s.

Let's not get all accusatory or misogynist-sounding eh? :fraidnot:

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1 hour ago, Agent K said:

 

 and equally inexperienced irrespective of sex.

Having recently visited the museum for the first time since its revamp, I've fixed that for you 😉

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Don't think it's gender that matters, the proviso should be are they fit for purpose?

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A small quote from my grandfather’s wartime exploits!

 

“All the crew were sorry that we had been told to remove the painting of the naked lady on the side of the Lanc., but apparently this offended the W.A.A.F’s as we taxied past Flying Control, as a bomb was shown as coming from a very strategic place!”

:D

 

Mart

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20 hours ago, LotusArenco said:

A small quote from my grandfather’s wartime exploits!

 

“All the crew were sorry that we had been told to remove the painting of the naked lady on the side of the Lanc., but apparently this offended the W.A.A.F’s as we taxied past Flying Control, as a bomb was shown as coming from a very strategic place!”

:D

 

Mart

Was the strategic place a major road or railway network? I may not have fully understood the "nuance" of this posting....

 

Chris. 

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I personally doubt that this is a 'sexist' thing at all...  If the Buccaneer had been adorned with something like the 'Buster Gonad' artwork it might have been equally censored, if not more so.  You have to consider the feelings of the visiting public, especially if it might risk an unfavourable TripAdvisor review.

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Last night I explained the controversy over dinner to the ladies present without expressing my own views in any way. I asked what they thought. The response was universal and spontaneous.  It’s historical and in context to be left alone. 

I am afraid these days there are waay too many folk with their personal agendas that they want to press on others and do so vigorously in full on self righteous mode. 

Sometimes I feel I was born in the wrong era. 

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On 4/25/2019 at 1:47 PM, Space Ranger said:

I was at Dibbles quite a bit on Saturdays during the '60s and '70s, even though I lived in Austin. We must have run into each other occasionally, although memory is fuzzy. You wouldn't be Mike Salyers, would you?

 

I don't hang out at Squadron/MMD. I was editor for Squadron Signal Publications from 2005 to 2007, when a new "senior" editor (who knew next to nothing about the subjects of our books) fired me.

Nope- Mike Salyers was one of the Dibbles employees. Mr. and Mrs. Johnson were the original owners, Jeff manages the shop now. I was just there last Wednesday, and they are hanging in there, but just barely. I really enjoyed competing against you Austin guys back in the 70-80's and seeing them on the TX contest circut. Sure do miss the old Aquafest airshows and contests! (Milton B, Bob B., Tom E, Tim K should remember me.)

 

I hear you regarding Sq/Signal- they have really gone downhill and have lost sight of what made them a very good modelers reference publisher- my biased opinion, I fear.

Mike D.

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, JohnT said:

Last night I explained the controversy over dinner to the ladies present without expressing my own views in any way. I asked what they thought. The response was universal and spontaneous.  It’s historical and in context to be left alone. 

I am afraid these days there are waay too many folk with their personal agendas that they want to press on others and do so vigorously in full on self righteous mode. 

Sometimes I feel I was born in the wrong era. 

 

It's not really a matter of "these days", there's a long history of censorship on nose arts, probably just one day shorter than the history of nose arts themselves. Nose arts were usually loved by the crews but not always by the higher authorities, some were very simpathetic,, so much that commanding officers sometimes even commissioned artists to paint all aircraft in the unit, others weren't and imposed some sort of censorship. Situations like the one witnessed by @LotusArenco grandfather were not uncommon for one reason or the other.

 

Wandering a bit OT, I personally consider the history of nose arts really fascinating as it's something that goes beyond aviation and "arts" but also tells a lot about the costumes and views of the various eras when such art was applied. It's surprising to see how, with some exceptions, the most overtly sexual nose arts were painted in an era when the display of nudity was generally seen as degenerate. In contrast, nose arts in the most recent conflicts have shown very little sexual content (with the exception of RAF Granby's aircraft), all at a time when nudity is pretty much everywhere. Really, the reaction of a teen to that Buccaneer original nose art would have been something like "is that all? There's much better stuff on the web...".

Of course there are "technical" reasons why we'll never again see something like the nose arts displayed by US bombers in WW2 and Korea (that were IMHO the pinnacle of nose arts), but there's also been a huge change in culture that has led crews to favour certain subjects instead of others

Edited by Giorgio N

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