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Starfighter

1/16 Trumpeter Panther Ausf. G question

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Posted (edited)

Hi guys,

I'm about to start the build of the above model, and I have a question for anyone who has built this or any of the other Trumpeter tanks in this scale, which is : Is it possible to build the kit with the top of the hull removable to display the excellent internal detail ? there is no options shown on the instructions, and it would seem to be a bit odd that they ask you to build the full kit, but then fit the top of the hull on, which would hide most of the internal detail.

Advice from anyone who has built one of these large scale models would be gratefully received.  :cheers:

Edited by Starfighter
missing words

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Hi, Starfighter. 

 

That is one very big, very detailed kit you have there. I would love to own my own copy one day (possibly not in this lifetime, though!).

 

All I would say to you about having a viewable interior is dry-fit the upper hull section and use the instructions to work out if removing it will be viable or not. Any part that has to be secured to the lower and upper hulls is going to throw a spanner in the works, but - hopefully - there will be a way to get around this. If you can get hold of some large, flexible "poly-caps" (like the ones favoured by Tamiya) to use on any alignment points, it might help you. Can these be bought on E-Bay?

 

Good luck with your build.

 

Chris. 

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2 hours ago, spruecutter96 said:

Hi, Starfighter. 

 

That is one very big, very detailed kit you have there. I would love to own my own copy one day (possibly not in this lifetime, though!).

 

All I would say to you about having a viewable interior is dry-fit the upper hull section and use the instructions to work out if removing it will be viable or not. Any part that has to be secured to the lower and upper hulls is going to throw a spanner in the works, but - hopefully - there will be a way to get around this. If you can get hold of some large, flexible "poly-caps" (like the ones favoured by Tamiya) to use on any alignment points, it might help you. Can these be bought on E-Bay?

 

Good luck with your build.

 

Chris. 

I've had a quick dry fit of the major parts, and it looks like I should be able to leave the top in order to display the interior. I think the weight of the turret with the metal barrel should be heavy enough to stop it falling off ( I hope ! )

By the way, I bought my tank from e bay, as a shop in Germany were selling them for about £175, which was a bargain I couldn't resist !  :cheers:

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£175 sounds like a great price. At a model show the other day, I saw traders asking £240 - £250. I think they were taking advantage of the "Oh, look, it's brand new!" effect. When I win the lotto, I might have to buy me a few of these kits....

 

Chris.  

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14 hours ago, spruecutter96 said:

£175 sounds like a great price. At a model show the other day, I saw traders asking £240 - £250. I think they were taking advantage of the "Oh, look, it's brand new!" effect. When I win the lotto, I might have to buy me a few of these kits....

 

Chris.  

With 2300 parts, it's a bargain, and will keep me busy for quite a while !  😄

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I too have this kit and I'm looking forward to building it. To your point though, I recently completed Trumpeter's 1/16 King Tiger, what I did, is I left the upper hull dry fitted so that I can slide the upper hull on/off whenever I please. It looks very nice, aside from some separation from the upper and lower, but that's expected. It looks like the same concept can be applied to the Panther, but I was planning on spicing it up a bit and do something else. Not sure yet. 

 

Take care,

Mark

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No problem Starfighter. I have built one and am about 3/4 through the second and the upper hull comes right off for display.

I didn't use the metal barrel on the second one though as it's so heavy it lifts the rear of the turret up and that doesn't look right,

not to mention I had to glue the barrel pivots solid as it just flops down and looks like a knocked-out tank. The plastic barrel

needs a little work on the seam but it looks fine and it's lots lighter.

 

On both models I had to add a piece of Evergreen .030 x .080 flat strip across the very rear of the upper hull to make it match up to the rear plate.

I don't know if it was me (twice) but there was a gap at the rear where the upper hull met the rear plate if the seam was closed at the front, on the 

glacis. The strip plastic fixed that and it's not noticeable.

 

Good luck as it's lots and lots of work, especially the track guide horns and the 82 odd shells.

 

Lloyd

 

 

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58 minutes ago, BlackMax12 said:

No problem Starfighter. I have built one and am about 3/4 through the second and the upper hull comes right off for display.

I didn't use the metal barrel on the second one though as it's so heavy it lifts the rear of the turret up and that doesn't look right,

not to mention I had to glue the barrel pivots solid as it just flops down and looks like a knocked-out tank. The plastic barrel

needs a little work on the seam but it looks fine and it's lots lighter.

 

On both models I had to add a piece of Evergreen .030 x .080 flat strip across the very rear of the upper hull to make it match up to the rear plate.

I don't know if it was me (twice) but there was a gap at the rear where the upper hull met the rear plate if the seam was closed at the front, on the 

glacis. The strip plastic fixed that and it's not noticeable.

 

Good luck as it's lots and lots of work, especially the track guide horns and the 82 odd shells.

 

Lloyd

 

 

Thanks for the info on the rear hull fit . . . I'll keep an eye on it. I've been constructing the torsion bars, and found the ends of them needed to be sanded and adjusted to fit in parts W5 and W 7 in order to get a flush fit, which helps eliminate any slight bowing of the bars.

This may, of course be down to me, as Trumpeter kits usually go together OK.. Any tips on fitting the torsion bars and frame to the hull would be much appreciated, as it looks like it might be a bit problematic lining up all the ends with their locations at the same time. I'm also going to use the plastic barrel . . . As you say, I think the metal one will be too heavy, and cleaning up barrel seams is no great problem .   

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Posted (edited)

Hi

 

I didn't have any problems with the torsion bars other than to make sure the axles are loose enough in the frame so when

the axles are installed they can move to be a working suspension. I didn't spend enough time on the first Panther so I

ended up gluing all of the axles solid as most wouldn't move. On the second I sanded until I had a loose fit and even ran a reamer

through the holes on the frame so the axles would swivel and the suspension now works. Why have indy track links that

work if the suspension is solid?

The tracks are handed so the pins go in from the inside on each side of the tank. Don't know of any other German AFV

that had handed tracks but there probably was some.

 

Take care,

 

Lloyd

 

 

Edited by BlackMax12

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On 5/9/2019 at 3:11 PM, BlackMax12 said:

Hi

 

I didn't have any problems with the torsion bars other than to make sure the axles are loose enough in the frame so when

the axles are installed they can move to be a working suspension. I didn't spend enough time on the first Panther so I

ended up gluing all of the axles solid as most wouldn't move. On the second I sanded until I had a loose fit and even ran a reamer

through the holes on the frame so the axles would swivel and the suspension now works. Why have indy track links that

work if the suspension is solid?

The tracks are handed so the pins go in from the inside on each side of the tank. Don't know of any other German AFV

that had handed tracks but the probably was some.

 

Take care,

 

Lloyd

 

 

I've been reaming out the locations for the axles, etc. today, which was fun , but I'm not bothered about working suspension, but I might invest in a set of metal tracks, which would save having to fit all those guide horns ( Arrgh ! ). One last question . . . What should the colour of the engine bay roof and hatch interiors be ? I know most of the other colours, but there's no info on the instructions, which is pretty poor of Trumpeter since it's a superb, complex kit, but hardly any colour call outs. :cheers:

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Posted (edited)

 

Starfighter

 

I painted the engine bay roof and the inside of the main hatch over the engine in plain old red primer. My mix is

Tamiya Flat Red with a little bit of NATO Black added to my preference. On some models it's redder and others it's darker.

The inside of my 1/16 Jagdtiger is a little too red and bright for my taste but too late now and the inside of this latest Panther

is a little dark but some dust and dry brushing helps to lighten it somewhat. I don't think any two of the WWII German tanks

were exactly the same inside (or even outside) so it doesn't matter, if it looks good then it is good.

 

The inside of the driver's and radio operators hatches are basic body color, in my case Tamiya Dark Yellow over NATO Black

primer. I don't think they wanted white squares showing when the hatches were open, sort of disrupts the camo scheme.

 

I don't know of anyone who sells metal tracks in 1/16 scale. I looked for Friulmodel and couldn't find any. I finished the guide horns

on the tracks for the second Panther last night and happy that's complete, believe me. 

 

Now I'm in the midst of building the frames around the radio equipment. Lots of pe bending and fiddling there and it will be

completely hidden unless the upper hull is removed.

 

BTW some of Trumpeter's color call outs are a little fishy to me so I painted some things as I thought they probably should be in

real life and shamelessly copied some of the other builds on this site that looked natural to me.

 

Take care,

 

Lloyd

Edited by BlackMax12

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Thanks for the info, Lloyd. I shall go with your colour suggestions. As you say, Trumpeter's colour call outs seem rather dodgy to me too :  insignia white for the turret and crew compartment ? I'm going with cream ( Eifenbein ) which I believe was the colour mostly used for German AFV interiors.Once again thanks for your help and info . . . It's much appreciated. :cheers:👍

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14 minutes ago, Overhaulin said:

Taigen do a set of G/F metal tracks, no idea how the detail compares to the kit parts though.

https://www.taigentanks.com/taigen-parts/panther-jp

Thanks for the heads up on the metal tracks. I think they might be available here in the UK, which would make postage, etc. cheaper. :cheers:

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Posted (edited)

Try Forgebear tanks in the UK. I've ordered ATAK zimmerit from them and they are good.

They have the Taigen Panther G metal tracks for 49.99 pounds sterling. (there is no pound sign on my keyboard)

 

You might need to get the metal sprockets and idlers too and make them fit the Trumpeter chassis.

Actually the Trumpeter tracks are a bit of work but they look good, fit great and are very flexible so the sag is just right.

 

Lloyd

 

 

Edited by BlackMax12

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Maybe I will have a go at the kit's tracks after all. Just set a couple of days aside for them ! :cheers:

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Quick Panther update : I've just received some Taigen metal tracks from Forgebear for my model, and I'm very impressed with the quality, and also the fast delivery from them . . . they arrived by return post, so very impressed ! I'm sure the weight won't be a problem, as mine is a static model.plus they're are pre - assembled, so no faffing around with guide horns !  :cheers:

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I can second (or - more accurately - third) the recommendation on Forgebear. They are very good, professional people to deal with. 

 

Chris. 

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Hi guys,

I'm progressing slowly with my build, but I have a question that maybe someone who has built this model can help me with ? My question is this . . . Where, oh where do all the stencils go, as the kit instructions show no details, apart from a couple of dials, turret numbers and shell markings. As for all the others . . . Nothing !

Although it's a lovely kit, Trumpeter have let themselves down badly with their almost total lack of decal info, so if anyone can help I'd be truly grateful. :cheers:

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Hi  Made a start on this kit , Trumpeter does not do us any favours regarding the interior colours . Ground to a halt at stage 7 lots of hull red . Need some info on the colours etc .  Do the interior paint sets list a colour chart for the gearbox,turret power unit , drivers levers ,etc. Found lots of pics of torsion bars 3 colours and transmission also 3 colours.   Books that are good for interior details and pics? Another option is buying the Takom or Ryefields kit for better info, but my eyes are starting to struggle on 1/35 extra fine detail. Thanks.

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Hi ronnie42, I found some photos on the internet of Rye Field and Takom Panthers, where you can see most of the interior colours, which was a great help. I used Humbrol  123 satin extra dark sea grey for the gearbox, turret motor, handles and levers, etc. which looked about right for me.They say to paint the whole lower hull interior  red oxide, but if you look at photos it only extends to a level with the main floor, with the upper part and turret interior light cream/grey, which is available from several paint producers, but I used Humbrol Cream, as it's easy to get hold of, and looks OK ( To me )

There are several books available, and I'd recommend the new Haynes manual on the Panther, which has lots of info, and detail pics.

I've got the hull halves together now, and about to fit the tracks, which are the Taigen metal tracks, as I couldn't face fitting all those guide horns to every link ! I originally planned to leave the top loose to enable the interior to be viewed, but after I'd fitted all the shells I found it wouldn't sit properly . . . Possibly something I didn't get quite right, so it's now glued together. However, all the upper panels are a snug fit, so lifting them off enables one to see inside, so no major disaster !:cheers:

 

 

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Hi!

 

Late to the game for input on how to display the interior, but on my Tiger II I've done the same as David Parker, Liejon Schoot et al have done, which is to cut loose the roof, so that it can be lifted off. It is not really very difficult to do, and the Panther and the Tiger II are rather similar looking vehicles, so my below images should be instructive enough.

 

There's one caveat, and that is that you will need to increase the side wall thickness towards scale thickness for the roof to have something to rest on. This may cause problems if the ammo racks get in the way of the turret basket etc.

 

That aside the basic idea is to cut the roof along the weld, remove the plastic weld, glue strips of styrene to the bottom edge of the roof, insert the roof after having lubricated the edges slightly, and then replacing the weld using Magic Sculpt or something similar. You will then have a tight fitting roof with weld along its edge, and all this can be lifted free from the model.

 

At least on the Tiger II this is a safer option than to remove the entire upper hull.

 

I used my Trumpeter panel scriber to cut the plastic. Easy but time consuming.

 

X3KRkslUO6EKIIkEza4pV2gXn9CX3sGuC1To0xP0

 

loaG4hIsHm1_6pZuenSQHa3YXGPnnHfhqatVImiG

 

Added styrene sheets to the side walls

 

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and had to fill the gap in the front armour

 

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Here you can see the strips along the edges of the roof before replacing the weld

 

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Weld in place (there are minor gaps mainly due to the rest of the upper hull not being glued to the lower hull yet)

 

WJFy43R6QrWFIB1rHNlf3u08Q2gaGgrdKdHA88eG

 

Good luck whichever way you decide to take your Panther project!

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Hi Arid,

As you guessed, I've already glued the top of the hull to the bottom, but luckily by leaving the top panels loose you will be able to see most of the interior anyway, and the engine bay and forward large panels are nice snug fits, so I've decided that that is the easiest option.

One thing I have found is that the Taigen metal tracks I bought won't fit round the rear idler wheels , so I'm now embarking on using the kit tracks, with all 172 guide horns per track to assemble  ! Hey ho, I'll just do them in batches of 20 or so, that way I can avoid " Track fatigue " 😄. Thanks for your  suggestion, though . . . seems like a good idea for the future. By the way, if you know of anyone who needs a set of metal tracks let me know ! :cheers:

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Starfighter    Thanks for the info , will see if Tamiya has a colour match if not will buy some Humbrol paints. AM thats a good idea was thinking about a plain perspex top and sides. If i am brave  a cutout for the front panel on the deck. 

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Starfighter     Perhaps the trumpeter has the same idler as the Tamiya rc Panther , Kenny Kong metal tracks may fit. The rc tank tracks are not a standard fit across Tamiya, Henglong or Taigen  Panthers

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