Alclad II - Undercoat question

[Karl]

Hi chaps,

 

I'm working on my 1970's Kenner C3-P0 and planning to paint it using Alclad II Gold, however I'm struggling with what undercoat to use.

 

Question:  Has anyone used Halfords Gloss black as an undercoat for Alclad II ??

 

I've been looking and reading various tips and tricks but I thought I would ask to. The Gold needs a gloss black undercoat. I prime my models using Halfords standard car body grey primer - an acrylic that needs cellulose thinners to clean up and I can over paint this with Humbrol Enamels as I've been doing for years without issue.

 

So I did some tests.

 

Test one - was to paint over the grey with Humbrol gloss black. I've left that for about 12 hours and then tried the Alclad and it immediately reacted and crazed the surface. Odd this as I had heard good things about using Humbrol gloss black to undercoat for Alclad.

 

Test two - was to use Alclad's own gloss undercoat (over the grey) and then gold - this seems to work well but I have read lots of people say that the Alclad black does not dry at all so I'm worried about using thins combination.

 

Test three - was using Halfords satin bumper black over the grey (random choice as I had it on the bench) and this also worked very well.

 

Any suggestions would be great;y received.

 

Kind regards

 

Karl

 

 

 

 

[Tomjw]

Hi Karl,

 

The 'official' advice is to use a gloss black enamel base coat for any high sheen Alclad II finish. People do use a gloss black satin base coat, but I've heard that the quality of the Alclad finish can degrade over time.  I don't know what type of paint Halfords is, I'm afraid. I avoid Alclad's own gloss black base like the plague. As you allude to in your post, it didn't dry for me and it's a real pig to strip from the plastic.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Tom.

[Steve Noble]

You only need the perfect gloss black base with the high shine finishes such as the chrome for example. The gold isn't a high shine as far as I'm aware..

[Tomjw]

45 minutes ago, Steve Noble said:

You only need the perfect gloss black base with the high shine finishes such as the chrome for example. The gold isn't a high shine as far as I'm aware..

 

Yes and no 🙂.

 

A gloss black base is essential for the high shine finishes, absolutely. But in order to get a deep finish for any of the other Alclads, a gloss black base works very well. I have also had great success with varying primers for different effects with the same bottle of Alclad.

 

But whatever primer you use, the surface has to be perfect as Alclad will show up the slightest imperfection.

 

Cheers,

 

Tom

[bmwh548]

If my memory serves me Alclad is lacquer based. It will easily eat through weaker paints and it can easily wrinkle enamels. Whenever I use MRP's Chrome (which is lacquer based) I use Mr. Hobby Gloss Black (either the old stuff or the new GX series which is lacquer based). I say go with Mr. Hobby, they dry very fast, grip is excellent and you can overcoat them with just about anything.

[Tomjw]

19 hours ago, bmwh548 said:

If my memory serves me Alclad is lacquer based. It will easily eat through weaker paints and it can easily wrinkle enamels. Whenever I use MRP's Chrome (which is lacquer based) I use Mr. Hobby Gloss Black (either the old stuff or the new GX series which is lacquer based). I say go with Mr. Hobby, they dry very fast, grip is excellent and you can overcoat them with just about anything.

 

I've never used MRP Chrome, but I've heard great things aboit their paints and am looki g forward to trying them. Alclad is laquer based and goes on beautifully onto plain old Humbrol enamel gloss black. It's my go-to base coat for when I want a deep metalic look. I've never had any problems with any wrinkling.

[bmwh548]

I tried MRP over some Revell enamel gloss black. Not doing that again. Unless you apply it in extremely thin layers it will easily wrinkle the enamel undercoat. The lacquer solvent is very aggressive, I've actually seen styrene "etched" by MRP. They're really nice paints, but they need a very steady hand and tons of patience. 

[Steve Noble]

On 22/04/2019 at 22:35, Tomjw said:

 

Yes and no 🙂.

 

A gloss black base is essential for the high shine finishes, absolutely. But in order to get a deep finish for any of the other Alclads, a gloss black base works very well. I have also had great success with varying primers for different effects with the same bottle of Alclad.

 

But whatever primer you use, the surface has to be perfect as Alclad will show up the slightest imperfection.

 

Cheers,

 

Tom

Hi Tom. I only tend to use the gold Alclad on engine parts, suspension parts etc. I use black or dark grey primer. Never need it to be a perfect finish, so of it's a bit rougher it's not a problem. If you want it flawless, then I agree, a good gloss black base is the way to go..

[Karl]

23 hours ago, Tomjw said:

 

I've never used MRP Chrome, but I've heard great things aboit their paints and am looki g forward to trying them. Alclad is laquer based and goes on beautifully onto plain old Humbrol enamel gloss black. It's my go-to base coat for when I want a deep metalic look. I've never had any problems with any wrinkling.

 

This is what I keep hearing that Humbrol enamel gloss black is the way to go, so I don't understand why it wrinkled on mine.

 

Unless it had to do with the fact that I used Halfords grey primer under the gloss black and then the Alclad.

 

Karl

[Tomjw]

47 minutes ago, Steve Noble said:

Hi Tom. I only tend to use the gold Alclad on engine parts, suspension parts etc. I use black or dark grey primer. Never need it to be a perfect finish, so of it's a bit rougher it's not a problem. If you want it flawless, then I agree, a good gloss black base is the way to go..

 

I'm currently building a 1/24 P-51D and using a technique similar to what you're describing when using Alclad on your engine parts. I want the natural metal finish to look old, oxidised, faded and used, so I'm using Tamiya AS-12 Bare Metal Silver as a primer, followed by a random squiggled pattern of dark grey as a patchy pre-shade. I've the applied the alclad on top of that. Like you, I didn't want it to look flawless. Actually it looks great and will be weathered further using light earth weathering to fade the metal effect further.

[Tomjw]

39 minutes ago, Karl said:

 

This is what I keep hearing that Humbrol enamel gloss black is the way to go, so I don't understand why it wrinkled on mine.

 

Unless it had to do with the fact that I used Halfords grey primer under the gloss black and then the Alclad.

 

Karl

 

Hi Karl,

 

Not sure about the primer layer, but it does sound like it could be a dodgy batch of Humbrol gloss black. Maybe you used one of the pots manufactured in China (or wherever it was) before Humbrol started bringing paint manufacture back in house. Just a thought.

 

Cheers,

 

Tom.

[Tbolt]

On 4/23/2019 at 7:43 PM, Tomjw said:

 

I've never used MRP Chrome, but I've heard great things aboit their paints and am looki g forward to trying them. Alclad is laquer based and goes on beautifully onto plain old Humbrol enamel gloss black. It's my go-to base coat for when I want a deep metalic look. I've never had any problems with any wrinkling.

I've had Aclad craze Humbrol enamel before when I've sprayed it too heavily in areas. Though lately I've had problem with Alclad not sticking to Humbrol and pulling up with Tamiya tape - these bottles are a few years old and I'm wondering if they loose their hotness with age as I use to have no problem with them sticking but now they don't seem to have much bite.

[Tomjw]

On 4/28/2019 at 10:10 AM, Tbolt said:

I've had Aclad craze Humbrol enamel before when I've sprayed it too heavily in areas. Though lately I've had problem with Alclad not sticking to Humbrol and pulling up with Tamiya tape - these bottles are a few years old and I'm wondering if they loose their hotness with age as I use to have no problem with them sticking but now they don't seem to have much bite.

I think if you spray Alclad too heavily, it'll craze anything.  I read somewhere that alclad had to be left for aboit a week before masking, so I tend to follow that advice and have never had peeling problems. All my bottles are old, mainly because I can't find anywhere to buy it.

[Tbolt]

2 hours ago, Tomjw said:

I think if you spray Alclad too heavily, it'll craze anything.  I read somewhere that alclad had to be left for aboit a week before masking, so I tend to follow that advice and have never had peeling problems. All my bottles are old, mainly because I can't find anywhere to buy it.

I’ve never had it craze lacquer paint, but yes it probably would if you went made with it.

 

Reference masking, when Alclad first came out I could spray it then mask it 30 minutes later without a problem. Now if I leave it three weeks I can still get it pealing. 

[colin]

Try light coats and build up the layers up over time, allowing the first to dry before spraying the next the next