Phantom FG1

[Lord Riot]

Having just finished the Revell 1/48 Phantom FGR2, I was wondering how accurate it would be to make one as a 43 squadron FG1? What would I need to do to the FGR2 to make it reasonably accurate, was there any visible external difference? I'm not bothered with engraving different panels and rivets but if anything was fairly obviously different I'll try and do it. Just want to know before splashing out on another kit. 

[Ossington 2]

Off the top of my head:

Remove/omit/fill the catapult hooks at the intake/wing junction.

Slice off the fixed slat on the leading edge of the tailplane. It was an add-on, there is no need to extend the LE to compensate.

Replace the nose wheel door. The navy version has a row of lights that land variants don't.

I think the nose wheel leg differs, but can't recall the difference. Is it one, not two torque links?

Lots of people on here know a lot more. Wait an hour!  

[71chally]

I think Ossington has possibly got this the wrong way around, but for ALL FG.1s (Navy and RAF) you would use the slotted tailplane, the catapult hooks and depressions, nose wheel door with the three carrier approach indicator lights, differing tail cone (I think, others can clarify?) and the double extending type noseleg.

 

The original Hasegawa kit has all these alternative parts in the box, but I genuinely can't remember if the Revell one does.  If not, I would say the biggest challenge would be adding that new slotted tailplane leading edge.

 

Far less noticeable, there are minor detail differences in some of the panel lines to areas of the aft fusleage and fin leading edge, can be filled and rescribed if very fussy.

Edited April 14, 2019 by 71chally

[triumphfan]

Majority of the FG.1 parts are on sprue J of the Hasegawa kit which is not in any of the 5 Revell kits I purchased recently (all current reissue)

When I say majority I mean the difficult to alter parts, tail plane and nose leg.

Pretty sure the non RWR fin top is in the Revell boxing though.

 

Atb, Steve.

[Troffa]

The UK Phantom used both Brake Parachute doors-(tail cone)  one with the white tail Identification light and one without--the tail light moved to the door when the RWR Antenna displaced it from the fin. 

 

[Antti_K]

My Lord,

 

the original Hasegawa boxing is an FG.1. If the parts are the same in the Revell boxing then there are no modifications needed.

 

As James said you need to use the slotted stabilators, the bridle hooks and slightly "heavier" nose gear together with a NLG door with approach lights. Note also that FG.1's nose landing gear is raked backwards some 2 degrees when on FGR.2 it is perpendicular to the Water Line. A very small detail missing from the kit is the "shark fin" shaped arrestor net cutting blade on top of the nose. If you are building an early version then you need to replace the ejection seats with MB H-5s (H-7s in the box).

 

Kind Regards,

Antti

[Lord Riot]

Thanks for the responses chaps, that's really helpful. It sounds like the biggest issue will be the tailplanes then, I'll have to see if that's something I can do myself with a sharp knife! 

[Andrew Jones]

The only differences in the plastic that I can see between the Revell FGR2 and a Hasegawa FG1 are the tailplane sprues, The Revell kit has sprue K carrying the unslotted tailplanes and the Hasegawa FG1 has sprue J carrying slotted tailplanes and the FG1 extended nosewheel leg. All the others parts would appear to be identical in both boxings.

[Retired Bob]

4 hours ago, Lord Riot said:

Thanks for the responses chaps, that's really helpful. It sounds like the biggest issue will be the tailplanes then, I'll have to see if that's something I can do myself with a sharp knife! 

David, the Hypersonic slotted and unslotted tailplanes are really nice and more accurate than the Hasegawa offerings.

 

Bob

[SleeperService]

IIRC when the Navy birds went to the RAF the double extending nose gear was converted back to standard as the FGR.2 BUT this was only by disabling the second extension so the double torque link and 3deg leg back slant remained. I concur on the Hypersonic tailplanes, a very worthwhile upgrade IMHO. My notes agree with Troffa about the brake parachute housing. I've lost touch with the guy who gave me that info though. I do remember that the rear cockpit is nearly FG.1 so it needs changing to suit the airframe.

 

It's good to have it around at a decent price again.

EDIT: To correct an assumption, Thanks to Antti_K and 71Chally for reminding me not to make assumptions.

[Antti_K]

45 minutes ago, SleeperService said:

IIRC when the Navy birds went to the RAF the double extending nose gear was converted back to standard as the FGR.2

Hello all,

 

I remember reading that the conversion meant that a Circuit Breaker (or a solenoid) was disabled but no further modifications were made.

 

Antti

[71chally]

1 hour ago, SleeperService said:

IIRC when the Navy birds went to the RAF the double extending nose gear was converted back to standard as the FGR.2 I concur on the Hypersonic tailplanes, a very worthwhile upgrade IMHO. My notes agree with Troffa about the brake parachute housing. I've lost touch with the guy who gave me that info though. I do remember that the rear cockpit is nearly FG.1 so it needs changing to suit the airframe.

 

It's good to have it around at a decent price again.

That's not the case, the FG.1 in RAF service retained its original noseleg and is given away by the two sets of torque links and other very small detail differences (such as the arrestor cable guard) from the FGR.2 leg.

The double extending function was disabled, as Antti says.

 

I hadn't realised that there were aftermarket FG.1 tailplanes, I will have to invest, especially as they are made by Hypersonic!

It is great to have this kit available again, especially as it can be had for the price of the 72nd Airfix one.

 

I guess another way to possibly get the tailplanes would be to plead in the wanted section for anyone who has built their Hasegawa kit as an FGR.2.

[tony.t]

I'm intending to build an FG.1 from one of the Revell FGR.2 re-pops recently acquired.

 

my checklist comprises:

*use wing root wells with hooks rather than blanking pieces

*Hypersonic slotted stabilator (and interior canopy framing)

*use relevant NLG door (IIRC both are included)

*faff with the rear IP based on Aeroguide etc references 

*beef-up, if possible, NLG leg, give it an aft 3° rake and another scissor link (best stolen from a Hasegawa MLG link)

*Xtradecals for 43 Sqn (or 111) and ditto if doing a Navy bird. If you don't want the Colonial Navy mkg use the Xtradecal Sea Vixen sheet for regulation ROYAL NAVY titles

 

SAC do a metal FG.1 set but it's pricey and cast from soldering metal (or something equally soft)

 

Tony 

 

[tony.t]

Oh, and Alleycat generic FGR.2/FG.1 resin inlets. I have two on order.

 

Been advised to avoid Aires nozzles as many castings are allegedly undersize. The kit parts are a bit shallow but apparently it was all sooty in there anyway.

 

HTH

 

Tony

 

 

[rs2man]

If you just want a 43 Sqn aircraft as opposed to specifically an FG1  , they operated 2 or 3 FGR2's late on in their Phantom era . XV406 rings a bell . 

[SleeperService]

13 hours ago, Antti_K said:

Hello all,

 

I remember reading that the conversion meant that a Circuit Breaker (or a solenoid) was disabled but no further modifications were made.

 

Antti

 

12 hours ago, 71chally said:

That's not the case, the FG.1 in RAF service retained its original noseleg and is given away by the two sets of torque links and other very small detail differences (such as the arrestor cable guard) from the FGR.2 leg.

The double extending function was disabled, as Antti says.

 

I hadn't realised that there were aftermarket FG.1 tailplanes, I will have to invest, especially as they are made by Hypersonic!

It is great to have this kit available again, especially as it can be had for the price of the 72nd Airfix one.

 

I guess another way to possibly get the tailplanes would be to plead in the wanted section for anyone who has built their Hasegawa kit as an FGR.2.

Thanks for that so the noseleg still had it's 3deg backwards slant then? Amending post.

[71chally]

It did, had a good old crawl over one on the w.end!

[71chally]

Not sure how true it is, but apparently the Revell Phantom doesn't come with the correct British main wheels?

If that is the cse then ideally you will need the some aftermarket ones, such as those from Brassin, Reskit of Royal resin.

 

I must admit the kits' shallow intakes have never bothered me, I rarely look up em!

 

 

[Julien]

The Revell plastic is here;
 

 

[Irish 251]

This image shows XT864 as it now is at Long Kesh after restoration to its original Royal Navy colours.  As can be seen, it retained the double-extending nose-leg and catapult points while in RAF service.

XT864 | Royal Navy | McDonnell Douglas Phantom FG.1 | 16-02-2019 by Brian Griffin, on Flickr

[Lord Riot]

On 15/04/2019 at 23:02, rs2man said:

If you just want a 43 Sqn aircraft as opposed to specifically an FG1  , they operated 2 or 3 FGR2's late on in their Phantom era . XV406 rings a bell . 

 

I didn't know that, but I want to do a green/grey one from the early 80s, with the big black and white checks on the intakes, so it'll need to be an FG1. 

[tony.t]

Yes, and the wheels. The kit comes with the USAF/FMS types (original Hasegawa kts featured metal and vinyl rubber wheels which are missing in the Revell repop) so F-4J/S type wheels need to be sourced.

 

Tony 

[Troffa]

Tony T. beat me to it, but some pics below for those interested!

 

The original Hasegawa releases of the British FGR Mk2  (kit P16) and FG Mk1  (P17) and I assume ( The Special 25th Anniversary Phantom Kit CH8) came with white metal wheel hubs and vinyl tyres which correctly represented the assemblies fitted to our UK Phantoms (And US Navy tooms)

The Sprue parts represent the USAF type mainwheel, which essentially has a circular plate on its hub face, and an annular slot running around the hub . The UK (and US navy Mainwheel) has one big nut and several holes around the assembly.

I assume that all of the Hasegawa boxings of the kit have these metal parts. The Revell re-issue never did.  

 

Couple of pics here:

 

F-4F Wheel hub (as supplied in kit)

 

F-4D Mainwheel (same as F-4F)

 

FGR Mk2 Mainwheel

 

 

I do love a Phantom thread 🙂 

 

 

[Antti_K]

Hello all,

 

I have two Hasegawa kits at hand; one built and one "soon to be built". Both have the correct main wheels for a British Phantom (in Frame E). No metal or vinyl parts were included in these two kits. So check the contents carefully before you buy any resin wheels. Aires resin wheels look better than the kit ones but I think that reasonable representations can be built using kit parts.

 

This is the first one

 

The boxing was for a No 56 Squadron FGR.2 in overall gray scheme with a red fin. The panel lines at the rear fuselage and rear cockpit layout show that this is actually an FG.1. My other Hasegawa kit is a "Treble One" boxing XV583 (Should be an FGR.2?) with correct wheels again in frame E. Also the surface and cockpit detailing is for an FG.1.

 

Antti

Edited April 18, 2019 by Antti_K
Added a note about metal avinyl parts

[Troffa]

That's interesting to know Antti, as it suggests a modification to the hasegawa tool.

In Juliens post #19 above, the sprue E has the USAF/ FMS type mainwheels, top right, with their rear halves top left. Could you post a photo of your sprue E?

 

Cheers,

 

Troffa