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Andre B

TBF-1 Avenger

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Posted (edited)

What's the reason for the look of the window below the gunturret on the Avenger's? Was it a hatch that could be opened or.. ?

 

Cheers / André

Edited by Andre B

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There is an entry door on the starboard side. In the image below, you can see the door's outline below the roundel, to the left of the observation blister.

 

large_000000.jpg?_ga=2.54906985.33566493

 

 

Chris

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Here are some contemporaneous photos at Alamy of the Avenger. I think what you're asking about are observation windows for the radioman/bombardier/ventral gunner, which apparently have various shapes.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, dogsbody said:

There is an entry door on the starboard side. In the image below, you can see the door's outline below the roundel, to the left of the observation blister.

 

large_000000.jpg?_ga=2.54906985.33566493

 

 

Chris

 

Hello,

I knew about the door. My question was about the window in front of that door. Your picture shows an more normal (postwar?) observation blister. But most Avenger's I've seen had an more "catseye look window"...

Cheers / André

 

https://www.ipmsstockholm.se/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10734

Edited by Andre B

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The blister window was fitted to FAA Avengers, as requested by the British. It wasn't just a post-war mod. You also won't see the blisters on any US Navy Avengers.

 

large_000000.jpg?_ga=2.29407101.33566493

 

large_000000.jpg?_ga=2.268800819.3356649

 

large_000000.jpg?_ga=2.55491689.33566493

 

large_000000.jpg?_ga=2.255824714.3356649

 

large_000000.jpg?_ga=2.234869340.3356649

 

large_000000.jpg?_ga=2.54850793.33566493

 

The US Navy Avengers have a flat observation window.

 

 

 

Chris

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13 minutes ago, dogsbody said:

The blister window was fitted to FAA Avengers, as requested by the British. It wasn't just a post-war mod. You also won't see the blisters on any US Navy Avengers.

 

large_000000.jpg?_ga=2.29407101.33566493

 

large_000000.jpg?_ga=2.29407101.33566493

 

large_000000.jpg?_ga=2.55491689.33566493

 

large_000000.jpg?_ga=2.255824714.3356649

 

large_000000.jpg?_ga=2.234869340.3356649

 

large_000000.jpg?_ga=2.54850793.33566493

 

The US Navy Avengers have a flat observation window.

 

 

 

Chris

Yes, and that's what I wonder. Why did the US Navy Avengers have that flat observation window? Why wasn't it round as the FAA Avenger's?

 

Cheers / André

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I don't know. It's been a while since I last read anything concerning Avengers. Perhaps those more fluent in TBF/TBM lore will be able to answer your question properly.

 

 

Chris

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57 minutes ago, Andre B said:

Why did the US Navy Avengers have that flat observation window? Why wasn't it round as the FAA Avenger's?

Your question is back-to-front.

Q. Why wasn't the FAA Avenger fitted with a flat window like the existing TBM?

A. Because the British procurement authority requested a convex observation window.

 

The reason they requested it may have been because they wanted something they could observe through rather than something that just illuminated the interior.

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19 minutes ago, Ed Russell said:

Your question is back-to-front.

Q. Why wasn't the FAA Avenger fitted with a flat window like the existing TBM?

A. Because the British procurement authority requested a convex observation window.

 

The reason they requested it may have been because they wanted something they could observe through rather than something that just illuminated the interior.

Well...

It's the US Navy Avenger's I am interested in...

 

So the windows om those US Navy aircrafts was just for illuminating the interior?

 

They looked rather complicated or was the round frame around the glass just an easy way for Grumman to build two different types with one fuselage concerning demands from the US Navy and FAA?

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4 hours ago, Andre B said:

So the windows om those US Navy aircraft was just for illuminating the interior?

Note my words "may have been" which implies no certainty, in fact implies uncertainty!

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Andre, have a look at the shape of the metal fuselage opening behind the domed cover on the FAA Avengers. The same shape as on the USN Avengers at least, that's what I've always believed & it certainly looks like it to me. I'm picking Ed's comment is a bit tongue in cheek, but certainly the FAA's version would have been more useful for observing a wider area, no idea why the USN didn't go for the same but evidence is they didn't.

Steve.

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Posted (edited)

Yes Steve,

 

Why the window on the US Navy Avenger's looks as it does is strange. For sure the FAA variant was more useful espacially as the observer/bombardier sat in that small, cramped compartment under the gunturret and not between the pilot and the turret...

 

https://www.pacificaviationmuseum.org/pearl-harbor-blog/mystery-middle-seat/amp/

 

Cheers / André

Edited by Andre B

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Avengers for the FAA went through a modification to bring them up to RN spec . Many were modified by the Blackburn Aeroplane Company

at Burn Aerodrome here inYorkshire . Apart from the blister side windows they also had a navigators position put in behind the pilot , leaving

the position below the turret for the Wireless op/tunnel gunner . I think they also had British gun sights and radios fitted .

Whether these mods were used on aircraft for the Pacific Fleet I don`t know .

                                                                                                                           Don .

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It seems that the US Navy walked the other way with just two aircrew onboard instead of three (or four) with the bombaimer left on the aircraft carrier and no seat at all between the pilot and gunturret...

 

/André

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14 hours ago, Tom R said:

Excellent find which answers quite a few questions about the TBM.

Yes, and I mentioned it in #12. Did I miss something as it was mentioned again in #15?

 

Cheers / André

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7 hours ago, Andre B said:

Did I miss something as it was mentioned again in #15?

Two different websites by the look of it, Yours being Pacificaviationmuseum & Ed's being pearlharboraviationmuseum, different web addresses, same page relating to the TBF in boths, given the similarity in the name configuration, they're likely related.

Steve.

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