Andre B Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) What's the reason for the look of the window below the gunturret on the Avenger's? Was it a hatch that could be opened or.. ? Cheers / André Edited April 16, 2019 by Andre B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 There is an entry door on the starboard side. In the image below, you can see the door's outline below the roundel, to the left of the observation blister. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnl42 Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Here are some contemporaneous photos at Alamy of the Avenger. I think what you're asking about are observation windows for the radioman/bombardier/ventral gunner, which apparently have various shapes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre B Posted April 8, 2019 Author Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, dogsbody said: There is an entry door on the starboard side. In the image below, you can see the door's outline below the roundel, to the left of the observation blister. Chris Hello, I knew about the door. My question was about the window in front of that door. Your picture shows an more normal (postwar?) observation blister. But most Avenger's I've seen had an more "catseye look window"... Cheers / André https://www.ipmsstockholm.se/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10734 Edited April 8, 2019 by Andre B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 The blister window was fitted to FAA Avengers, as requested by the British. It wasn't just a post-war mod. You also won't see the blisters on any US Navy Avengers. The US Navy Avengers have a flat observation window. Chris 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre B Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 13 minutes ago, dogsbody said: The blister window was fitted to FAA Avengers, as requested by the British. It wasn't just a post-war mod. You also won't see the blisters on any US Navy Avengers. The US Navy Avengers have a flat observation window. Chris Yes, and that's what I wonder. Why did the US Navy Avengers have that flat observation window? Why wasn't it round as the FAA Avenger's? Cheers / André Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 I don't know. It's been a while since I last read anything concerning Avengers. Perhaps those more fluent in TBF/TBM lore will be able to answer your question properly. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 57 minutes ago, Andre B said: Why did the US Navy Avengers have that flat observation window? Why wasn't it round as the FAA Avenger's? Your question is back-to-front. Q. Why wasn't the FAA Avenger fitted with a flat window like the existing TBM? A. Because the British procurement authority requested a convex observation window. The reason they requested it may have been because they wanted something they could observe through rather than something that just illuminated the interior. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre B Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 19 minutes ago, Ed Russell said: Your question is back-to-front. Q. Why wasn't the FAA Avenger fitted with a flat window like the existing TBM? A. Because the British procurement authority requested a convex observation window. The reason they requested it may have been because they wanted something they could observe through rather than something that just illuminated the interior. Well... It's the US Navy Avenger's I am interested in... So the windows om those US Navy aircrafts was just for illuminating the interior? They looked rather complicated or was the round frame around the glass just an easy way for Grumman to build two different types with one fuselage concerning demands from the US Navy and FAA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 4 hours ago, Andre B said: So the windows om those US Navy aircraft was just for illuminating the interior? Note my words "may have been" which implies no certainty, in fact implies uncertainty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Andre, have a look at the shape of the metal fuselage opening behind the domed cover on the FAA Avengers. The same shape as on the USN Avengers at least, that's what I've always believed & it certainly looks like it to me. I'm picking Ed's comment is a bit tongue in cheek, but certainly the FAA's version would have been more useful for observing a wider area, no idea why the USN didn't go for the same but evidence is they didn't. Steve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre B Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 (edited) Yes Steve, Why the window on the US Navy Avenger's looks as it does is strange. For sure the FAA variant was more useful espacially as the observer/bombardier sat in that small, cramped compartment under the gunturret and not between the pilot and the turret... https://www.pacificaviationmuseum.org/pearl-harbor-blog/mystery-middle-seat/amp/ Cheers / André Edited April 9, 2019 by Andre B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don149 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Avengers for the FAA went through a modification to bring them up to RN spec . Many were modified by the Blackburn Aeroplane Company at Burn Aerodrome here inYorkshire . Apart from the blister side windows they also had a navigators position put in behind the pilot , leaving the position below the turret for the Wireless op/tunnel gunner . I think they also had British gun sights and radios fitted . Whether these mods were used on aircraft for the Pacific Fleet I don`t know . Don . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre B Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 It seems that the US Navy walked the other way with just two aircrew onboard instead of three (or four) with the bombaimer left on the aircraft carrier and no seat at all between the pilot and gunturret... /André Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 https://www.pearlharboraviationmuseum.org/pearl-harbor-blog/mystery-middle-seat/ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre B Posted April 10, 2019 Author Share Posted April 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Ed Russell said: https://www.pearlharboraviationmuseum.org/pearl-harbor-blog/mystery-middle-seat/ And... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom R Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 10 hours ago, Ed Russell said: https://www.pearlharboraviationmuseum.org/pearl-harbor-blog/mystery-middle-seat/ Excellent find which answers quite a few questions about the TBM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre B Posted April 10, 2019 Author Share Posted April 10, 2019 14 hours ago, Tom R said: Excellent find which answers quite a few questions about the TBM. Yes, and I mentioned it in #12. Did I miss something as it was mentioned again in #15? Cheers / André Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard502 Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Andre B and Ed, thank you for the link! Richard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 7 hours ago, Andre B said: Did I miss something as it was mentioned again in #15? Two different websites by the look of it, Yours being Pacificaviationmuseum & Ed's being pearlharboraviationmuseum, different web addresses, same page relating to the TBF in boths, given the similarity in the name configuration, they're likely related. Steve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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