Jump to content
This site uses cookies! Learn More

This site uses cookies!

You can find a list of those cookies here: mysite.com/cookies

By continuing to use this site, you agree to allow us to store cookies on your computer. :)

Sign in to follow this  
Ghostbase

Spanish Sabre - ESCI 1/48 'F-86F'

Recommended Posts

Still a few weeks left on this GB and I would like to join in with a blast from the past, 1979 to be exact, the ESCI 1/48th scale North American F-86F Sabre operated by the Spanish Ejercito Del Aire from 1955 onwards.

 

F-86F Box

 

Last year was a bad year for me modelling mojo wise, am currently wrestling with the Kitty Hawk RF-101C Voodoo and I just want something straightforward which I can build and complete in a few weeks. I have never made any F-86 Sabre in this scale, I have several ESCI kits in the stash, so this one would be good to work on.

 

F-86F Box2

 

The kit itself dates back to 1979, I think this is the original boxing, and has around 70 parts. Interestingly the panel lines appear to be engraved, not raised, and a first look on-line suggests that this kit is still produced from time to time by Italeri.

 

F-86F Decals

 

The kit decals cover three subjects and the Spanish ones caught my eye. However they will be up to 40 years old so I will need a back-up in case they cannot be used.

 

F-86F Inst

 

I do have some research to do about this kit, especially the type of wing which is something I know very little about, also whether these markings fall within the time period of this GB.

 

Good to be here 🙂

 

Michael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now, I have had a disturbing thought. Spain was not a member of NATO in 1959 when ALa 5 was formed on the F-86F. In fact Spain did not join NATO until 1982 although the Pact of Madrid in 1953 pledged the United States to furnish economic and military aid to Spain. The United States, in turn, was to be permitted to construct and to utilize air and naval bases on Spanish territory (Naval Station Rota, Morón Air Base, Torrejón Air Base and Zaragoza Air Base) Source Wiki.

 

So I check the GB rules:  "the remit of this GB is to cover military equipment used by the armed forces of countries within Western Europe during that period and chart the changes that occured as those countries transitioned from the end of World War Two into the height of the Cold War and the formation of NATO and the Warsaw Pact as well as the nations who remained neutral."

 

I would argue that Spain was within Western Europe and remained neutral, however by the mid 50's it was leaning towards the United States of America and recognised the threat posed by the Warsaw Pact. General Franco was a staunch anticommunist and would very likely have given every assistance possible to the United States had things turned hot.

 

Michael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome to the GB Michael. I'm delighted to see you and your Spanish Sabre here :D 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Looking forward to your Spanish Sabre C.5!

 

Was thinking of doing one myself  first.... turned onto.an Austrian based MiG-15.... 

Edited by exdraken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice to see another Sabre being built on BM.

Perhaps it's just me as Sabre's are on my future build plans and the eye naturally gets drawn to these five letters.  

I'll follow on with interest as I'm keen to see this kit built. The box title suggests that this kit represents a F-86E, however not sure if those small upper wing fences are appropriate for this type.  

 

Cheers and good luck.. Dave 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Hi, I'll tag along if I may, having recently re-discovered my love for the F-86. 

I can't remember how this kit  compares to the other 1/48 Sabres, I'm sure I must have built one a long time ago.

 

John

Edited by Biggles87

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the posts and especially exdraken for the link to the other Spanish Sabre topic on BM, I am learning a lot already!

 

Just to continue with photos of the sprues contained in the kit. Starting with the two fuselage halves:

 

F-86F Sprue 1

 

Next the upper wings and fuel drop tanks:

 

F-86F Sprue 2

 

The third sprue with the under wing / fuselage plus pieces. The left hand side of the wing is deformed and will need to be straightened out:

 

F-86F Sprue 3

 

As I have admitted I really don't know much in detail regards the Sabre and especially not the wing 'type'. The box sells this kit as an F-86E yet all three sets of decals are for the F-86F, I don't know where the wing places this kit:

 

F-86F Wing

 

The transparent pieces on one small sprue, have to say that I am impressed by the detail on the canopy:

 

F-86F Trans

 

Will get started on the assembly tomorrow 🙂

 

Michael

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks to be a nice simple kit with good details. How does the cockpit tub look?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at the fuselage parts, the front of the wing root overlaps the ammunition bay door ( smaller panel below the main armament bay panel ) which would indicate to me that it's meant to be an F model.

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Be careful with the Esci's kit....

Spain received F25, 30 and 40.....All the earlier models where updated to F40 standards once they were given their IRAN inspections by CASA in Getafe. Of course, those earlier subjects in better condition were kept original for some time, but it's quite difficult to find a F30 with wing fences still fitted.

On the other hand, the Esci kit is a mixture of different types features. They used to sell the kit as being an F, Canadair Mk.5 or 6, etc...without paying any attention to the small  (and not so small) differences.

OOB, the Esci's kit seems to be a CL.13 one, with a 6-3 wing with leading edge slat and no outward wing extension. So not even good for en earlier F86E.

The Spanish Ejército del Aire decals supplied by Esci are  for a later F40, ex-USAF 55-3995, but not for an F30. It belonged to 131 Escuadrón, Ala de Caza nº 2, Zaragoza. Some spanish examples were fitted with Sidewinder missiles, not the case with C5-103.

Otherwise, I've always found the Esci/Italeri kit a nice, easy kit. Not up to modern standards, but still a good weekend project. They can be built into nice kits, unless a scale building taliban tells you about how unbuildable is it.  Shapewise, I've always liked the Monogram kit more than the Esci one, but we're talking about your kit, and that's all.

Just a tip: be very careful with the undercarriage leges, they're quite flimsy and fragile. If you add some nose weight, the front leg will break for sure.

The later Italeri boxings come with jet intake and exhaust FOD parts, so you can hide that horrible solid front intake....

So my final thought: The Esci kit is not useful for a spanish subject. OOB, the closest you could build would be a Luftwaffe Canadair CL.13, adding some details.

Best regards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Artie, a lot to take in 🙂

 

The ESCI kit is interesting as it cannot seem to decide what it is supposed to be. I do have the ESCI Canadair CL.13 'Mk.IV' kit which is art # 4038 (so one kit before this one) and it seems to be an identical mould, just a different box and decals. I also have the FJ-2/3 Fury  art # 4042 but this has different wings. If I want to be accurate to the Sabre depicted by the kit a Luftwaffe version might be better, my only condition is that I want to complete this kit in NMF. A 'weekend build' was what I wanted to do.

 

The markings supplied in the kit did confuse me to start with. 'C5-103' is the airframe number. '131-5' is the squadron and the number of the aircraft in that squadron? The yellow tiger badge refers to Zaragoza AB, not the Ala? Another question, the kit instructions suggest that the band round the nose is black but I am not sure I trust that, I have been looking up Spanish Sabres via Google images and find red, yellow and blue markings but not black. Also, do these colour bands designate the squadrons or the wings?

 

Final question, I understand from the sources that I have that many of the Spanish Sabres were supplied from the South African Air Force and one suggests that these included those that flew in combat in Korea. However other photos show some South African Sabres being broken up in Korea so that is another grey area, I would love to know that the Ejército del Aire operated some of those Korean War veterans.

 

Thanks

 

Michael

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hhmm many qustions... 

I have Spanish made decals for the Sabre from piezaypieza. 

The references say that black existed with Ala / Wing 2 using the tiger emblem  currently associated with Ala 15 based at Zaragoza AB.

 

C.5 is Caza/Fighter  number 5 of the post civil war airforce, current Eurofighters are C.16s....

If there was an ala 13 / or a 131 squadron ever, I am not sure .... 

Will further investigate!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, exdraken said:

Hhmm many qustions... 

I have Spanish made decals for the Sabre from piezaypieza. 

The references say that black existed with Ala / Wing 2 using the tiger emblem  currently associated with Ala 15 based at Zaragoza AB.

 

C.5 is Caza/Fighter  number 5 of the post civil war airforce, current Eurofighters are C.16s....

If there was an ala 13 / or a 131 squadron ever, I am not sure .... 

Will further investigate!

 

Thanks exdraken, that sufficiently confirms that the decals with the kit are the correct ones for this build and I can go ahead with them. Whether decals that are nearly 40 years old will still be usable remains to be seen, at least I get to try them out for the cockpit instrument panel markings. Am going to get restarted this weekend and despite the Sabre depicted by the kit not being the correct type for the Spanish Ejército del Aire I can live with that 🙂

 

Michael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

hello again,  black is definitley legit, I a m not so sure about the 13/ 131....sorry

vilanova_05.jpg

http://www.nestorlaorden.net/preservados/vilanova_05.jpg

 

avc_00325111.jpg

http://www.aviationcorner.net/show_photo_en.asp?id=325111

 

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:North_American_F-86F_Sabre_Spanish_Air_Force_C.5-58_102-4_(8740157155).jpg

 

So, Zaragoza Airbase had F-86 sabres as ALA 2 and as 102 Sqaudron apparently

 

some more info below,

 

use google translate or  ask again !

 

Cheers,

Werner

http://blogdepasm.blogspot.com/2009/05/north-american-f-86f-sabre-de-la-fuerza.html

 

https://www.model34.com/index.php?topic=3576.0

 

 

Edited by exdraken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has already been a fascinating build thread Michael and you haven't even touched plastic yet! :popcorn:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, CliffB said:

This has already been a fascinating build thread Michael and you haven't even touched plastic yet! :popcorn:

CliffB you are quite right! 😉 There are several phases to a build and I suspect we all have our favourite points; me, I love the early research and learning about an aircraft I knew little about and with experts like Artie and exdragon here I have learnt a great deal already. The actual build is ok for me but nothing more so a 'simple' ESCI kit fits the bill, then the enthusiasm levels go back up for painting and decalling. Whether I continue with this specific build really all depends upon the decals, if they are still good after nearly 40 years then a Spanish Ejército del Aire F-86F it is. If not, a Canadian or West German CL.13 Sabre it will be.

 

Michael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Time to move on and get started. Start by cutting a few items off the sprues; 3 x wing sections, fuselage halves, cockpit tub, instrument panel, and front gear well. From my comments above the direction of this build really depends upon the decals which are nearly 40 years old. Will they work? Will they touch water and dissolve into a mushy goo? Time to start with the instrument panel decals and find out. Kinda ironic that I am currently trying to build a 1/48 scale Kitty Hawk RF-101C Voodoo and that also has decals for the cockpit. Anyway, here they are:

 

 

IMGP0325F-86F

 

Oh wow! Just wow! They work! The cockpit tub has two pieces, the tub and the instrument panel. Put these together then spray with Humbrol 64 from a rattle can (yes, I am terminally lazy, not going to change now). Cut the decals into individual pieces and place in tepid water, they float off the backing paper in a very short time; treat with Decalfix, add to the tub. I am so pleased, the Spanish Ejército del Aire F-86F is a viable build, faults and all. 😊

 

IMGP0327F-86F

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Onto the build. The kit instructions say to attach the cockpit tub to the forward undercarriage well then attach both to the fuselage half. I decided not to do that, experience tells me this does not always work, so I cemented the forward undercarriage well to the fuselage on its own.

 

IMGP0329F-86F

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then slide the cockpit tub over the forward undercarriage well. It fits!

 

IMGP0330F-86F

 

Then cement the two fuselage halves together. I am starting to like this kit 😊

 

Michael

 

IMGP0331F-86F

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good suggestion cementing the nose bay and cockpit as seperate items to the fuselage. Also happy to see that the old Esci decals still work as I have a few of this brands classic kits tucked away myself. Its all looking really good so far. 

 

Cheers.. Dave 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice start :thumbsup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/8/2019 at 11:25 PM, Ghostbase said:

The markings supplied in the kit did confuse me to start with. 'C5-103' is the airframe number. '131-5' is the squadron and the number of the aircraft in that squadron? The yellow tiger badge refers to Zaragoza AB, not the Ala? Another question, the kit instructions suggest that the band round the nose is black but I am not sure I trust that, I have been looking up Spanish Sabres via Google images and find red, yellow and blue markings but not black. Also, do these colour bands designate the squadrons or the wings?

 

Final question, I understand from the sources that I have that many of the Spanish Sabres were supplied from the South African Air Force and one suggests that these included those that flew in combat in Korea. However other photos show some South African Sabres being broken up in Korea so that is another grey area, I would love to know that the Ejército del Aire operated some of those Korean War veterans.

 

Well, I'll try to answer all your questions.....

C5-103.  C.5 means "caza (fighter), type 5. The C4 (caza tipo 4 was the Messerschmitt Bf109 and all its progeny, from the C model to the later Buchón. 103 means the 103rd Sabre from the inventory.

131-5. It's the fifth plane within the 131 Figther Squadron, so you're right.  The Tiger badge belongs to the fighter wing, and not the Air base. The nose band is black, that's right. They represent the squadrons, not the Fighter Wings.

 

All the spanish Sabres were supplied from USAF stocks. We received a grand total of 270 Sabres, from different types:

18 F86F20, 156 F86F25, 32 F86F30 and 65 F86F40. All of them were updated to F40 standard as they passed they IRAN inspections at Getafe.

The first units came in 1954 from Landsthul Air Base, Federal Republic of Germany, 86Th Fighter Bomber Wing (USAF). Later, most of them came from Soesterberg, Holland, and Manston, UK.

Finally, the later F40s wer sent from Prestwick, UK. In fact, most of the Sabres were sent from Prestwick, and not from South Africa. Not any Spanish Sabre had previously fought in Korea. Sorry.

Back to C.5-103, it entered service on october, 1956. It was a F40. It was finally written off on december, 31st, 1972. USAF serial number 55-3995.

 

Best regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/18/2019 at 12:46 AM, Artie said:

Well, I'll try to answer all your questions.....

C5-103.  C.5 means "caza (fighter), type 5. The C4 (caza tipo 4 was the Messerschmitt Bf109 and all its progeny, from the C model to the later Buchón. 103 means the 103rd Sabre from the inventory.

131-5. It's the fifth plane within the 131 Figther Squadron, so you're right.  The Tiger badge belongs to the fighter wing, and not the Air base. The nose band is black, that's right. They represent the squadrons, not the Fighter Wings.

 

All the spanish Sabres were supplied from USAF stocks. We received a grand total of 270 Sabres, from different types:

18 F86F20, 156 F86F25, 32 F86F30 and 65 F86F40. All of them were updated to F40 standard as they passed they IRAN inspections at Getafe.

The first units came in 1954 from Landsthul Air Base, Federal Republic of Germany, 86Th Fighter Bomber Wing (USAF). Later, most of them came from Soesterberg, Holland, and Manston, UK.

Finally, the later F40s wer sent from Prestwick, UK. In fact, most of the Sabres were sent from Prestwick, and not from South Africa. Not any Spanish Sabre had previously fought in Korea. Sorry.

Back to C.5-103, it entered service on october, 1956. It was a F40. It was finally written off on december, 31st, 1972. USAF serial number 55-3995.

 

Best regards

Thanks Artie, again this detailed information is appreciated, especially confirming the colour of the nose band. If nothing else I have learnt a great deal about Spanish Sabres 👍

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just been through another lull but now back and building again.

 

Have put the three wing pieces together and cemented them to the fuselage. Just a little cutting to get them to sit exactly right, maybe a little filler needed on one wing/fuselage join but nothing drastic. Also both tail planes cemented on.

 

25thApr01

 

The same can be said for the lower fuselage, again it has gone together fairly well, maybe just a little sanding needed:

 

25thApr02

 

I took the advice given earlier and opened the nose up, that should look more realistic. Needs just a rub of fine sandpaper inside:

 

25thApr03

 

I should be able to get away with spraying the inside of the nose area matt black. The top of the nose undercarriage well sits slightly above the level of the air intake so I have started to remove some plastic there. The nose cone does sit well against the fuselage, for a kit this old I am impressed with the fit so far.

 

25thApr04

 

More to come soon 🙂

 

Michael

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...