Saudi Air Force Tornado Colours Question

[Skyhunter66]

Afternoon folks

 

I am next planning a Tornado GR1 RSAF (camo) and have a question about the camoflage colours. The kit is the Italeri 1:48 Gulf War Tornado and it gives the following colour call outs:

 

• FS 33448 sand - I can't seem to find a match for that with Tamiya or Mr Color?
• FS 30118 dark earth - was thinking of XF52 for this?
• FS34079 dark green - was thinking XF81 or Gunze 309 for this?

 

Any help on this appreciated. 

 

thanks

 

Chris 

[Selwyn]

The correct colours  were:

 

BS381c 241 Dark Green

BS381c 361 Light stone

Bs381c  350 Dark Earth

 

Selwyn

[Skyhunter66]

Thanks Selwyn - that Light Stone colour is going to be a tricky one to find looking at Paint4Models!

 

[nigelshipp]

Hi, these colours havent changed since ww2 so should be in most paint ranges, humbrol and hannants range certainly do it

 

Good hunting

[Selwyn]

4 hours ago, Skyhunter66 said:

Afternoon folks

 

I am next planning a Tornado GR1 RSAF (camo) and have a question about the camoflage colours. The kit is the Italeri 1:48 Gulf War Tornado and it gives the following colour call outs:

 

• FS 33448 sand - I can't seem to find a match for that with Tamiya or Mr Color?
• FS 30118 dark earth - was thinking of XF52 for this?
• FS34079 dark green - was thinking XF81 or Gunze 309 for this?

 

Any help on this appreciated. 

 

thanks

 

Chris 

Just thought that I should point out that Saudi tornado  has been sporting an overall grey scheme for quite a few years now?

 scroll down for Saudi tornado

 

Selwyn

[Sky dancer]

Some are still in the 3-colour camo. The last RSAF to leave Warton at the end of March was still in camo:-

 

https://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=174094

 

If you are on Twitter, this page provides some really good photos of RSAF fast jets you probably won't find anywhere else:-

 

https://twitter.com/MbKS15 

 

Check out the Tornado in the 88th National Memorial Day markings.....

[Skyhunter66]

Ok thanks for the help gents. I'm heading to the Hannants shop tomorrow and will check out some of their colours for this whilst I'm there

chris 

[Selwyn]

On 4/6/2019 at 12:58 AM, Sky dancer said:

Some are still in the 3-colour camo. The last RSAF to leave Warton at the end of March was still in camo:-

 

https://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=174094

 

If you are on Twitter, this page provides some really good photos of RSAF fast jets you probably won't find anywhere else:-

 

https://twitter.com/MbKS15 

 

Check out the Tornado in the 88th National Memorial Day markings.....

Not quite right, The warton jet that was used on development in the UK  was the last one (by far) in the three colour scheme.

 

Selwyn

[Slater]

It's a pity that they're changing to a grey finish. I thought the three-color desert camo was one of the most attractive paint schemes around.

[exdraken]

Not so bad, no?

Who will do decals???

[meindert]

Hi

 

(1) what would be the later scheme "grey" colours for Saudi IDS Tornado's?

 

 

(2) and what were Saudi Arabia Tornado ADV F3 grey colours?  

 

Many years ago I had this RAF Tornado ADV info:

 

Tornado F.mk.3 (F3) RAF scheme with toned down markings: 
upper & sides:  "Camouflage" grey BSC 626   
undersurfaces:  Light grey BSC 627. 

 

Tornado F.mk.3 (F3) RAF scheme introduced in 2005 with national markings changed back to full colour: 
Medium sea grey BSC 637 overall airframe 

 

Thank you for any Saudi Tornado colour info

[Jabba]

The RSAF Tornado F3s were painted the same as the early RAF scheme. I do think that they changed this in the time that they operated them for. The markings were full colour on the RSAF aircraft. 

 

As for the Grey on the GR aircraft I will have a look later when I get home.

[Jabba]

I cannot find any relevant information, but Milverse do a decal sheet for RSAF Tornados 72101 (past and present colour schemes), but I cannot get the pictures of the instructions to a size where I can read them properly. I have tried in google and other sites, but to no avail. Hope that this is of some help with your quest.

[DougC]

14 hours ago, Jabba said:

The RSAF Tornado F3s were painted the same as the early RAF scheme. I do think that they changed this in the time that they operated them for. The markings were full colour on the RSAF aircraft. 

 

The RSAF ADVs remained in their original Barley Grey / Light Aircraft Grey colours throughout their service life until retirement in 2006. They didn't change. 

Edited December 21, 2022 by DougC

[meindert]

hi Jabba, thank you for the Milliverse reference

 

and DougC for the colour suggestions. I was not aware that Barley grey was used on ADV Tornado's.

 

Still, I could not find any info about the Saudi grey Tornado IDS colours

 

 

 

 

[Selwyn]

10 hours ago, meindert said:

hi Jabba, thank you for the Milliverse reference

 

and DougC for the colour suggestions. I was not aware that Barley grey was used on ADV Tornado's.

 

Still, I could not find any info about the Saudi grey Tornado IDS colours

 

 

 

 

The prototype Barley grey colour became Camouflage grey BS 626 long before any Tornado F3 existed, it was camouflage grey in Phantom days.

 

Selwyn

[meindert]

On 12/21/2022 at 7:10 PM, Selwyn said:

The prototype Barley grey colour became Camouflage grey BS 626 long before any Tornado F3 existed, it was camouflage grey in Phantom days.

 

Selwyn

OK, that's explains my confusion with the Barley grey :-))  

 

Still, I am searching references for the grey colour used on the grey Saudi IDS Tornado's. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jabba]

The Milverse decal sheet has arrived at Hannants, so is winging its way to me. I will let you know what the instructions say when I get hold of them.

[scotthldr]

The problem I find with paint codes and modelling is that once you’ve spent many hour’s researching the matter and finally(if your lucky), finding the correct code is then to find a manufacturer that produces the paint in the correct shade. If paint codes aren’t a given, then I refer to the Mk1 eye ball. In this case I’ve came to the conclusion that the Grey used on the Saudi Tornadoes is or is damn near  FS36280, commonly referred to as Italian Sky Grey.

[Graham Boak]

The Tornado pattern was based upon the Saudi F-5s.  I know because I knew the designer who created it - the late Mike Hardman, and we were talking about it at the time, at his desk.  I would be very surprised if the colours were any different.

[Jabba]

On 24/12/2022 at 15:18, meindert said:

 

Still, I am searching references for the grey colour used on the grey Saudi IDS Tornado's. 

 

 

I got the Milverse sheet today and according to them the overall colour is Medium Sea Grey. 

 

A PM will be sent tomorrow.

[alt-92]

1 hour ago, Jabba said:

I got the Milverse sheet today and according to them the overall colour is Medium Sea Grey. 

FWIW: If you look up MSG in those tables like on ipmsstockholm.se that is listed as matching FS36270 (or 36440 in a pinch). 

But yeah... listing BSC as FS codes makes my skin crawl.

[CT7567]

On 12/25/2022 at 4:11 PM, Graham Boak said:

The Tornado pattern was based upon the Saudi F-5s.  I know because I knew the designer who created it - the late Mike Hardman, and we were talking about it at the time, at his desk.  I would be very surprised if the colours were any different.

The Tornado colours quoted by @Selwyn above are correct, obviously BS standards for UK-built IDS airframes.  Saudi F-5s were finished in a very similar scheme but to US color standards for rather self-evident reasons.  The "Asia Minor" scheme, aka "spinach and sand," uses FS 34079 dark green, FS 30140 dark earth, and FS 30400 tan. Unlike the Tornado's wraparound scheme, the F-5s had light gray FS 36622 undersides. The same scheme was worn by F-5s used by Iran and Jordan.

[Graham Boak]

The Warton paintshop used FS references for its paint for the Nigerian Jaguars, so I would not rule out them using the same FS standard paints for the Saudi Tornado as was present on the Saudi F-5.  However my knowledge doesn't run to yea or nay for that, only that the pattern was used as a guide when planning the Tornado pattern.  So if someone knows that BS standard British paints were used, that's good information.  However anyone basing their "knowledge" on the assumptions that "somebody said" or that the colours look like certain BS colours and BAe will have used BS colours, is on shaky ground.  Yes, I'm playing devil's advocate here.

[CT7567]

2 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

The Warton paintshop used FS references for its paint for the Nigerian Jaguars, so I would not rule out them using the same FS standard paints for the Saudi Tornado as was present on the Saudi F-5.  However my knowledge doesn't run to yea or nay for that, only that the pattern was used as a guide when planning the Tornado pattern.  So if someone knows that BS standard British paints were used, that's good information.  However anyone basing their "knowledge" on the assumptions that "somebody said" or that the colours look like certain BS colours and BAe will have used BS colours, is on shaky ground.  Yes, I'm playing devil's advocate here.

Interesting note on the Jaguars, not a subject I know much about offhand but it seems an odd choice considering Nigeria's inventory has never had much US-manufactured equipment.

 

As to the "devil's advocate" question/comment, I would argue that in actual fact most of what is "known" in this hobby is based on (at best) secondary or tertiary sources.  I'm inclined to apply Occam's Razor and lean more heavily on all available sources consistently quoting British Standard paint colours for the RSAF Tornados, having a government issued copy of T.O. 1-1-4 that specs the FS 595 Asia Minor colors (and a copy of FS595 itself with the paint samples), and the fact that RSAF F-5s "known" to be in that Asia Minor scheme in all photos I have ever seen published are clearly painted in colors that, while similar, differ from the scheme on the Tornados, over the possibility - which I readily concede as a possibility- that  the Tornados are actually wearing the same FS colors as the Tigers. 

 

To me the key phrase from your original post is "based upon the Saudi F-5s" (emphasis added).  The gorgeous scheme your late friend designed for the Tornado clearly adjusted the proportions and patterns of colours in a manner unique to the Tornado airframe. Based on the evidence available to me from quite a long distance from either the United or Saud kingdoms, I'm inclined to trust that prior research has correctly documented the colours were also adapted, using the nearest British Standard equivalents to their FS antecedent.