1/350 Nagato (1941) with Flyhawk

[73north]

I hear your pain on the god awful Flyhawk Instruction sheets - although I think they have got better lately -

I have bought the HMS Hood 1/350  Flyhawk super detail set - and I was not that impressed with the 4 page sheet - like your Nagato - a few photos showing where stuff goes and

a few instruction diagrams how to achieve the result -

I read the Flyhawk IJN Cruiser ( for Aoshima kits ) instructions sheets are just as bad as what you describe

 

I also have ditched the Flyhawk 0.5 inch AA Quadruple Gun Mountings that came with the Kit and bought the Tetra set instead -

 

When the HMS Repulse 1/350 super detail set - was used , it used instead - the

Infini 20mm Oerlikons ,Tetra 0.5 Quad guns and BigBlueBoy 2pdr pom poms ( the Pom Pom guns used dumb folded etch to represent the barrels - mental !

 

if you need better IJN light 25mm AA Guns - I highly recommend the Infini products

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Infini-1-350-IJN-Type96-25mm-Single-Mount-AA-Gun-set-30pcs/303211974913?hash=item4698d79101:g:uvMAAOSwAJFa1BuA

They do Single Mountings. Twin Mounts and Triple AA Mounts - you can buy them separate

Edited September 13, 2019 by 73north

[calistan]

On 9/13/2019 at 10:21 PM, 73north said:

I hear your pain on the god awful Flyhawk Instruction sheets - although I think they have got better lately -

I have bought the HMS Hood 1/350  Flyhawk super detail set - and I was not that impressed with the 4 page sheet - like your Nagato - a few photos showing where stuff goes and a few instruction diagrams how to achieve the result - I read the Flyhawk IJN Cruiser ( for Aoshima kits ) instructions sheets are just as bad as what you describe

...

if you need better IJN light 25mm AA Guns - I highly recommend the Infini products

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Infini-1-350-IJN-Type96-25mm-Single-Mount-AA-Gun-set-30pcs/303211974913?hash=item4698d79101:g:uvMAAOSwAJFa1BuA

They do Single Mountings. Twin Mounts and Triple AA Mounts - you can buy them separate

I've actually got loads of those Infini 25mm guns left over from the Yukikaze I did last year. I managed to make one of the triple versions, thought it was way too hard (it was the first ship model I'd made, a bit ambitious) and just used the plastic kit guns instead.

 

I don't mind the Flyhawk versions. The only problem was the resin receiver parts were meant to have tiny holes for the barrels but most of them weren't open due to low quality molding, so I had to file the pins off the end of the barrels and glue them flush.

 

The instructions, though... Yikes. Mine has 40-odd tiny pages, with multiple views of the same part that you have to look at and guess which order it should be constructed. A lot of parts aren't mentioned in any of the pics. Have a look at this page below. In the top right there are two parts (G7 and G11) that are drawn on top of a photo with no clue as to where they might actually go. Any ideas?

 

[73north]

My best help I can give is say look at the expanded details from the Pontos Model for the Nagato from here - that might you help later in the build

Good news is that I can offer a clue -

I tried for over an hour looking online - and my money was they were fitted to the upper yard arm - on the right and left yard arms -

 

se the red arrows on the Lion Roar instruction sheet for the Nagato 1/350 AND Yellow arrows on the Nagato Model that is completed online

 

 

 

https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/products/pontos-35029f1-1-350-ijn-nagato-1941-detail-up-set?_pos=1&_sid=211aa0417&_ss=r -

 

This has the expanded Views of pontos instructions sheet that will help you , greatly later

 

however , if that doesn't work try - try Ship Model Forum ( I am there as 73north )

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=32026&start=400 - calling all Nagato Fans

 

and ask for help from Dan Kaplan - he's the resident expert on the IJN - I am more an expert of the Royal navy and Kriegsmarine

( although I am well-read on the IJN )

 

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by 73north

[calistan]

18 hours ago, 73north said:

My best help I can give is say look at the expanded details from the Pontos Model for the Nagato from here - that might you help later in the build

Good news is that I can offer a clue -

I tried for over an hour looking online - and my money was they were fitted to the upper yard arm - on the right and left yard arms -

Fantastic, thanks ever so much for looking! That's incredibly helpful. Comparing the Lion Roar instructions, I think those bits on the upper arm are tiny lanterns. Mine has them too. The mystery pieces are comparatively large, and they dwarf all of the delicate little things elsewhere on the mast. Here's a close-up in extreme dust-o-vision. It's a strange thing, I can't see anything similar on the other PE sets.

 

 

The Pontos instructions show where to place the additional paravanes, which are supplied in the Flyhawk set but not shown in any pictures. I think if I hadn't been so eager to pull the trigger on a snap Ebay sale, and knowing what I know now, I'd have gone for the Pontos in the first place. The Flyhawk girders under the pagoda decks do look nice but the extra thickness from the PE baseplates made it not fit together properly. A lot of filing and filling was required.

[73north]

Might be an idea not to fit the 2 parts .

And just move on to other sections .

 

Only an opinion but i think Flyhwwks earlier etch sets were less good than the later stuff they have produced 

 ( - my Repulse set was world class and the instructions were clear )

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Just a passing thought, but that picture of Mitsuo ’s build appears to show two shapes that look a bit like navigation shapes (e.g the “ball” to denote a ship at anchor, which is a pair of interlocked flat circles in real life).  They look as thought they’re suspended from halyards on the mainmast - a red-ish one just by the tail of one of 73North’s arrows, and a (?) green-one on the opposite side of the mast.

 

Might your PE thing be a fold-up “ball”?  It looks about right, though I have not the foggiest idea why a Japanese warship would be flying one of those (even at anchor that’s the wrong place for it).  Tactical signal?

 

P.S. looking again on a bigger monitor, Mitsuo’s green thingy looks like the ball, and the other side is square-ish ... which looks like the shapes in the instructions.  

Edited September 19, 2019 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[calistan]

17 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Just a passing thought, but that picture of Mitsuo ’s build appears to show two shapes that look a bit like navigation shapes (e.g the “ball” to denote a ship at anchor, which is a pair of interlocked flat circles in real life).  They look as thought they’re suspended from halyards on the mainmast - a red-ish one just by the tail of one of 73North’s arrows, and a (?) green-one on the opposite side of the mast.

Wow, well spotted! Mitsuo's PE kit is different from mine, so it might not be just a random Flyhawk thing. I'll have a look to see if I can find anything similar in photos.

[calistan]

A little bit more progress. Finally glued the decks to the hull. There are some gaps round the edges that I've started to fill but I don't think it will be too noticeable once the railings are in place. Completed the turrets and gave them a bit of shading and weathering, so I dry fitted them along with the pagoda to see what it will look like. Very busy, I think. This must have been an intimidating ship in its day.

 

 

Next up I'm going to have a crack at the flight deck. That could potentially be the fiddliest part so far, since the grey PE tracks, turntables and other fittings will need to be painted before attaching to the brown deck. Not to mention the aircraft - maybe I could imagine they've all flown off on a secret mission.

[calistan]

Well, I got the flight deck done, bar the aircraft, and have started on a few little things that have been blocking me from moving onto other little things.

 

^ Flight deck. Not as bad as I'd feared. The rails look good. There's actually a sort of texture on the brown surface that hasn't shown up very well in the picture (a couple of layers of thin black oil wash). The little trolley things are just resting there, they'll be bucking under the weight of aircraft one day. The PE kit has spare parts to make a couple more, so I might add those as well.

 

^ I've added all of the railings and a few platforms and things like that where I can, so I can paint them before any superstructure goes on. I'm considering adding cranes and lifeboat hoists as well, but they're so flimsy I suspect they'll only get knocked off. The hull is screwed to its wooden base now, so that should help stop it getting bashed around. It's a gamble...

The bits that I snipped off on the unfinished bit of the lower deck - locator pins for a couple of casemate guns - are where the flight deck will go, but it wouldn't slide into place with the upper deck glued down. The instructions dictate putting all the deck pieces down in a precise sequence, which would have precluded me doing the flight deck separately. There's a similar problem for the funnel structure, but nothing that can't be fixed with a pair of nippers.

 

^ One of the cranes I was thinking of fitting before painting the rest of the deck. The top part is an I-beam made from three slivers of brass about 0.5 cm long. Chances of it surviving when I have to reach around it to glue parts down or peel off masking tape are... slim.

 

^ Casemate gun parts lined up for painting. Those will go on after the upper hull is completely painted and de-masked, at which point I can almost smell the finishing line (or perhaps that's just Mr Color paint thinner).

 

^ Finally, obligatory Flyhawk whinge. Look at that! Those little brass bollards, whatever they're called. They're supposed to have two pieces of PE on them as well - a curved bit on the side and a round one on the top, but I'm glad I did a test fit before I went ahead and made up all 50-odd of them. The pins are way too small for the holes in the deck (see the kit part, left) so they just fall through. The only place they do fit is where they mount to a PE base rather than directly to the plastic, but that's only in three or four places anyway.

Edited October 9, 2019 by calistan

[73north]

If it helps you - there are far superior Brass parts out there for you - for my money , you are actually looking at Mushroom Vents - and you can get one part machined ones from Alliance Modelworks

 

and if you want to make your life easier - https://store.spruebrothers.com/product_p/amwnw35077.htm show what I am talking about

 

Alliance Modelworks do several types - I have used them before , on HMS Repulse and they worked a treat  , the sample you show is NOT a Bollard

 

give you an idea what they are like when fitted - see below

 

if you want to see what Bollards are like -

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/273875115455?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=273875115455&targetid=800003223996&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=1505503898&mkgroupid=59698560202&rlsatarget=pla-800003223996&abcId=1139606&merchantid=6995734&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrpvD1tiR5QIVDEPTCh0J1ws4EAQYBCABEgLChfD_BwE

Edited October 10, 2019 by 73north

[calistan]

On 10/10/2019 at 1:16 PM, 73north said:

If it helps you - there are far superior Brass parts out there for you - for my money , you are actually looking at Mushroom Vents - and you can get one part machined ones from Alliance Modelworks

Thanks for the tip, it's a good feeling to be actually learning things about ships while I'm making this model. I assume they needed vents so the mushroom farms below decks wouldn't get too humid.

I opted to use the kit mushroom vents, since to my eyes their main benefit on the model is to provide a bit of contrast and texture to the deck. Plus I already have dozens of them ready to go.

 

^ Check this out. I call them nano-shrooms. They were in the Flyhawk set and they replace some little nubs I'd forgotten I sliced off the deck right at the beginning. I didn't know if I'd be able to use them, but I just got a set of Trumpeter's needle-point tweezers (four for £8, a bargain) so I can actually pick them up now. I stuck about 20 of them to a glue dot to paint them. With the naked eye they look super fine, you can't tell they're not quite standing up at the same angle. Hope they stay put.

 

^ The ship's washing line! I bought the tweezers to help pick tiny fibres off the railings, as I had a bit of a dust nightmare after spraying those. I hadn't noticed that the old box I was using as a spray booth had dust in the corners, and the airbrush kicked it up to settle on my freshly painted brass. Naked eye - invisible. Macro photo - quite annoying.

[73north]

" I opted to use the kit mushroom vents, since to my eyes their main benefit on the model is to provide a bit of contrast and texture to the deck. Plus I already have dozens of them ready to go. "

 

don't blame you , when you have paid good money , the Vents should be good to go - one question - did Fly hawk give you Bollards with the set ?

 

anyway - lovely work on the Model

 

[calistan]

3 hours ago, 73north said:

don't blame you , when you have paid good money , the Vents should be good to go - one question - did Fly hawk give you Bollards with the set ?

 

anyway - lovely work on the Model

 

Thank you, and yes - assuming I now know what bollards are, I believe Flyhawk provided them. There are two pairs of tiny ones in the second pic above, right at the pointy end, and there were 18 of the larger ones that you can see between the anchor chain holes.

 

I also bought some Flyhawk brass strips for the flight deck, thinking I could apply them after painting it, but they're very flimsy and too hard to stick on straight after cutting. Plus I think they'd look way too prominent - scaled up I estimate they'd be 20cm wide, which surely can't be right.

 

^ Lack of foresight here. Because I'm using the brass flight deck but not the wooden deck stickers, there's a bit of a lip where these pieces of deck meet. I'm having to shim half of the rear bridge structure where it overhangs and won't sit flush. Almost done with that now, a double thickness of plasticard seems about right. The other option would have been to cut out a piece of the brass deck, which probably would have been a disaster.

[javlin]

On 5/1/2019 at 5:42 PM, calistan said:

Hull primed in white and pre-weathered in splotchy black. I had considered getting rid of those deep grid lines all along the torpedo bulge, but I've grown to like them. They should be good for filling with rust, oil and sea gunk. Also, the one at this link is probably my favourite Nagato I've seen on the internet, and that guy left the grid lines intact. (somebody else's amazing Nagato > http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/bb/ijn/Nagato-350-LKS)

 

 

Next, a bit more of the funnel. I thought the Flyhawk kit had supplied the wrong length ladders for the upper walkway, so in a previous pic I'd used some generic ladders from elsewhere. Turns out I was just misreading Flyhawk's dreadful instruction book, so the correct ladders (with folding steps) are installed now. So shiny! Also, doesn't it look like a friendly robot holding up all that brass?

 

 

 

You do some pretty/nice metal work very clean/precise Kevin

[calistan]

So I've got pretty much all of the superstructure attached now, I've started adding a layer of weathering with black oil paint and once I'm happy with that I'll seal it again with Pledge and make a final pass. Still haven't done the planes and boats, I'm really not looking forward to those. Everything else has been fun though!

 

^ The high angle gun control towers. I was attaching the little PE bridge to one of them and dropped it from the tweezers, and that was the end of it. It's big enough not to vanish into the carpet, and I spent ages looking, but it did have superglue on one end so it could have stuck somewhere on the way down. I even checked myself in the mirror to see if it was attached to my clothes. Anyway, it's gone but I managed to make something similar out of offcuts. It will be hard to notice when it's all together. (original version on the left, my attempt on the right).

 

^ That's my replacement in situ. The ship is so busy, I don't think it will stand out too badly.

 

^ At this magnification the harsh lighting exposes some nasty glue seams around the edges of the gun platforms. I don't think I'll be able to get rid of that now, maybe I could add some netting or canvas to cover it.

The searchlight platforms are currently empty because the two-piece Flyhawk resin ones don't actually fit together. There's a big gap between the support arms and the body of the light. Very poor. I've ordered some nicer ones from Veteran Models.

 

^ Guns in place on the back end. I think the deck details are complete here. I still need to do the anchor chains, so I haven't added the forward guns yet as they'll get in the way. I need to figure out how to do more flattering lighting when I take pictures of the finished thing.

[beefy66]

Really impressive and delicate work 👍🏻

 

beefy,

[ArnoldAmbrose]

15 hours ago, calistan said:

It will be hard to notice when it's all together. (original version on the left, my attempt on the right).

Gidday Calistan, I don't think the difference will be noticed at all, because they are on either side of a structure and unlikely to be seen simultaneously. I don't think I'd have known if you hadn't pointed out the difference. It is certainly an intricate model you have done, you are making me drool with envy over my keyboard! Top job. 👍 Regards, Jeff.

[calistan]

This possibly doesn't merit an update, but I just got the replacement searchlights from Veteran Models and wanted to highlight them as they're really intricate pieces of resin moulding and currently my favourite things on the ship. I think I must have thrown the previous ones away, but it would have been interesting to compare them.

The Flyhawk ones didn't fit together at all, and the kit plastic ones are done in two halves so they'd end up with a seam down the middle. The new ones are two main pieces , plus a couple of PE adjustment wheels, PE cross-shaped cover, clear resin lens and tiny resin spike for the centre. Hurrah for the small details.

 

[AndyPG]

Hi Calistan,

Great work with this epic amount of PE.

Your build looks beautiful.

 

I completely agree with your earlier observations.

I think some PE manufacturers are loosing the plot a little.

Don't get me wrong, I love using PE and enjoy the additional detail it offers by way of fine parts.

What I do find frustrating is that, sometimes, a large percentage of the PE pack consists of large replacement deck sheet parts and associated hatches which, when complete, actually offer negligible or no enhancement over the stock kit part.

I have even had a couple of instances when a PE part was simply inferior to the stock kit part.

 

Looks like you're on the home straight so hang in there.

 

Andy.

 

[73north]

Great work so far - I agree some Photo-etch parts don't make much improvement -

and also the resin aftermarket parts like Binoculars , Search Light and Tracking Range finder scopes , add a big improvement to a Model ( and often are missing from some aftermarket sets )

[calistan]

2 hours ago, AndyPG said:

What I do find frustrating is that, sometimes, a large percentage of the PE pack consists of large replacement deck sheet parts and associated hatches which, when complete, actually offer negligible or no enhancement over the stock kit part.

I think I'm happy enough with the actual photo etch, it's very good in this particular set. The only thing I've added that doesn't look at least a little bit better than what was on the kit is the replacement flight deck - really wish I hadn't stuck that on there, as it looks exactly the same as the plastic did, but without the wooden deck sticker it throws off the alignment of the mast. That's my fault. I now know exactly what I'd do if I was ever to make this kit again, but what's the point in that?

 

Parts where I've had to file off significant amounts of plastic to attach the PE, like on the gun platforms near the funnel, look a bit rougher than I'd like. I would use a glue that's easier to clean up rather than CA for that sort of thing in future. I would also spend the extra and get the Pontos detail kit instead, since I've had to discard a lot of Flyhawk stuff - 4x AA guns and 6x searchlights (that was around 30 quid to replace them all), dozens of mushroom vents that didn't fit, the wooden deck that I never wanted... I also had to make a part that my detail set didn't include (I used paper soaked in CA in the end, plus an old ladder for the windows) but then that was actually fun.

[Courageous]

5 hours ago, calistan said:

replacement searchlights

Worthy of an update me thinks, they look great. I agree, PE has it's place but not everywhere.

 

Stuart

[calistan]

Finally got started on the ship's boats. They're resin with a surprising amount of photo etch for such small things. A couple of the larger ones have optional resin parts to represent canvas covers or I can show the metal cages underneath, and there's total of 104 oars of various sizes, because you can never have too many oars.

 

^ Stage 1 - sprayed the wooden parts with deck tan, then masked them off.

 

^ Stage 2 - outer parts have been sprayed grey, a wash of umber oil paint applied to the wood, and... oh, what's this? I didn't know such a thing was possible, but these resin boats aren't a consistent size, so the PE seating parts don't fit. Top one is the best of the bunch, the middle one shows how far the PE overhangs on most of the others, and the bottom one I've had to file away the back part to get it to fit.

 

^ That's how much I have to trim off the back, plus the sides need to be narrowed to fit the curve of the boat. Nice plank details though.

[mick]

excellent work

[ArnoldAmbrose]

12 hours ago, calistan said:

Nice plank details though.

Gidday Calistan, I agree there. I think the boats look good when you've finished with them, and will be worth the effort, with someone of your skill. Regards, Jeff.