mirageiv Posted June 12, 2019 Author Share Posted June 12, 2019 Hi Terry, most Revell enamels I've found are fine but their matt enamel greys (I can't spray the water based acrylic versions with any success at all), like 79 blaugrau or 77 'Basaltgrau' (which I used in the mix) can do this with gloss clear. I've not used MRP but from what I've been told they are super thin so you can repaint something many times before details start being degraded, hmm I'll think about it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickyrich Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 that's a shame it didn't quite work.....I reckon you'd have had to go down to 90-95% thinner to paint to not loose any detail but still change the colour. Don't know if Revell can go that far, Tamiya can with the Yellowish Lid Lacquer Thinners (avoid the orange Lid stuff like the plague!!). mmm it's too late now but Mr. Paint would have been perfect for this.....though you may have had to mix the colours, but they look to have most of them now. You really have to try this stuff, it's truly amazing, it's so thin but you can get solid colours and not loose details. I think you saw my F-14D, it's all painted with Mr. Paint, the top section has at least 25 coats of paint from primer up (maybe 30 in spots including clear coats). Ok I just took this one, here maybe 20-25 coats in total. (oh and the wings just about to fall out as well!!!) It's hard to see in these photo's but there's no detail lost...or so very little. All the rivets as still visible and if you know the Tamiya F-14's they're very fine to start with. That said she still looks great in the photo's and given that 99% of those viewing won't have calibrated monitors or be able to view the model in ultra high resolution, I think you may just have to accept where you're at. Stripping back is a huge decision, I know myself I can be super critical of my own builds, but sometimes you just have to let it go. BUT!!! If you do go that way I'd go for the Mr. Paint stuff, I know you won't regret it!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted June 12, 2019 Author Share Posted June 12, 2019 (edited) Nice post Rich 25 layers of paint and it still looks like a normal paint job with other paints (crisper even), really very impressive (the F-14D also!) In the not too distant future (maybe early next year) I'm hoping to have a new dedicated modelling area, well whole new set up (new AB, spray booth etc...) where I probs will go for a good chunk of MRP and retire a lot of my old paints. This will be my last model until then so I'm just kinda using what I have for now if that makes sense before going 'all in'. I can be supercritical of colours on my models, for me it is the most important part and gives 'the look' you think of when you first start your build so if I have to strip it to get there so be it, heck I've already removed most of the paint now so no biggie . BTW if you ever have to strip one again I recommend Mr.Color thinners or the Levelling thinners for this job, it doesn't harm the plastic or clear parts (they may need a gentle polish back up) and you can 'wipe' away the paint after brushing some thinner on, it seems a lot nicer to use than oven cleaner or whatever harsher stuff is out there. Edited June 12, 2019 by mirageiv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelling minion Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 I am really sorry to hear about the paint problems David, she was looking really good and to have to strip the paint off is a very hard decision and one I know you will not have made lightly. I'm sure that whichever paint you choose to replace it with will turn out brilliantly, as usual. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Never tried MRP but judging by what I hear, and @trickyrich's statements above, I need to try it! Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helios16v Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Yeah, he's kinda evil like that. Kinda like a pusher...but the products he's pushing happen to be legal. "Here, just have a little taste. You'll be back for more...trust me." 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickyrich Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 Pssst...... have I got a deal for you!! On 6/13/2019 at 1:31 AM, Terry1954 said: Never tried MRP but judging by what I hear, and @trickyrich's statements above, I need to try it! Terry you won't regret trying them, they are amazing. Just a little bit different to use, but if you've used Alclad paints or super thinned stuff then you'll have no trouble at all. Just try one colour first to see how you like it.....it'll be all over after that, you'll be hooked! Gosh I do sound like a dealer! On 6/13/2019 at 12:58 AM, mirageiv said: Nice post Rich 25 layers of paint and it still looks like a normal paint job with other paints (crisper even), really very impressive (the F-14D also!) In the not too distant future (maybe early next year) I'm hoping to have a new dedicated modelling area, well whole new set up (new AB, spray booth etc...) where I probs will go for a good chunk of MRP and retire a lot of my old paints. This will be my last model until then so I'm just kinda using what I have for now if that makes sense before going 'all in'. I can be supercritical of colours on my models, for me it is the most important part and gives 'the look' you think of when you first start your build so if I have to strip it to get there so be it, heck I've already removed most of the paint now so no biggie . BTW if you ever have to strip one again I recommend Mr.Color thinners or the Levelling thinners for this job, it doesn't harm the plastic or clear parts (they may need a gentle polish back up) and you can 'wipe' away the paint after brushing some thinner on, it seems a lot nicer to use than oven cleaner or whatever harsher stuff is out there. I know exactly what you mean, if something bugs you you just can't leave it alone. I don't have any trouble at all in removing paint......even when I don't want to! Looking forward to following your "correction" process. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Law Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 It doesn't look that bad to me. The real plane is quite dark anyway. If you used matt coat on these jets that will lighten it anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franky boy Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Just caught with your build David. Sorry to see the issue with the darkening. Fair play to you for carrying on with it. If that was me it would probably have been sitting in the shelf of doom by now or in the bin. A second here for MRP paints although I've only had one go with them. The new Hataka orange line are also very nice too. James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) It was a close call to shelve it for a few weeks James but I did that with my last one and two years later it was still there, not this time! Quickly going over old ground to me the photo in the last post doesn't look so bad, this one is more like how dark it really got and why I bothered to strip it (it was darker still in real life), pretty much Extra Dark Sea Grey opposed to the lighter Basaltgrau. I took the camera mask off btw, really pleased how it looked behind the oval window. Anyhow the model is now paint free, Unintentionally, I now get the fun of painting two models after only build one! I'm not sure I'll finish it in the deadline tbh, there are about two trillion Astra decals to apply and I have to repaint it yet, I'll give it a go however! Thanks for looking, David Edited June 20, 2019 by mirageiv 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Thats a really nice removal job. What did you use? Terry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 Thanks Terry, I used Mr.Color Lacquer thinners. It works very well for removing enamels and lacquer based acrylics like Tamiya, Mr.Hobby etc but importantly doesn't damage the plastic or clear parts. I apply a generous amount with a brush on selected areas, a wing for example, it soaks in, then reapply another layer and then the paint starts to wrinkle. With enamels after it begins to wrinkle you can then just 'pull off' the paint as a 'skin' with a brush, sort of like a layer of skin on top of cooled milk after it has been warmed. Any little bits still left are removed easily with a cotton bud soaked in the thinner and rubbed on the spot to take it off too, also this was done around the canopy frames to have control in preventing anything getting in and under the canopies. I did polish the canopies back up to get a proper shine but no crazing or clouding happens with the thinner. Some paints require heavier layers of neat thinner to get them to come off, the Colorcoats enamel for example on the tip tanks was a bit difficult to remove, very tough paint it seems, but every other type I've tried (Xtracolor, Humbrol, Revell, Tamiya, Mr.Hobby, Alclad IIRC) comes off pretty easily without making a huge mess. There probs are dedicated paint removers out there but this these thinners work just great in my experience. David 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickyrich Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 gee those thinners did work a treat! Do you know if it affects any filler work? I may get to try that method out soonish. I have some Mr. Paint Thinners. I've managed to find some replacement decals for "Goldmember" (my 50th Anniv RNZAF TA-4K), so it'll strip off the failed paintwork and start again. The final clear coat failed and the paint and decals underneath went all funny and soft! Plus I was using my old airbrush setup for that build, the new one will work much better. ...correction, you meant Mr. Hobby, that stuff I've got eats paint...plastic....and just about anything else 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted June 22, 2019 Author Share Posted June 22, 2019 I only use superglue , Mr. surfacer and milliput as fillers where the thinner will remove the surfacer if you put a good amount on and let it soak into the paint. It probably will remove other fillers a bit like Tamiya etc..but I'm not sure, it doesn't completely remove them but for a super smooth surface you might need to re apply. I guess stripping a model is never fuss free and requires some correction but it gets the paint off using them What paint and clear coat did you use to for your TA-4K? I found going through the barrier of Aqua gloss tougher than normal on this build as I usually use Tamiya clear or Future and those have easily come off. Yes I think the correct title is confusingly 'Mr Hobby, Mr Color thinners 250ml', the non retarding version of the levelling thinner. I've used levelling thinner too which gives you a little more time to remove the paint as it keeps it wetter for longer naturally. Meanwhile I've remasked and primed everything ready to start paint 2.0! David 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickyrich Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 I don't have any of that stuff, I've almost stripped my TA-4K, I find the odour free over cleaner from a aerosol can is awesome at removing paint mostly, has no affect at all on plastic which is great. Can't remember the clear I used, I have a feeling it was the Tamiya stuff, that and the decals we're quite hard to remove. Only on slight mishap! Was cleaning out the resin tanks in lacquer thinners and also had a jar of isopropyl next to it.......got distracted came back and dumped the wheel covers and slats...........in the wrong jar!!! I sort of saved them in time but it's not pretty! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelling minion Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 Great job on the paint removal David, a real shame that you had to do it but at least you have done it well. I actually like how she looks without the paint, you have some nicely pre-shaded panel lines and rivets! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 Thanks chaps, I got lucky to save it! Rich that specific oven cleaner sounds a good shout too, although I hope we both don't have to use paint removers again! Yes Craig it was if I had given the model an oil wash! I'm attempting to build and paint the model like this exact jet in the linked photos: http://www.916-starfighter.de/Large/2433.htm and http://www.916-starfighter.de/Large/Album/a2433C.htm And this is about as close as I think I'll ever be able to do it personally to the heavily faded and patchy looking airframe, I used AK 'Real Color' for the top (mixed with a bit of blue as straight RAL 7012 was a bit too grey or me) and nose (RAL 7035), quite nice paints actually now I've thinned them correctly, pretty much indifferent to Tamiya acrylics imho. The underside was sprayed with my own mix (mainly Tamiya matt aluminium and Gunze light aircraft grey) and the tip tanks after a white-yellow base with Colorcoats RAL 2005 luminous orange (it was more accurate than AK's version to me but also AK real color just refused to cover to any opacity.) I also slightly faded them at the top with some yellow coming through for scale as straight solid RAL 2005 just looked too much compared to my prior paint job. The undersides are looking way too clean by comparison but I'll stick to the original plan of fading and weathering them after the decals go on, The colours are a little off in the photos tbh so don't take them as exact but I'm much happier with the paint job than the previous one in the flesh, worth the strip for sure. I'll give it a gloss layer this evening in prep for the decal marathon, the DACO decals are amazing but it is hard remaining sane applying them! Thanks for looking, hmm maybe I might just be able to squeeze it in before the GB ends. David 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelling minion Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 David that looks excellent! I really like the weathered look you have given her, and it really does look exactly like the pictures in your links. And I think your idea to slightly fade the top of the tip tanks is the right one. I know that you have an awful lot of decals to apply but hopefully you will get them done on time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickyrich Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 WOW!!! the faded finish looks perfect, awesome job!! Do you think the clear coats will affect the colours much? The gloss I would think would but the flat should bring it back. I have the same Daco set in my stash, after seeing your work I'm too scared to use it as I don't think I could do it justice!! you had me going with the 3D marking on the side for a bit! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, modelling minion said: David that looks excellent! I really like the weathered look you have given her, and it really does look exactly like the pictures in your links. And I think your idea to slightly fade the top of the tip tanks is the right one. I know that you have an awful lot of decals to apply but hopefully you will get them done on time. Thank you Craig, glad you like it! I've used these decals so many times now I almost know where a lot should go by memory (hmm that is probs..no..definitely a bit worrying!) so hopefully it will speed things up here applying quite a few at a time. 50 minutes ago, trickyrich said: WOW!!! the faded finish looks perfect, awesome job!! Do you think the clear coats will affect the colours much? The gloss I would think would but the flat should bring it back. I have the same Daco set in my stash, after seeing your work I'm too scared to use it as I don't think I could do it justice!! you had me going with the 3D marking on the side for a bit! Cheers Rich! Yep they always do for me but I've tried to exaggerate the shading in the hope that the subsequent varnish layers renders it how I want it in the end. My pictures really aren't great tbh at conveying the colours and shading at all like I see it (taken in pretty poor natural light here in the UK today) as in the flesh it is more 'overdone' than what is shown here with different colours to my eye. I've also used Tamiya X-22 gloss + levelling thinner which in comparison to Aqua Gloss or Future etc.. in my experience affects shading and colour shifts the least, well I've put the gloss on now and most of it is still there which is pleasing. I can always do some more post shading later to further break it up if needed, but the big plus is it hasn't darkened much either which is a win compared to the previous effort! Case in point on the colours my camera shows are below, both in poor light but quite different and not at all what it looks like in person oddly enough (I guess you really can never trust photos as gospel for colour matching) Is it grey? Or blue? Rich stop being modest, I'm sure when you tackle your F-104 with the DACO set it will be another wonder model ! Kinetic are bringing out a new kit also which I'm sure could produce another level of F-104 when combined with some of the DACO details. In fact this could probably be my last Hasegawa F-104 model if the Kinetic kit is as good as I looks it could be. Oh yeah the '3D' decal haha, I used it to help gauge if the colours/contrasts looked ok with some sort of marking 'applied' (blu-tack), it helps me I find as I do struggle with colour matching tbh. Anyways thanks for the nice words guys, David Edited June 26, 2019 by mirageiv 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Callahan Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 I like your 104 already, but the beige antenna cover behind the cockpit could be a bit darker, for my taste 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Nice paintwork again! Glad you are more satisfied this time around! Hope I will NEVER have to stripp one back to base.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 46 minutes ago, Harry Callahan said: I like your 104 already, but the beige antenna cover behind the cockpit could be a bit darker, for my taste Thank you Werner, yes I agree it does need be be darker and more weathering. After I place the decals I plan to weather these sort of areas with oils and thin grey airbrushed like I did here, 20 minutes ago, exdraken said: Nice paintwork again! Glad you are more satisfied this time around! Hope I will NEVER have to stripp one back to base.... Cheers Werner! I hope so too! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) Tamiya X22 + Levelling thinner applied to hopefully a good enough shine but without reducing the weathering too much, ready for a decal Marathon Sunday! Edited June 28, 2019 by mirageiv 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted July 7, 2019 Author Share Posted July 7, 2019 (edited) Hi guys Well it took most of the week to apply the decals (there were several hundred.) I also gave the model an oil panel wash and now it needs some more oil streaking/staining etc..then I can apply the final satin varnish. The '33' of the '24+33' code on the port side fuselage is slightly offset because of the camera window. Also the decals on the dayglo parts of the fuel tanks were really very stark and needed to be blended in with some more layers of yellow and dayglo, the stencils here look really quite faded on the real aircraft but I will re apply the white ones as they are quite distinct. The 'Rescue' marking panel decal did not quite match up to the kit engraved line unfortunately but if I applied it to match this profile the whole decal would have been set at a strange angle. I faded the stencils in slightly on the top and bottom with very thinned layers of the base colour and then dirtied up the bottom silver with some very thinned greys sprayed in various areas. I still need to paint the gear bays yet. Overall it is looking like this atm, Still plenty to do, in fact I have not done so much on any other parts of the model than what is shown here so I'm pretty certain I won't make the deadline unfortunately! I'll keep updating the thread which should only be 1-2 last updates as I hope to finish it by this coming weekend as I'm pretty busy after that. Thanks so much for looking and the interest/comments shown in the build and to Rich and Col for running another great one, cheers everyone! I'll checkout the gallery later on, it will be a difficult choice I think in this GB! David Edited July 7, 2019 by mirageiv 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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