JayBee Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 You´re welcome David. Plz send me your e-mail adress via PM, I have some helpfull images for you. :) Kind regards, Jürgen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted May 1, 2019 Author Share Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) After a lot of help from BM member JayBee ^ I have managed to get some more done on this. The Side Oblique Camera (SOC) for the port fuselage 'window' was indeed not provided by the Daco update set but an incorrect smaller type that is located in the under fuselage faring. Using this pic you can see what the lens of the larger SOC looks like through the window, and in this pic the camera provided by Daco that I was originally going to use, Hmm not quite right imo! I've made the basis of a new one to represent the SOC, the KS-87B is quite a large camera as used in the RF-4E with a long lens. I cut out the Daco camera from the rectangular housing, trying to keep things simple and made a new lens. The lens should extend further back into the housing as it is quite long in reality however when the interior is painted black and mounted with the small oval window masked correctly, only the very front will be visible when looking at the model so I didn't bother doing more than this. I've roughly cut out a small disc of camera film to show what I'm planning on doing. I think it looks quite convincing as the basis of the lens (not sure yet though!), after I have painted things I'll then build up a rounded glass lens with some thick Klear or Gauzy Glass agent on top of this small disc to make it more convincing. Also a matt black backing will be done to stop any see through problems, again when its all mounted you really won't see anything bar the lens face itself like in the first pic of this post. A rough test fit. I've blended the window in with 'Zap a Gap' , it needs the rectangular panel scribing and polishing inside and out yet, I think maybe a thin layer of Klear also to stop any glue fogging. For the oval window I will simply use a mask cut from one of my scribing templates which fits very well, this is a little more simple than reality but I dare not try to scribe the correct oval shape on the clear panel itself as one mistake and I'm stuffed, cannot fill and do over on clear parts! I've noticed on quite a few F-104 pics that some panels around the rear fuselage show a ribbed texture I guess due to engine heating. I have thought about attempting this for a while but was unsure until I saw a 1/32 F-104 build online that did it really well. It looks a little exaggerated atm, with a thin layer of paint/Mr.Surfacer it becomes much more subtle, still I'll refine it and maybe reduce it if it looks too obvious later on when I get some more primer on, very easy to overdo it probably! This sanding and messing around also resulted in a lot of the rear rivets being filled, then re-adding some very fine ones. I'm using references from the Daco book among others and some pics they are quite visible, very subtle but visible so I thought why not add some, they won't hold a wash or anything, in fact after paint and varnishes they will hardly be visible let alone hold a wash which I quite like I think, the '3D texture' it gives the model. Well I'm experimenting with it anyway, I'll only really see if it works in the end. I also scribed the panels on the vertical stab, they were raised on the kit as in reality (I think) but maybe a bit overdone when underneath the decals that will go here. A few more really fine ones on the intakes and fuselage sides (sorry for the crappy blurry pic), I'll wait until some primer is on before I deicide whether to keep them or not. Because I ended up filling a lot of the rivets on the rear fuselage with the sanding there, it would look odd leaving them on the wings also so I have begun to fill those too (not fun!). I'm saving my Daco wings for some special scheme F-104s, I'm not against the rivets on the Hasegawa kit tbh like some modellers are, but for a uniform model I guess they should be filled now. I've seen a few ways online of doing this with tippex, Mr surfacer etc...but for me when I have tried those ways they always shrink or don't fill properly because of air bubbles and you need to do 2-3 attempts. I prefer Zap a Gap or similar and dab a tiny bit in each hole with a sharped cocktail pic, tedious but not that long really because the glue dries so fast. By the time you have gone from one end of the wing to the other you can begin sanding, though careful on the thin leading and trailing edges. Even using cyano a few slip past the 'first fill' but a quick re-dab and the wings are pretty much identical to the Daco ones but fit better than they do! Now to do the rest of the wing parts.... Thanks for looking, hopefully for the next update I'll have some painting done. David Edited May 1, 2019 by mirageiv 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickyrich Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 RIVETS!! some nice detailing work in the camera and the rear fuselage section, i'm super impressed, fantastic work! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helios16v Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Nice work on the camera. Much much better than the Daco piece. 🍻 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted May 2, 2019 Author Share Posted May 2, 2019 20 hours ago, trickyrich said: RIVETS!! some nice detailing work in the camera and the rear fuselage section, i'm super impressed, fantastic work! Thanks Rich, I'll get some shots soon of some primer on the rear fuselage to see what you guys think under a layer of paint. I think I've looked at it too much now and need some impartial eyes to tell me if it looks overdone or not! 13 hours ago, helios16v said: Nice work on the camera. Much much better than the Daco piece. 🍻 Thanks Chris, I'm planning to borrow your idea for the 'glass lens' on top of the small film disc and see how it looks before I finalise anything, once it is glued in no turning back after the fuselage sides go together so I'll be interest on your take on it before I commit. Cheers, David 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelling minion Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Fantastic work David. Your camera looks so much better than the one in the Daco set, makes you wonder what they were thinking as they have clearly moulded the smaller camera. The rivets look very good to me, I agree that filling the rivets on the wings is a pain but the result is much more realistic than what Hasegawa give you. Your work on the back end has really made a difference, how exactly did you achieve the result you did? I'm really looking forward to seeing the paint go on! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) Thank you Craig! The real museum RF-104G aircraft I guess Daco used for conversion measurements actually had this smaller incorrect camera inside (I guess you can never trust museum airframes for accuracy!), there is a photo of it in the Daco book, not saying it as an excuse but maybe understandable. For me the Daco stuff is still an absolute gift for us 104 fans with so much extra variants and detail so I'm not complaining about this little slip (not saying you were either!) I wasn't planning on filling any rivets tbh, trying to keep things simple, then the usual 'oh I'll just do a little bit of sanding there, now here.....ah, hmm I might as well fill them all then' snowball thing happened again, typical of when I build a model, no wonder I only get through 1-2 a year. I used some 3M tape as a guide and some small homemade 'round sanding sticks', aka cocktail sticks with sandpaper glued to them, will get a pic to explain better. I think this area still needs some work and reduction hopefully this weekend I'll show the results. Edited May 3, 2019 by mirageiv 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewy Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Superb stressed skin effects David, and really well done camera details too , that will really work out I'm sure 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 2 hours ago, mirageiv said: I guess you can never trust museum airframes for accuracy! Never, they're good for hard facts where certain things go. Maybe instruments and antennas things like that. But colors and markings on the majority of museum bird id take with a healthy dose of wariness. Unless its known for sure that the plane was retired straight into the museum. Parked and never touched id be wary of trusting a museum bird. Same goes for restored warbirds. Your best bet is photo’s of the original article in service. Dennis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookenbacher Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 It's a treat to see another Starfighter build from you David, amazing details as always! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted May 5, 2019 Author Share Posted May 5, 2019 Thank you for the kind words fellas, glad you like the progress, I should have an update tomorrow hopefully! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndM Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 Stunning work ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted May 11, 2019 Author Share Posted May 11, 2019 (edited) On 5/8/2019 at 9:19 AM, BerndM said: Stunning work ! Thanks mate! I managed to get the fuselage closed up this weekend after sorting out the interior bits. First up with some luck I managed to separate most of the sidewalls from the Aires cockpit (from the prior mentioned scrapped build) and then repainted them. I did modify them a bit to fit the standard Hasegawa kit (Aires would have you hacking more of the Hase kit away if installed as intended), there are a few more Eduard etch handles and other little details to add but they will go on later to avoid damage. The bits of sidewall that will actually be seen were fortunately rescued in entirety, The seat has a base Mr Color semi gloss black layer but I'll finish painting that when other things are drying later on, you really don't see much inside when it is installed, the IP and some of the panels, that's about it! I'm hoping to have the canopy posable so I'll loose some details that should be on the cockpit sills but I'm happy enough with the compromise, the canopy explosive devices among others still need to go on here but later again to avoid damage. I drilled out the fuselage lights and replaced them with the kit supplied clear parts, apart from the awkwardly shaped light below which was formed from stretched clear sprue, polished and sprayed with Alclad, ideally I would have used foil as a backing but I couldn't get a strong enough glue bond. This was drilled through one of the locating pins and needs to be blended in proper later, I think the etch fret from the Eduard kit has a nice surface detail to go on top for this IIRC. I've been improving (hopefully!) the KS-87B camera this past week as the glue I used on the initial version came apart (N.B Don't use foil glue for plastic parts it seems) as I attempted to paint it making a mess and requiring a do over. This time I tired to make it more like the real thing using different parts that slide into each other. The lens face was done by first cutting some small discs of film negative of various colours then building up clear concave lens on top using 'Gauzy Glass Coat Agent.' About the only use I've ever found with this stuff are lenses and instrument dial glass, advertised for dipping canopies but it just peels off under masking when I tried. Anyways, it took several attempts to get two that were crystal clear with no tiny specs of dust or whatever inside, anything like this was really obvious and ruined the look. On the two or so colour photos I have of the camera the lens had a slightly green-blue cast so I went with the greenish backing. After paint and assembly we have this. When installed, through the window you just don't see anything but the very front. Scared of getting any glue on the inside of the clear window I glued it in using some little plasticard tabs, instead of the 'box' itself. Also a thin layer of Klear was brushed on the inside of the window as a deterrent to any potential glue fogging down the line, if it fogs when everything is all glued up I'm stuffed! Here it is installed, a small personal win is there are no tiny bits of dust inside! I found a pretty much perfect oval template on one of my scribing templates that I'll use to cut out a mask for the correct oval window shape. The outer surface has been buffed up a bit but still needs a good polishing to make it 100% clear. Last thing to check was the fit of the Aires exhaust, it is maybe a little bit overscale and needed quite a bit of thinning of the interior fuselage. I sanded it just enough that friction alone should hold it in place when I slide it in at the end. I've sprayed it a base aluminium and will try some chipping on it with subsequent darker sooty layers, these J79 exhausts really got very sooty. Finally I did some more on the rear stressed skin, I reduced it a lot and made it less uniform than before. I found it very hard to get a good photo of it so I increased the contrast on these to hopefully highlight the texture, Compared to a normal side on shot where it is barely noticeable, the super fine rivets are what I was going for tbh, I know they are marmite but I quite like the added 'interest.' The deeper ones I left are from the kit as is. Finally I feel like I'm getting somewhere, that's the thing with F-104 builds, once the fuselage is together the rest is pretty quick, just the wings and canopy and then it's pretty much primer time for the fun bit! Store wise I'm thinking of just having tip tanks for a slick look. These RF-104s often had all 4 tanks, just tip tanks or some training weapons under wing/fuselage, I'm not sure yet tbh. For a recon sortie though it would just be as much fuel as needed I guess. Thanks for looking, David Edited May 11, 2019 by mirageiv 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickyrich Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 gosh I love this build!!!! Your detailing work is superb, really good reference material for anyone planning to build a F-104 (including me). I love the "skin stressing" I've never tried that so it's something to remember for my build. Rivets......I sooo hate them or re-doing them but I can see they are really needed for this model. What paint are you going to use? To keep all the amazing detail you need to be using something that goes on super thin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted May 12, 2019 Author Share Posted May 12, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, trickyrich said: gosh I love this build!!!! Your detailing work is superb, really good reference material for anyone planning to build a F-104 (including me). I love the "skin stressing" I've never tried that so it's something to remember for my build. Rivets......I sooo hate them or re-doing them but I can see they are really needed for this model. What paint are you going to use? To keep all the amazing detail you need to be using something that goes on super thin. Thank you Rich for the kind words, happy you like the progress! I had thought about doing the stressed skin before but was cautious of messing things up, but after seeing this build: http://nabe3saviation.web.fc2.com/modelF104.html I thought I should have a go. The build in the link is probably the best Starfighter model out there, unbelievable details and I'm certainly 'borrowing' a few ideas from it! Paint wise I think I'm going to use a mix of Mr.Color Laquer and Xtracolor/Revell RAL matched enamels after some colour testing, Xtracolor is probably my most favourite paint because of the finish so I try to use it when I can. I know MRP is probably thinner than these and has the colours available but I had them on the rack already, I might still get some MRP though to try on this build. I did buy some new 'AK Real Color' for this build but after a little testing they were pretty rubbish, either way off what the colour should be or having useless coverage, I'll show what I mean in a future post, not a fan to say the least. Edited May 12, 2019 by mirageiv 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helios16v Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Looking to be a stunner. And a bang up job on that camera. That's going to look sooo sweet once you get the facing panel installed. Definitely makes my RF-4 look like the crude hack that it is. 🤣 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelling minion Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 David your F-104 builds just get better and better. The detail you have put into the camera makes it a little model in itself and the cockpit looks fantastic too. I think the stressed skin effect on the rear fuselage looks very good and will look great under a coat of paint. Akira's F-104 really is a work of art isn't it, he had it at Telford last year and showed me how he has made it so that all the main components are held together by magnets so that he can take it apart for ease of transportation, fantastic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickyrich Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 @mirageiv if you get the chance do try the Mr.Paint stuff, I reckon you'll be hooked after the first try. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dads203 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 MRP ... The best invention since the advent of the airbrush 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirageiv Posted May 12, 2019 Author Share Posted May 12, 2019 5 hours ago, helios16v said: Looking to be a stunner. And a bang up job on that camera. That's going to look sooo sweet once you get the facing panel installed. Definitely makes my RF-4 look like the crude hack that it is. 🤣 Thanks Chris, your tip on building the lens up with a glass substitute really worked well! I look forward to your RF-4E, I have the same subject planned in 1/32 (well I have the decals and some AM ready) someday! 4 hours ago, modelling minion said: David your F-104 builds just get better and better. The detail you have put into the camera makes it a little model in itself and the cockpit looks fantastic too. I think the stressed skin effect on the rear fuselage looks very good and will look great under a coat of paint. Akira's F-104 really is a work of art isn't it, he had it at Telford last year and showed me how he has made it so that all the main components are held together by magnets so that he can take it apart for ease of transportation, fantastic. Glad you like it Craig! It must have been some model to have seen in person, when you see one of that quality it firmly puts things into perspective! I'd like to use the magnet idea on some 1/32 builds to switch weaponry around, namely a Tornado GR1 with JP233's or 8x 1000lb bombs, so many modelling plans.... hopefully one day I'll get to it. hmm to MRP or not, if I took a picture of all the paints I already have you guys would think I'm mad buying another range! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dads203 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, mirageiv said: hmm to MRP or not, if I took a picture of all the paints I already have you guys would think I'm mad buying another range! Not when you try it.. it's a revelation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickyrich Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 I use to be all Model Masters (Testors, still like their Metalizer paints), then moved to acrylics, Tamiya & Mr. Hobby, then went to Vallejo Model Air (it peels too easily for me), some Lifecolor along the way (that stuff is horrible, even got some MiG Ammo stuff as well), then back to Mr. Hobby (have masses of the stuff), now moving to Mr. Paint. I have LOTS of paint I now just don't know what to do with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Really great detail here!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewy Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Most Impressive David so much attention being payed to the smallest of details, superb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted May 18, 2019 Share Posted May 18, 2019 Stunning work in every aspect. Inspiring stuff David 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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