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mirageiv

Marineflieger RF-104G

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Hi guys

 

After the all clear from Rich and Col I will enter a RF-104G from MFG2 for this GB. A little intro for the particular version I'm modelling follows below.

 

In 1975 the Marineflieger requested improved capabilities over the standard baseline German Navy and Air Force RF-104G Starfighter, this basic version never really lived up to requirements and presented a distinct recon capability gap. The Air Force for a while had the RF-4E Phantom lined up as their RF-104G replacement but the Marineflieger, much shorter on spends, decided to produce an upgraded version developed with MBB until the more capable Tornado could take over all Navy tasks. This 'new' RF-104G included a larger recon bulge below the fuselage containing both a low-altitude flight camera and infrared camera (night operations), additionally a small window appeared on the port fuselage side containing the excellent KS87B side oblique camera allowing long distance ( circa 60km at 1000ft) spying. Very handy for checking out what the Russian Navy etc was up to from a more pleasant distance! These unique RF-104Gs were also fitted with the AN/ALE-40 chaff and flare protection system mounted either side of the rear fuselage and retained full weapon capability such as the Anti-Shipping role using the Kormoran I missile, maybe the most multirole F-104 variant Germany ever operated. 

 

The main ingredients,

 

L1180093

 

I wanted to build something relatively simple and fuss free so the Hasegawa (Eduard rebox) Starfighter fits the bill perfectly, probably my most favourite kit ever. I'll be using the conversion parts in the DACO set, Astra decals and some other aftermarket from my 'F-104 stash'. Fortunately for me (and one of the reasons I went for this subject) the RF conversion isn't too taxing, only the side oblique camera window will require a bit of modifying to the base kit, well that is the theory and we all know how that goes! 

 

A while ago I luckily stumbled upon the F-40 Marineflieger F-104 book on ebay, I'd never heard of the F-40 series before. Is has to be the definitive Marineflieger Starfighter book, my German is basic but the detail and specifics of Marine F-104 operations is fantastic, well worth the purchase if you are into Marine F-104s and can find one! For instance the information and pictures given on the special RF-104s alone is fantastic which should help out plenty in this build.

 

 

L1180094

 

 

Thanks for looking, hopefully I'll make a start soon :) .

 

David

 

 

 

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Nice project!

Did bot know about this advanced RFs!

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1 hour ago, exdraken said:

Nice project!

Did bot know about this advanced RFs!

 

Thanks Werner, yes they are quite a rare version of the F-104 and were not in service for so long before the Tornado took over.

 

Here is a nice picture of one and what I will work towards: http://www.916-starfighter.de/Large/2433.htm

 

 

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Nice!

This one even served on in Greece obviously!

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David builds an F-104, and in Marineflieger  markings too! Whats not to like!!

If this is anything like your previous F-104 builds it will be stunning.

I am definitely along for the ride and really looking forward to it already.

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Welcome to the GB with a cool subject David :D 

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Nice choice David. A 104 with a few little differences. As others say above what’s not to like!

 

Will be pulling up a chair and watching with interest.

 

James

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Welcome along David, I'm really glad you showed up with a Starfighter, I do love these aircraft.

 

I pretty much have all the same bits as you have (mines the Hasegawa boxing), and I have those publications as well. The F-40 series of books is a must if you're building any of the modern Luftwaffe aircraft, I've got quite a few of them, all 7 in the F-104 series. Only problem for me is they're in German....and I struggle even with english!

 

Good luck with this build, I think there'll be a few following this one (it may give me motivation to plan my one), I do look froward to seeing her in the gallery.

 

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17 hours ago, modelling minion said:

David builds an F-104, and in Marineflieger  markings too! Whats not to like!!

If this is anything like your previous F-104 builds it will be stunning.

I am definitely along for the ride and really looking forward to it already.

 

Yup another Marineflieger F-104! :D After doing a few already there is still an RF-104 gap in my collection so it was a no brainer on my part, glad to have you along Craig!

 

17 hours ago, Col. said:

Welcome to the GB with a cool subject David :D 

Thank you Col, I hope you enjoy the build!

 

17 hours ago, franky boy said:

Nice choice David. A 104 with a few little differences. As others say above what’s not to like!

 

Will be pulling up a chair and watching with interest.

 

James

 

Thanks James, yes the DACO set if used fully can cover so many different variants with little differences as you know and Marine F-104s always seem to well liked by us modellers, I think it has something to do with the Dayglo tanks!

 

13 hours ago, trickyrich said:

Welcome along David, I'm really glad you showed up with a Starfighter, I do love these aircraft.

 

I pretty much have all the same bits as you have (mines the Hasegawa boxing), and I have those publications as well. The F-40 series of books is a must if you're building any of the modern Luftwaffe aircraft, I've got quite a few of them, all 7 in the F-104 series. Only problem for me is they're in German....and I struggle even with english!

 

Good luck with this build, I think there'll be a few following this one (it may give me motivation to plan my one), I do look froward to seeing her in the gallery.

 

 

Thank you Rich. I have another F-104 F-40 book (with 3 retirement schemes on the cover) and an early RF-4E one (nearly entered an RF-4E for this GB), absolutely agree they have to be the definitive texts on post war German aircraft, so much detail and lots of pictures you just can't find anywhere else. I admit I struggle with a fair few words, especially the ones that contain about 2000 letters but the corresponding pictures look nice! A shame they never produced a Tornado series though.

 

Thanks for looking,

 

David. 

 

 

 

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mmm why use multiple works when one huge one will do!

 

I love this tile "Eine Luftfahrtgeschichtliche Dokumentation" - An Aviation Historical Documentation, it's the title of my book on the He-177, 277, 274

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Posted (edited)

Hi guys, first little update!

 

I've decided to make full use of the 25% rule here and use a few parts mostly completed from another mothballed Starfighter build, hopefully it is <25%! I think it was the 70's Nato vs Warsaw Pact GB back in 2017 (already 2 years ago crikey!), on one of my builds the clear gloss layer cracked all over the place (a bad bottle of Johnsons clear was the culprit after later testing). After making a right mess trying to strip the paint off and accepting defeat,  I just left it in a box until now where I decided to rescue what I could and use it on this build, live and learn I guess.

 

The main part being the Aires cockpit, IIRC I spent a lot of time trying my best to paint the micro details so I didn't want to let it go to waste. I have not managed to save the sidewalls in entirety but will see what I can salvage off them or use parts from the Eduard etch fret for the sides but I haven't got round to that bit yet.

 

L1180142

 

The rear cockpit area had a special control box added for the chaff/flare system of these late Marine Starfighters. A close up of this box isn't even in the DACO or F40 books so I did my best by finding close-ish photos of this area online and then winged it, looks about right which will do just fine.

 

For those interested in it, see this picture from airliners.net for the box: https://www.airliners.net/photo/Germany-Navy/Lockheed-MBB-F-104G-Starfighter/504602/L?qsp=eJwtjEEKwjAQRe8ya4Uqtkp3egFdeIEh%2BWowNmEyoKH07ibR3f/vwZvJhEnx0WuOoJESWMyDVhRZ%2BJVonImdeDdVue2Hfl/cE/kdxBZLt/Wm2xWUgugpF2BZcTQGUWH//CwWUhWSaeV7i9UJufzeoUasS9Fzq0DZeVqWL0VcMuY%3D

 

L1180141

 

I have three resin ejection seats to choose from. Another little detail about these late German F-104s, the headbox on top of the seat changed to a rectangular shape. From left to right we have the Aires seat, Eduard (wrong headbox and already a little modified) and True Details (TD). The TD seat seems to be a mix of them both, the Aires one looks a bit skinny for my taste and I'm hopeless at etch belts so I'll use the TD seat and add a few other bits to it to make it more busy. 

 

L1180105

 

The TD seat is maybe a bit overscale and needed a lot of sanding to get in (right seat unmodified), the O2 bottle had to be removed so it could fit in but will be replaced from a spare injection seat from something. None of these lower seat details/fiddles will be seen in reality, the F-104 cockpit is tiny.

 

L1180106

 

After a test fit, it looks pretty good. The sidewall detail and a few other bits need to be added but we are getting there! Oh I should mention here I will have the canopy posable to get the best of both worlds, the rocket like clean shape of a closed up F-104 but also the ability for opening the main canopy to check all the nice Aires details. 

 

L1180135

 

Now, probably the focal point of this model, the side oblique camera. I found a nice close up pic in my Klaus Kropf book which helped align where the cut should go. Assuming the Hasegawa panel lines are accurate (which they look to be) I lined it up with the small (red) rectangular panel on the right and the vertical panel line on the left. 

 

L1180101 copy

 

After duly doing the measure thrice, cut once method, I still messed it up a little (doh!) and required a small plastic shim to get a tight fit. I'm leaving it for a few days to cure off before I clean it up (no ghost seams) and blend it in proper with superglue, then I will polish everything up to get a real clear window. There seems to be a two types of camera installed in this window, the DACO book shows another variant opposed to the one in the Kropft book and this is the one provided in the Daco F-104 update set. It is a little bit simplified for my taste so I will go ahead and detail it up to try and make it look more like a camera. 

 

L1180149

 

On one of my previous F-104 builds I used the gun cover provided in the Daco set but luckily I had a Hasegawa boxing with a resin insert, glued in and surfacer applied ready for blending in. The recon F-104s replaced the gun with an extra fuel tank for a little bit more range.

 

L1180147

 

Some more sub assemblies on the way, I'm using intake covers so I haven't bothered doing anything with the intake interiors. Now to probably get close to the 25% rule limit I'm also going to use previously assembled fuel tanks, they will need the paint stripping though first but it will save some time as IIRC they were a real PITA to assemble nicely, one of the less talked about difficult bits of Hasegawa F-104s. I'll also add some raised weld seems I think too with stretch sprue. 

 

L1180151

 

Last thing, the canopies have been dipped in Pledge Floor Care, wow super clear, if it wasn't for the canopy frame it hardly looks like there is even a clear part there! Kudos to Hasegawa that after 1000s of F-104 boxings their canopies are still crystal clear. 

 

 

L1180153

 

 

I think that is all for now, thanks for looking,

 

David. 

 

(Also btw, this is one busy GB, so many awesome entries to watch!) 

 

 

 

 

Edited by mirageiv

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Excellent work David, exactly what we have come to expect from you, a masterclass in how to build an accurate Marineflieger RF-104.

The work you did on the Aires pit is amazing, no wonder you didn't want to not use it.

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Good to see your work didn't go to waste!

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Excellent work. 

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wow that cockpit looks great............pity its over the 25% rule!! :nono:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

..... haha just joking!! :D  

 

 

Nice save using those old bits, the cockpit is a real gem, beautifully done. I will be watching as I have a F-104 and full Daco set in the stash and I really must build a Luftwaffe Starfighter one day.

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On 4/14/2019 at 5:39 PM, Hockeyboy76 said:

Great work, past and present. 

 

On 4/14/2019 at 6:08 PM, Blitz23 said:

Good to see your work didn't go to waste!

 

On 4/14/2019 at 6:12 PM, BerndM said:

Excellent work. 

 

Thanks chaps!

 

19 hours ago, trickyrich said:

wow that cockpit looks great............pity its over the 25% rule!! :nono:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

..... haha just joking!! :D  

 

 

Nice save using those old bits, the cockpit is a real gem, beautifully done. I will be watching as I have a F-104 and full Daco set in the stash and I really must build a Luftwaffe Starfighter one day.

 

Thanks Rich, phew, I kinda summed up resin pit + tanks </= 20% ish maybe, but I was a little concerned I was stretching it! My build pace is glacial atm so any helping hand I'm game if it fits the rules. I look forward to your F-104 when you do it! (Oh look at that, there seems to be a Lockheed GB going on atm :whistle:

 

On 4/14/2019 at 4:24 PM, modelling minion said:

Excellent work David, exactly what we have come to expect from you, a masterclass in how to build an accurate Marineflieger RF-104.

The work you did on the Aires pit is amazing, no wonder you didn't want to not use it.

 

Cheers Craig, I don't know about masterclass but I'll try build a nice one! 

 

Cheers,

 

David. 

 

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The previously done parts gets you off to a nice start David.

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Looks like we get here some sort of an ultimate Starfighter.

Looking forward to see the Daco set "in action"

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I'll be watching this one.  

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A little food for thought.  You can make a really easy 3D camera lens by drilling out the center portion of the camera lens, painting, and using an artificial water product to create the convex lens.

 

I did this using a Woodland Scenics product.  It took a few applications to get the convex shape as it shrinks a bit as it drys.

 

DSCF2219.JPG

DSCF2220.JPG

 

This is going to be a stunner when you're done regardless.  Loving it.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, helios16v said:

A little food for thought.  You can make a really easy 3D camera lens by drilling out the center portion of the camera lens, painting, and using an artificial water product to create the convex lens.

 

I did this using a Woodland Scenics product.  It took a few applications to get the convex shape as it shrinks a bit as it drys.

 

DSCF2219.JPG

DSCF2220.JPG

 

This is going to be a stunner when you're done regardless.  Loving it.

 

Thanks you for the kind words chaps! IIRC I spent weeks painting that cockpit last time Col so I'm happy I was able to use it :) 

 

Helios--Those lenses look very nice indeed, I have some 'Gauzy Glass' gloss  (called something like that) that may be very helpful to do this. I haven't got around to sorting out the camera yet but food for thought here, thanks for the help.  

 

I'm trying to ascertain atm if indeed two types of camera were used for the side looking window (Jürgen do you have any advice if reading?), my references suggest only one. The DACO reference book shows a close up of the new side window with one type of camera, but this is from a preserved museum airframe which can botch things and it looks to me like they just put one of the smaller, under fuselage type cameras in the side window and not the larger original KS-87 which has a much bigger lens. The problem is, this smaller camera is then the one reproduced in plastic with the DACO update set, so I think I will have to scratch build the correct camera (KS-87), every other photo I have of proper operational aircraft from other sources shows a much larger camera than that of the DACO photo and plastic part. In post 12 of the thread the difference between the DACO part and real thing is distinct. I'm not sure and I could be wrong as maybe other cameras could also be used in this window so the DACO part is correct. 

 

David. 

 

 

Edited by mirageiv

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Hello David,

the SOC camera installed in the 23+09 at Wernigerode museum is the (wrong) Oude Delft type. AFAIK this type was used by the Netherlands Air Force recce pod and in the old Luftwaffe RF-104G´s bottom fuselage housing.  The one for the Marineflieger SOC (Side Oblique Camera) is indeed the KS-87B, also installed in the German RF-4E.

 

BTW: Some interesting (and funny) stuff to read about the "Eastern Express" recce missions of MFG 2: Klick

 

Excellent work David, cant wait to see more. :)

 

Kind regards,

Jürgen

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17 hours ago, JayBee said:

Hello David,

the SOC camera installed in the 23+09 at Wernigerode museum is the (wrong) Oude Delft type. AFAIK this type was used by the Netherlands Air Force recce pod and in the old Luftwaffe RF-104G´s bottom fuselage housing.  The one for the Marineflieger SOC (Side Oblique Camera) is indeed the KS-87B, also installed in the German RF-4E.

 

BTW: Some interesting (and funny) stuff to read about the "Eastern Express" recce missions of MFG 2: Klick

 

Excellent work David, cant wait to see more. :)

 

Kind regards,

Jürgen

 

Jürgen to the rescue (again)! Thank you for this information, your knowledge on the subject is incredible, I guess I will have to make the correct KS-87B camera then :) . The link is great also, the Blinder story says it all about the F-104's low speed capability! 

 

Thanks mate!

 

David

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