Phantom FGR2 colour questions

[Lord Riot]

9 minutes ago, Dazza said:

The Spey produced more power than the J79 (all versions), 20,515lbs in burner as opposed to 17,900lbs for the J79 (-10/-17). As regards manoeuvrability, all hard wing F-4s were pretty much the same, the exception being the slatted wing F-4s (E/F/G/S and a few late build RF-4Es) which were quite a bit more agile.

 

-Daz

 

I remember reading somewhere that the extra drag from the bigger rear end to accommodate the Speys actually made the RAF Phantoms a bit slower, is that correct?

[Wez]

17 minutes ago, Lord Riot said:

 

I remember reading somewhere that the extra drag from the bigger rear end to accommodate the Speys actually made the RAF Phantoms a bit slower, is that correct?

I'd read slower but quicker, e.g it accelerated quicker but ran out of steam at which point the J-79 engined jets caught up and raced ahead.

 

Interesting thread this, partly because it shows a lot of modellers don't understand the way the RAF works, but then again, unless you'd been in the RAF, why would you?

 

The official colour scheme promulgated by the Mod leaflet is just that, the official colour scheme, to paint it in anything else would be a deviation which would require authorisation e.g.  at the very least an ADF (Green Line) for not conforming to published configuration.

 

The whole point of the scheme was to present an even appearance from all angles, this is why it's difficult to make out the different colours.  Likewise, an in service jet is going to get pretty grubby which from a distance is going to blend the colours.

 

There's no surprise to me that plenty of ex-Toom Lineys couldn't make out the colour differences especiall with the grubiness of the airframes, lighting conditions etc

[Dazza]

1 hour ago, Lord Riot said:

 

I remember reading somewhere that the extra drag from the bigger rear end to accommodate the Speys actually made the RAF Phantoms a bit slower, is that correct?

Yes, the wider intakes and wider and deeper rear fuselage needed for the Spey installation caused a lot of drag which impacted on what should have been, on paper at least, the best performing versions of the F-4. Ultimately, top speed was less than J79 engined variants as was general performance at higher altitudes, the J79 was also very resistant to throttle slams/abuse and had faster burner light up. Where the Spey came into it's own was at low to medium altitudes, low level acceleration and take-off performance was better than the J79 and range was marginally better and the Spey produced less smoke in the military power range.

The Spey also suffered from poor reliability and serviceability for several years after introduction to service, turbine disc failures being the main problem, at one stage the shortage of serviceable engines effectively shut down OCU flying with the serviceable engine supply from Rolls Royce being prioritzed for the frontline squadrons. The Plessey Solent GTS was also fond of spewing it's guts out on occasion too!

That being said, the F-4 in all it's guises, is still my personal number one and, arguably, the finest jet Interceptor/Fighter/Bomber/Recce/Weasel/ ever conceived and built!

 

-Daz

Edited April 4, 2019 by Dazza

[whiskey]

I remember a story my old man told me a few times about how he was going through the process of deciding what service to fly in after college. While he was wanting to fly F-4's in the USAF he got test fitted in the Martin Baker seat and found out he was too tall! At 6'6" he would have smashed both his legs upon ejection from the cockpit. Ended up choosing to fly AH-1 Cobras with the Army and the rest is history.

 

The F-4 has to be a very very close second place for me, with the Tomcat at number one (I'm a 'Top Gun' generation baby).

[canberra kid]

5 hours ago, Lord Riot said:

Thanks Iain. The radome must be an optical illusion, I sprayed it exactly the same as the rest! Now you mention it though, perhaps I should change it to slightly darker. Medium sea grey perhaps?

A note on the radome from the AP,

 

John

[canberra kid]

If you fancy a paint shop diorama?

 

John

[Jabba]

Some more freshly painted Phantoms from Saints.

When doing the major service on the aircraft below we found the data plate, finding out that it was 20 yrs old so when we did the delivery flight we got a cake with 20 candles on it and also inviting the aircrew to partake.

 

 

But how would you like to go flying in this or attempt to do this scheme. This oddly was ready for air test before it went to paint(paint being set in stone for a certain time ) and as the station Nav was on leave one of our longer serving (at Saints) team members got to go for a fly.

 

 

The same aircraft after paint.

 

 

A different aircraft.

 

 

Our fly past.

 

 

[Lord Riot]

Phantastic photos!

 

When I was a kid I would've given anything for a ride in a Phantom!

[Simon]

Hello

 

I'm busy with the Airfix Phantom FGR.2, doing it as XV415 from 1986 in air defence grey and have a couple of questions:

 

Would the interior faces of the airbrakes and the insides of the upper and lower engine vent doors be red or pink at that date?

 

And was the inner edge of the wing dog tooth pink too? I'm sure I've seen a photo of one with a pink inner edge somewhere...

 

Thanks

Simon

[canberra kid]

2 minutes ago, Simon said:

Hello

 

I'm busy with the Airfix Phantom FGR.2, doing it as XV415 from 1986 in air defence grey and have a couple of questions:

 

Would the interior faces of the airbrakes and the insides of the upper and lower engine vent doors be red or pink at that date?

 

And was the inner edge of the wing dog tooth pink too? I'm sure I've seen a photo of one with a pink inner edge somewhere...

 

Thanks

Simon

Hi Simon

 

According to the AP I have they are red, perhaps they may have been painted Pink at a later date, but I can say for sure. 

 

John

[iainpeden]

@canberra kid and @Simon. I have the chance to get close to XV474 at DX on a regular basis and her air brakes and dog-tooth are pink; however I think it's a case that there is a light overspray of LAG on the original red rather than being painted pink as the finish is certainly not car showroom quality!

[Simon]

Thanks for the replies John and Iain. Think I'll go for red for all the relevant bits.

 

I did notice that the Phantom at Hendon seems to have one of the lower engine vent door interiors red, and other what appears to be yellow - primer maybe?

 

Starboard door yellow:  https://www.flickr.com/photos/mosh70/7739236570/

 

Port door red:  https://www.flickr.com/photos/52287882@N05/11948884053/

 

Simon

[iainpeden]

I'll have a look at the vent doors on 474 next time I am at DX

[canberra kid]

@Simon

This is one of the the drawings, red is number 5 

John

[Phone Phixer]

Time is making the memory a bit foggy on everything. The insides of the airbrakes and aux air doors were red. The rear half of the underside left aux air door had a bare metal plate, protection from the starter exhaust.

The dogtooth I'm not so sure about. I can't remember them being bright red and obvious. I think they were pink like the roundels.

[Jabba]

23 hours ago, Phone Phixer said:

Time is making the memory a bit foggy on everything. The insides of the airbrakes and aux air doors were red. The rear half of the underside left aux air door had a bare metal plate, protection from the starter exhaust.

The dogtooth I'm not so sure about. I can't remember them being bright red and obvious. I think they were pink like the roundels.

My hazy memory too, plus the outer edges of the ailerons and flaps were also pink.

[stever219]

On 3/24/2019 at 10:17 PM, bar side said:

FGR2 with no tail top antenna or side window periscope?  Interesting.  Twin stick?

No.  The twin-stick FGR. 2s all had serials in the range XT891 - ‘928 (of which XT915 - ‘928 were cancelled).  As far as I know there were no twin-stick FG.1s.