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Phantom FGR2 colour questions


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Trying to use the walk around on here & other sites to figure out the colour of the inside of some bits.  Take the aux intakes on the fuselage sides - white or red in the recess and the inside of the door?  I am guessing white in the pit but red inside the door.  Same for the airbrake behind the main undercarriage.  

 

Now, the main wing colour for a grey later paint job.  Should be lighter on the body and wing tip sections, and darker on the main section.  But looking at some of Ian Black’s lovely colour shots it seems the main wing looks a bit darker, the leading edge slightly lighter and the sides of the body adjoining the wing also about wing colour while the main fuselage is a bit lighter.  Thinking of priming in different shades and then doing a single top coat rather than doing different colours

 

any advice appreciated

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Main upper fuselage, tail, stabilators and upper outer wing panels - Barley Grey

 

Upper inner wing sections - Medium Sea Grey

 

lower surfaces - Light Aircraft Grey

 

Airbrake door - red

 

Lower aux’ door - red

 

Upper fuselage aux’ door recesses - red

 

regards

Andrew

Edited by TEZ
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11 minutes ago, TEZ said:

Main upper fuselage, tail, stabilators and upper outer wing panels - Barley Grey

 

Upper inner wing sections - Medium Sea Grey

 

lower surfaces - Light Aircraft Grey

 

Airbrake door - red

 

Lower aux’ door - red

 

Upper fuselage aux’ door recesses - red

 

regards

Andrew

Thanks Andrew - doors red & recesses white? Or both red on the upper aux doors?

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I worked on them for 3 years and never noticed any great difference in colour of the upper surfaces. Under all the muck and boot marks it was just grey! Certainly not the variation of MSG and barley grey.

I think your idea of one colour (barley grey) with slight variation in shading would be spot on.

The upper aux air doors would be red on the inside of the doors. The fuselage cavity went into the engine bay, so just a dark metallic colour or black would do, I think. At rest with power off they were only open the slightest bit anyway, not enough to really see into.

The lower aux air doors were wide open when at rest, follow the same colouring. Airbrakes were red on the inner face of the airbrake, white in the wing recess.

As a basic rule, it was the movable part that was painted red.

 

Rob.

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6 hours ago, Phone Phixer said:

I worked on them for 3 years and never noticed any great difference in colour of the upper surfaces. Under all the muck and boot marks it was just grey! Certainly not the variation of MSG and barley grey.

I think your idea of one colour (barley grey) with slight variation in shading would be spot on.

The upper aux air doors would be red on the inside of the doors. The fuselage cavity went into the engine bay, so just a dark metallic colour or black would do, I think. At rest with power off they were only open the slightest bit anyway, not enough to really see into.

The lower aux air doors were wide open when at rest, follow the same colouring. Airbrakes were red on the inner face of the airbrake, white in the wing recess.

As a basic rule, it was the movable part that was painted red.

 

Rob.

 

I've always "known' the wings were two tone but after your post I went on Google images to find a photograph showing it and failed.

 

There seems to be a general lack of top-down photos of grey RAF Phantoms but from what's left one would assume the wings and fuselage were all one colour.

 

I did find this:

http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Shefftim/media/f4s.jpg.html

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Two FGR.2s trialled a one gray scheme (Light Aircraft Gray), it wasn’t effective and led to the introduction of a three grey scheme. 

If you’re wanting to do a well used aircraft the greys will merge under all the weathering, natural and manmade.

Regards

Andrew

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7 hours ago, Phone Phixer said:

I think your idea of one colour (barley grey) with slight variation in shading would be spot on.

Very much in agreement Rob. IMHO, the subtleties of colour differences on these sorts of aircraft, certainly in this scale, are often such that very slight tonal variations work extremely well. When I colour match any colour, I might start with the "official" FS or BS references, see what paint manufacturers offer and then tone down anyway to suit my eye. The adage of if it looks right is a good one to follow!

 

Terry

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1 hour ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

I've always "known' the wings were two tone but after your post I went on Google images to find a photograph showing it and failed.

 

That's the whole point of countershading - the area's that catch more natural light are slightly darker, giving the impression of an idential allover shade from a distance. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre 

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:ditto:  Hi Barside,

I concur with all Phone Phixer’s comments above.

I was on 29(F) and 64(R)(228 OCU), and I also never noticed any great difference in the colour of the upper surfaces.

Again, your idea of one colour with slight variations would be spot on.

I attach a link to show the best shot of one of our old Kites from above. I hope this helps!

http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/2015/09/f-4m-xv424.html

The dihedral of the starboard outer wing catches the light and gives the appearance of a much lighter colour - However, the port outer wing is exactly the same colour - but shows no difference in shade to the adjacent inner wing.

I look forward to viewing your finished aircraft. :thumbsup:

Edited by 29Triplex
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Julien,

We hadn't got time to keep 'em clean - because we were too busy being Mean !

       With XXX being the    'Spearhead of NATO' !  (Bionic Budgie)

Only RAF Phantom Phixers (of the early '80's era)will understand/appreciate this 😁

Oh, those were the Good Old Days ! 😎.

Mercifully, RAF Hendon can give her the love and attention she (XV424) deserves!

Edited by 29Triplex
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18 minutes ago, bar side said:

FGR2 with no tail top antenna or side window periscope?  Interesting.  Twin stick?

Merely the original configuration , they were all like that when delivered in green/grey camouflage and some survived into the grey before being modified.

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3 minutes ago, Des said:

Merely the original configuration , they were all like that when delivered in green/grey camouflage and some survived into the grey before being modified.

That interesting.  I know the original fit was about in grey green, but I had thought they had all been converted by the time they went all over grey.  Learn something new every day

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4 hours ago, Julien said:

Very grubby!

Yes. when I said muck and boot marks, I wasn't thinking THAT grubby!! 😂

 

Mind you. I was on 19(F) Sqn and we had one jet that went for the 100FI wing butt strap mod by BAe. They rejected it cos it leaked too much. Now that was impressive for a Phantom!!!!!!!

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If I weathered and grubbied one like the photo and entered it at a contest, nobody would believe me unless I provided a photo! How the heck would you duplicate that appearance in 1/72? Thanks for the photo, John!

Mike

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On 3/24/2019 at 6:58 PM, canberra kid said:

bmXzSc.jpg

 

...against that surface you can see why Hemp caught on for the heavies!

 

Lack of periscope doesn't surprise me, but lack of fin mounted RWR and ILS aerials does for that time period.

Also worth noting in that shot is that I appears to be carrying ex Navy underwing tanks.

Edited by 71chally
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Here are some shots of XV424 at Hendon (under artificial lighting) and XV474 at Duxford (Daylight coming through windows).

Interesting to compare the Grey on the Hendon Phantom inboard wing to the Greys on the missile pylon and rails and external tank and with the fuselage.

I've always thought that there didn't look to be much difference to my eyes, looking at the aircraft overall from a way off, especially the later 74 Sqn machines (were they painted differently?).

Wouldn't it be likely that the sun fades the paint after time, especially on the upper surfaces?

Z5Tg7y.jpg

 

WvkIKU.jpg

 

SA2y3M.jpg

 

IgsDwA.jpg

 

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ZszI6Y.jpg

 

FhA7rE.jpg

 

Included this one for the lower aux air doors (red)

PmeCAW.jpg

 

VmORa6.jpg

 

HTH Bob.

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